New Liberty Policy

Discussion in 'Merchant Marine Academy - USMMA' started by kp2001, Jul 30, 2009.

  1. kp2001

    kp2001 USMMA Alumnus

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    The liberty policy has been posted on the parents page:

    http://www.usmma.edu/parents/Ac Yr 2010 LIBERTY.pdf

    I'd be planting my butt in the tutor's office (10hrs of tutor=1 extra long weekend). Heck each week you could potentially earn another long weekend, but in reality more like every two weeks you earn one.

    Not so sure I'm a fan of the entire policy as it's currently written.
     
  2. zonker

    zonker Member

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    If I am reading your post correctly, it is BEING the tutor earns you the extra long weekend, not GETTING tutored.
     
  3. KPmid719

    KPmid719 Member

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    You must BE a tutor for ten hours, not attend at tutor.
     
  4. kp2001

    kp2001 USMMA Alumnus

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    Ah, you are correct. I totally misread that initially.
     
  5. TX2KP

    TX2KP Member

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    KP2001, if it was the other way around, I probably wouldn't want to be a tutor :shake:

    BTW, I didn't realize Jonas Brothers lived around here. I could give many other tips and references to Frisco TX though :yllol:
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2009
  6. jasperdog

    jasperdog Member

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    Interesting policy, and as a parent and alumnus I certainly support the basic obvious objective of raising the focus, awareness, etc. on academic achievement.

    However the last bullet on the last chart so clearly shows a lack of understanding of the basic core values of a Kings Pointer, I have to wonder how/if the two Annapolis grads who wrote this and approved it will ever really understand Kings Pointers. In the world most of we all live in when we graduate we celebrate current actions vice past achievements (Acta Non Verba); we celebrate our individuality and rejoice when individuality and innovation enables us to create a discriminator in the marketplace. As such, most of us would wonder why, if we don't want to wear our Silver or Gold Star, for reasons ranging from modesty, to we don't like having to explain what it means when "real soldiers" get ribbons and honors for going into harms way, not risking paper cuts while turning pages studying in saftey on Long Island, we would be forced to do so in order to get the benefits and privlelages our accomplishments supposedly earned us. Finally - I'm pretty sure a mid's knows which of his/her classmates are at the top of their class if that's something they aspire to...
     
  7. KPMum2012

    KPMum2012 Parent

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    I agree with jasperdog on Kpers not wearing their awards. It took our daughter until the end of Spring tri to finally acquire and put on her uniform the ribbon she earned for her score on the PFA at the beginning of Winter tri. I think everyone else in her company was more excited about the ribbon than her. She was just mad she didn't completely max the situps.

    As for the new lib policy, I know it had athletes unhappy. By the time they get back from a TM on Saturday, it's too late to go out. And I know our DD tutored friends last year. But I suspect that it was an informal arrangement and wouldn't be recognized for purposes of lib. I can't see her bothering to go through whatever the process is to be approved as a tutor.
     
  8. Proud KP Dad

    Proud KP Dad Member

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    Its just this kind of policy plus other changes @ KP that current upperclass :thumbdown: not so happy with the leadership there. Ask your DS and DD what kind of reception the Admiral received yesterday.
     
  9. Is2day4him

    Is2day4him Member

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    it's ok though, because being happy is a choice. and apparently we're all like ADM Stockdale when he was a POW in Viet Nam(this was actually said to us, BTW). that's the explaination the regiment received yesterday for why we should be happy with less liberty and the aforementioned regulations of wearing awards, etc.

    as jasperdog said, the only people you really see that wear all their ribbons either fall into one of two groups (with exceptions, of course).
    1) tools--they think that their honor plebe and reserve officer corps ribbons actually mean something and try to make themselves look better than they are.
    or 2) regimentally focused people-- these guys typically have some form of reg. position (or are trying to get it later in their KP career) where having their ribbons and awards is necessary/highly suggested for the position.

    however, i've known many KPers throughout my time here that have had several, legitimate military honors and awards that wear nothing over their pocket but the USNR eagle.
    a pretty common viewpoint here is that if you're legit, people will know it by watching you, not seeing your rack of brightly colored ribbons. many would even say that wearing the ribbons is not highly suggested, as it makes you appear to be a tool.

    for whatever it's worth, the overall impression that i'm getting from this whole situation is that the regiment is rather upset and it'll be interesting to see how we get this resolved.
     
  10. doktrmom

    doktrmom Member

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    focus on academics

     
  11. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    Just an observation based on being pretty familiar with at least two of the Academies (USMA and USMMA) and an Alumn and Dad of VMI- the Cadets are always "pretty upset" with any change that the Supe or Commandant implements because it either is perceived as:
    -taking away the prerogatives of the first class & making things softer for the new 4th class,
    -is overly involved in Corps affairs,
    -is treating them "like children",
    -is generally making things overly strict,
    -or is abandoning long held traditions etc. etc. etc...
    My advice to parents is take what your Mid/Cadet tells you with a lot of grains of salt and keep in mind that underneath the uniform is a 20 year old who is looking at things from a very narrow perspective while the Superintendant/ Commandant has a much longer history of administering military people and units and just might have a little more perspective than that cadet. Not to say he is always making a perfect call but the presence of grumbling on the part of the Corps/Brigade/ Regiment doesn't indicate that a policy is good bad or otherwise.
     
  12. Is2day4him

    Is2day4him Member

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    very true bruno,
    however the one thing that i can say about these new policies is that the way things are being approached has taken the motivation away from a lot of people within the regiment. a lot of the perks that we were told we'd see as seniors are now gone and we're back at sophomore standards. if that doesn't deflate a kids sails i don't know what does.
    not saying it's good or bad, just making the overall feeling of the regiment known.
     
  13. 2013Parent

    2013Parent Member

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    Post twice referenced the word "tool" in a way I did not understand.....here is what I found on the internet:

    "Tool - 1. a person who is impressionable, easily used by others; LOSER; WANNA-BE. ("That guy is such a tool. He would do anything to be accepted.") "
     
  14. Is2day4him

    Is2day4him Member

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    sorry i didn't clarify the terminology.
    that definition is about how it's used here, but with the added implication that they're easily used by people with any sort of position in the reg. and don't treat classmates as they should.
     
  15. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    Well- it's good to see that at least the terminology hasn't changed- the nonwebster's dictionary definition of a "Tool" is still the same as it was in 1976 anyway:rolleyes:
     
  16. Navy1981

    Navy1981 Member

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    Personally I think there is something that is being missed in regards to this subject. As a Naval officer with 28 years (and still counting) active service I agree that there is always someone who is not happy when new rules are implemented. And I admit that is particularly hard when a group such as the seniors of class of 2010 who are not going to receive the same benefits/liberties of the previous seniors.

    But in an interview with the Superindentant back in March 2009, he stated that he felt that too many mids were failing due to poor academic performance and the days of being dismissed to attend community college for the remainder of the academic year and then returning the following year to pick up where you left off were over. He stressed that the Academy's mission is to produce the best Officers and that he felt the existing liberty policy adversely affected academic performance. We'll have to see after this year if his suspicions are confirmed.

    This is my point. The Academy is training young men and women to be Officers in the Merchant Marine and the US Naval Reserve. The Superintendant is charged with meeting that mission. However, one thing that any good officer must learn to do is to follow orders and these are the orders of the current Superindendant. And although our DS/DD may not be happy with them, they must follow them. One day they will issue orders that their subordinates won't be happy with, but when the success of the mission/command is at stake an individual's personal happiness will have a lower priority.
     
  17. KP2013dramamama

    KP2013dramamama Member

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    Well spoken navy1981
    Question. (re; Plebe candidate liberty)

    "Sunday –Liberty 0800 to class rate muster" means liberty from 8 am till what time? plebe muster is at what time?

    I'm hoping the lack of emails from our son means he is studying and working in a very smart way. (And taking the advice from this experienced forum of parents, midshipmen, etc. that I'm copying and pasting for him.

    Thank you for keeping us informed and answering our questions.:thumb:
     
  18. Navy1981

    Navy1981 Member

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    Muster times on Sunday are based on the class your DS/DD is in. So the more senior a mid is the later they are allowed to stay out on liberty. The term "rate" is used to define what each class rates. Part of the issue with changing the libery policy this year. This year's seniors "rate" less liberty than last years group, so they are unhappy with that situation. If you look at the Regimental Calendar (found at the very bottom of the Parent's Page) you will see the times listed for 3/C, 2/C and 1/C liberty expiration. Plebe Candidates are not listed. I assume that is because Plebe Candidates don't rate much of anything at the moment and will earn liberty as the year goes on.
     
  19. KP2013dramamama

    KP2013dramamama Member

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    Got it. Now, what is DS/DD? I see them frequently in the forum. I do have a reg cal and plebe liberty is to the discretion of the Commandent. It's too soon for the pc to be getting off campus as far as I am concern.
    Thanks for your continued help.
     
  20. KPMarineopsdad

    KPMarineopsdad Member

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    ds/dd is dear son /dear daughter
     

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