New memo on Cadet Pay for summer training

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by -Bull-, May 20, 2014.

  1. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    I just got this last night, but this is something that will affect many people on this board. It's a new memo that essentially says only cadets attending LTC, LDAC, and CTLT qualify for pay. All other cadets are only entitled to travel and subsistence, but will not be receiving pay. I woke up to a text from my PMS this morning asking if I was still going....lol... It's a little late now.

    I don't think any cadet is arguing that they should be banking on these trips, but going to foreign countries, many of which qualify for hardship duty-location pay and imminent danger pay, while not receiving any pay makes people question...
     
  2. Full Metal Bulldog

    Full Metal Bulldog Citadel Class of 2016

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    So, in other words, a good portion of us doing CULP this summer are probably going to be figuring how to not go anymore.
    Not to mention that there are many people with whom it's going to cost them money to attend training, at least temporarily. And they sold us CULP with the "you get paid" advertisement to. Very annoyed, but not in the least bit surprised, cadet here.
     
  3. Jcc123

    Jcc123 Member

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    Is it only Oconus CTLT that are paid now, since most Conus are 3 weeks?
     
  4. sheriff3

    sheriff3 Member

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    What is interesting about this is that there is no date on the memo. Also note per the memo this is a legal opinion. I would guess it may not be enforced until the CG gives it her blessing. I cannot believe they would not pay this year’s CULP attendees without some sort of prior notice. DS did receive a new tasking/unit a few days ago but the group and country stayed the same. On the new orders it increased the # of days from 31 to 32. I just had to print copies of his orders for him and at the bottom of the first page it clearly shows $$ figures and accounts for which they are to be charged to. DS is scheduled to leave very soon so I will ask him if he received this memo and pass along what I learn. Look at it this way. Even if the Army does not pay a cadet for the time gone it is still an incredible experience that will cost little to nothing out of pocket. Also if I'm not mistaken CULP does count towards OML standing.
     
  5. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    The entire memo did not copy. It is dated 16 MAY 14. I don't disagree that it's an awesome opportunity, and cadets would go in a heartbeat without getting paid. Some of us are going for some pretty large chunks of time, and to countries that qualify for multiple pay incentives. I don't think any cadet is looking to bank money on any of their training trips, but something more than $0 would be right.

    I've been told they are meeting on it this afternoon. There are Congressmen that have inquired about this already.
     
  6. sheriff3

    sheriff3 Member

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    Some of us are going for some pretty large chunks of time, and to countries that qualify for multiple pay incentives. I don't think any cadet is looking to bank money on any of their training trips, but something more than $0 would be right.

    I understand and completly agree with you. I'm sure you have and will put in a substantial amount of time on this.

    I've been told they are meeting on it this afternoon. There are Congressmen that have inquired about this already.

    Not possible.... Waaaaaaaaay too fast of a reaction time for these jokers.:rolleyes: But I hope you are correct.:thumb: Thanks for keeping all of us informed. God's speed and stay safe in your travels.
     
  7. cjs

    cjs Member

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    I don't believe that you can figure out how not to go.

    It shouldn't cost you money to attend CULP unless you are giving up a job in order to do it. I know my son didn't get paid for CULP until long after he returned.

    CULP was not sold to my son when he went with a "you get paid" advertisement. It was sold as adding to your OML, as giving you cultural awareness, as adding to your ROTC resume, etc. The bonus was if you were away for more than 30 days you would get paid. But until you got your orders you didn't know how long your trip would be.

    While I completely understand why you are upset, I guess this is the time to get used to the Army changing things and having to roll with the punches.
    Just like the cadets were upset this year who were commissioning and their college majors all of a sudden mattered. Many received their scholarships or started ROTC 4 years ago when majors didn't matter for where you got branched and this year without warning they did.

    Hopefully you can still go and enjoy the experience knowing that you will get points on your OML. Even better will be that you get paid.
     
  8. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

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    AROTC cadets are not paid for other summer training such as Airborne and Air Assault. Ending pay for CULP, which is above all an educational experience, would not be inconsistent.

    While it seems rough to curtail pay in the middle of the process (if that is what just happened), we're in a time of austerity, and this will not be the last such change. In fact I'm a little surprised AROTC stipends have not had a haircut like NROTC and AFROTC a year or so ago. In any event CULP remains a tremendously enriching opportunity for cadets (and an expensive proposition for Cadet Command).
     
  9. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    The internet doesn't convey emotion/context very well, my comments/frustration were not directed towards you. My orders are for over 90 days, unless they are amended to under 30 days, this most likely won't affect me as much. My frustration is more about all of the other cadets on the individual teams and how this is just coming out now. They are going to have to amend everyone's orders, which will be a $h!tshow for someone in G-1. It's not about the money, I'd say, for the majority (if not all) of the cadets, but it does change things. It's up in the air if the language bonus will be given too.

    I'll try and update everyone with what I hear or find out, but my access may be limited soon. (this did come from HQDA, so who knows what we'll even hear as far as details)

    On a brighter note, at least it isn't LDAC or LTC. From a few friends working up there in various areas (and not just recently commissioned LT's), it's going to be an interesting summer.
     
  10. payitforward

    payitforward Member

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    I just had a terrible thought.

    What if –Bull– wasn't on this forum?

    I started to shake.

    Thus, I just wanted to thank you, -Bull-, for being here, and for posting about these issues. It helps to pre-think some of the potential roadblocks DS and his colleagues will be facing.
     
  11. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    Thanks, but I'm definitely nothing special, just got tagged for an assignment that gets me CC'd on a bunch of informative emails lol.

    I learn something new everyday, and always enjoy the parents perspective.
     
  12. sheriff3

    sheriff3 Member

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    Bull, please.. No apology necessary. I am VERY much in your corner on this. I'm sorry if my response came over as anything but. I could not agree more with what you have said on this subject. I know we all appreciate your information. DS informed me this morning his orders had changed last night reducing his overall days to 31 from 32. Just FYI.
     
  13. nofodad

    nofodad Member

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    CULP

    Same here, DS coming home one day earlier...
     
  14. Walledbeth

    Walledbeth Member

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    Bull, Does the memo just mean that the Army will not pay because the cadets are paid through the State department? Forgive my ignorance.
     
  15. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    Guidance I read today:

    Cadets get paid for CULP only if their mission is atleast 28 days long. Cadets will be paid $33.28 per day, but cannot collect both stipend and CULP pay. For MS3's and MS4's, their stipend will not be turned off because of how the system is set up, but once their CULP pay hits, the stipend will be taken for over payment.

    CLIP bonus all depends on the country.

    I think I included everything, when I have a chance to look at the sheet again, I'll clarify.

    If you haven't completed any online training, you'll be able to here. Everyone gets a CAC and all their stuff checked here. Only thing that will hold you up is not having your passport or your shot record (both current and childhood). Everything else will be taken care of.

    All the cadre are cool and looking forward to fun.

    Other than that, hopefully nobody is going to Benin. And if you're going to Spain, you're going to have a bunch of fun.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2014
  16. cajuncarrier

    cajuncarrier Member

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    Bull, an email was sent to you.
     
  17. sheriff3

    sheriff3 Member

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    DS received an email this afternoon from his mission leader stating CULP cadets will not be paid this year.
     
  18. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    I got a piece of paper outlining how much they will be paid. Trust me, if they are on orders over 28 days, they will be paid. The memo was interpreted differently by cadet command JAG and the CG sent a rebuttal. The memo was written based on a regulation that was in place before CULP existed and has since been interpreted differently. Unless that changes, cadets will be paid $33.89 per day. (I gave the wrong amount earlier)

    If I had a scanner, I would put it on here, but all of the cadets will get it when they process through.

    Cajun, I haven't gotten an email.

    And the Thailand trip is still on
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2014
  19. sheriff3

    sheriff3 Member

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    Bull, thanks for the info. Much appreciated:thumb:
     
  20. cajuncarrier

    cajuncarrier Member

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    Bull sent a PM.
     

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