No More Public AirShows

[MN-Dad-2016]

There are lots of zoomies, cadets, and midshipmen who will suffer in some way over these cuts. Midshipmen will lose their summer training. Rumor says WP class sizes will be cut. Civilian DoD employees are taking 20% paycuts. I think the lack of a flyover at graduation is the least of it, and a very small impact indeed. It only affects "memories" as opposed to training or readiness. This isn't about your kid having a wonderful graduation. It's about the military readiness of our nation. Get over it.

I think they should cut the flyovers (read my 1st post of this thread). That said, it is partially about "memories" and "having my DS have a wonderful graduation". Hence, I am willing to pay for it and contribute to other classes to keep the tradition alive. So my question is how much? If private funds are raised, why should you care?

 

[aglages]

It's about the military readiness of our nation. Get over it.

X2

 

[kinnem]

I think they should cut the flyovers (read my 1st post of this thread). That said, it is partially about "memories" and "having my DS have a wonderful graduation". Hence, I am willing to pay for it and contribute to other classes to keep the tradition alive. So my question is how much? If private funds are raised, why should you care?

If you want to raise the funds it's fine with me. I just don't like to hear the whining about what the evil sequester did to little Johnnies graduation when there are more serious costs. However, it can all be done in a positive way, like "Hey, let's show our kids how great this country really is and raise some money to have the Thunderbirds do a flyover!". Hell, you set it up and I'll even make a contribution!

Edit: BTW MN-Dad, the original comment and this one as well aren't necessarily aimed at you but the general tone of some on the thread.

And one more edit: I read somewhere within the past few days that the fuel costs for the average fly over is about $200,000. Sounds high to me, but....

 

[Tigger]

Get over it.

Really? I hate how the anonymity of the internet reduces people to this

 

[kinnem]

Really? I hate how the anonymity of the internet reduces people to this

Yes, really, and I would same the same thing to your face.

Sincerely,
Morgan Kinne
Cary, NC

 

[aseanag]

$200,000 divided by 1,000 cadet families equals $200 per cadet. This is doable. I know I am willing. How about corporate sponsorship? Boeing, General dynamics, Lockheed Martin. This may not matter to NON academy members but it matters to a majority of academy members and families. There are many military traditions that are not vital to the military mission but are important nevertheless!

 

[PupNSuds]

Further, unless you're privy to some inside information, I don't think you can say that DoD didn't start planning until December. What you can say is that those plans started to become public in December. I, personally, have no doubt there was much work going on in the background about this.

The DoD openly acknowledges they didn't start planning until then. They openly acknowledged they didn't take into account the sequestration while planning their budget in September, there was no "Plan B" budget. When asked why they chose not to in the House Armed Services Committee's hearing last month, they replied they feared taking any action would discourage Congress from avoiding the sequester.

 

[MN-Dad-2016]

al comment and this one as well aren't necessarily aimed at you but the general tone of some on the thread.

And one more edit: I read somewhere within the past few days that the fuel costs for the average fly over is about $200,000. Sounds high to me, but....

Well then, I'll take a "lite" version of the flyover versus the "deluxe" flyover package. $200K in fuel costs!?..... GULP! I'm willing to shell out $200 for our entire family in 2016.

I have a winter home in Surprise AZ (where I am typing). Luke AFB is down the block. I wonder what they go though in fuel a day? By the way, if any family of Luke pilots need a spot to stay while they visit, PM me.

 

[aseanag]

Petition on the White House page to save the Blue Angels:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/51003469

 

[LineInTheSand]

I think they should cut the flyovers (read my 1st post of this thread). That said, it is partially about "memories" and "having my DS have a wonderful graduation". Hence, I am willing to pay for it and contribute to other classes to keep the tradition alive. So my question is how much? If private funds are raised, why should you care?

First, cadets don't care. Maybe parents do, but cadets and midshipmen just want to graduate. A 2 sec fly over for an 60 year old institution.... I think they'll be willing to let that slide. They're looking forward to tossing their covers in the air and putting on those butter bars.

There are MUCH more important, higher impact things you could put your money to.

Give it up.

 

[LineInTheSand]

The DoD openly acknowledges they didn't start planning until then. They openly acknowledged they didn't take into account the sequestration while planning their budget in September, there was no "Plan B" budget. When asked why they chose not to in the House Armed Services Committee's hearing last month, they replied they feared taking any action would discourage Congress from avoiding the sequester.

It's true. In large part most agencies and programs didn't start planning because the White House's OMB didn't tell anyone to.

 

[kinnem]

The DoD openly acknowledges they didn't start planning until then. They openly acknowledged they didn't take into account the sequestration while planning their budget in September, there was no "Plan B" budget. When asked why they chose not to in the House Armed Services Committee's hearing last month, they replied they feared taking any action would discourage Congress from avoiding the sequester.

Didn't know that. I stand corrected.... and astonished!

 

[aseanag]

They may not care at the Coast Guard but they do care at USAFA!

 

[aglages]

This may not matter to NON academy members but it matters to a majority of academy members and families.

Is this an unofficial observation? I think most academy members and their families (non 2013) are more concerned about how sequestration will affect training opportunities at the SAs than 2 second flyovers for those that thus far have been minimally impacted by RIFs and sequestration. Just my opinion...

 

[kinnem]

...There are MUCH more important, higher impact things you could put your money to. Give it up.

I'm shocked! Shocked! That the anonymity of the internet would let it come to this!

 

[GoSox]

Yes, really, and I would same the same thing to your face.

Sincerely,
Morgan Kinne
Cary, NC

I like your style. And agree with the substance of your original post.

Don't get me wrong, the Blue Angels flying over my USNA graduation was unbelievable, fantastic, pull-the-breath-right-out-of-your-body great. But right now graduation ceremonies are the fluff -- anybody who is serving is facing real cuts that affect training. Will we get the job done? -- yes, absolutely. As a tactical move, I think cutting Blue Angels/Thunderbirds/air shows is brilliant -- that's the stuff that gets the public's attention, not whether we'll be able to train at the battalion vs. company level.

 

[kinnem]

I like your style. And agree with the substance of your original post.

Don't get me wrong, the Blue Angels flying over my USNA graduation was unbelievable, fantastic, pull-the-breath-right-out-of-your-body great. But right now graduation ceremonies are the fluff -- anybody who is serving is facing real cuts that affect training. Will we get the job done? -- yes, absolutely. As a tactical move, I think cutting Blue Angels/Thunderbirds/air shows is brilliant -- that's the stuff that gets the public's attention, not whether we'll be able to train at the battalion vs. company level.

Yes, but is that my real name? Hmmmmm. No one but me (and maybe a few others on the forum) will ever know.

I certainly agree with you on the tactics of it. We do have to cut from the federal budget, but we're cutting from the wrong places in a ham handed way in my opinion. But I also think these cuts are better than no cuts... and I think politically cuts from DoD had to come first before we could ever hit mandatory spending... and rightly so.

 

[aseanag]

My original point was to gather alternatives. USAFA class of 2013 members plans are in progress on our other forums. We can save this tradition for our cadets with other resources of this great nation of ours.

 

[vareporter]

A few things to keep things in perspective.

The response below is the Navy's response, not the AF. I haven't been able to find a clear delineation of the AF's response to sequestration. This is an example of the type of cuts that will take effect immediately.

Now, my point in showing you this portion of the SECNAV's comments is to say this: Flyovers and other seemingly frivolous uses of precious resources (even if funded by alternative sources such as parents) can seem arrogant and can be very demoralizing to the AD fleet. Imagine you're on a sub that's going on 20 years old. There is daily maintenance that needs to done. Sorry. Can't do it. It's not in the budget. Robbing Peter to pay Paul commences just to complete the mission. Imagine you're the USMC AD E-2. He desperately wants to finish his bachelor's degree so he can make more that $1,400 a month. Sorry. All new enrollment in tuition assistance has been cancelled. Now imagine those two individuals see that the academy grads are getting their flyover to the tune of $200 grand. I'm just saying.

(The following is an excerpt of response by Sec Navy Ray Maybus to impending sequestration)

WE WILL ALSO IMMEDIATELY:
A. BEGIN NEGOTIATING CONTRACT MODIFICATIONS TO DE-OBLIGATE EFFORTS FOR ANY INVESTMENT PROGRAMS FOR WHICH THE REMAINING UNOBLIGATED BALANCE WILL BE INSUFFICIENT AFTER THE SEQUESTRATION REDUCTION IS APPLIED. MAJOR PROGRAMS AFFECTED INCLUDE VIRGINIA-CLASS SSN ADVANCE PROCUREMENT, REACTOR POWER UNITS AND JOINT HIGH SPEED VESSEL (JHSV 10);
B. COMMENCE FINAL PLANNING TO SLOW MARINE CORPS DEPOT MAINTENANCE ACTIVITIES, INCLUDING REDUCTIONS IN THE NON-PERMANENT WORKFORCE;
C. CANCEL MARCH INTRODUCTORY FLIGHT SCREENING FOR FUTURE PILOTS/NFOS;
D. ANNOUNCE INTENT TO CANCEL BLUE ANGELS SHOWS SCHEDULED FOR APRIL 2013 [FOUR SHOWS: MACDILL AFB (TAMPA, FL), NAS CORPUS CHRISTI TX, VIDALIA GA, MCAS BEAUFORT SC];
E. CEASE NEW USMC ENROLLMENTS IN VOLUNTARY EDUCATION TUITION ASSISTANCE;
F. CANCEL MARCH NAVY RECRUITING MEDIA SUPPORT AND REDUCE THE MAJORITY OF ADVERTISING CONTRACTS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE UNDER CONTRACTUAL CONDITIONS.

 

[Christcorp]

I think the hardest thing here, is MOST people here haven't been through this before. Sorry I'm old, but this is NOT the first time this has happened before. There were times when we didn't get paid on payday. There were years where NO PILOTS AT ALL graduated from the academy that year. "In other words, a cutback on pilot slots". Went through closing bases, cutbacks, etc... I know this is confusing and concerning for some, but this is not the first time.

Also; don't at all believe that because the sequester kicked in, that it's some permanent cut in the budget. 1) This isn't a CUT in the budget, in ANY WAY, SHAPE, or FORM. 2) Nothing is permanent in the government.

My prediction: Obama/Whitehouse and the Congress will have their few days/weeks of grandstanding. They'll pretend how much they really care about the deficit and debt. They'll compromise and find some cuts in spending and they'll probably raise more revenue through taxing more. "Maybe the Whitehouse will finally get a budget. They haven't had a budget in 4 years". The democrats will try and convince the american people that they saved the country; and the republicans will try and convince the american people that they too saved the country. And we'll be back where we were.

There is no doubt that there is a lot of places to save money. Republicans want to cut spending in entitlement and social programs; the democrats want to cut spending on defense and increase taxes. Hopefully BOTH SIDES will admit, (Because they both know it); that there's enough WASTE in all government agencies and spending, that if they would just catch the waste, then they'd save billions of dollars. Hopefully they'll all agree to cut wasteful subsidies, grants, and foreign aid. If they cut the waste from these areas, and expect other countries to help the world instead of just the USA, we'll have enough money to spend.

Bottom line: All these concerns, while legitimate, are temporary. The federal government, from Obama to the Congress, doesn't have enough balls to make a firm decision. The sequester is a drop in the bucked in spending cuts, but they'll make the sheeple and ignorant believe that the sky is falling and we're doomed. From here on out, realize that it's ALL POLITICS and has nothing to do with finances or budgets.