deleted non-constructive post.
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No More Public AirShows
- Thread starter sarahann
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Folks...
While I understand the passions where this topic is concerned; and trust me, as a grad/pilot/officer...I really have serious "feelings" in this vein...
The personal "slant" that is occurring is very detracting from the purpose of the thread and our forum.
Please end the personal comments; take them offline, and let's get back on track.
Thank you!
Steve
(Wearing his mod hat tonight)
While I understand the passions where this topic is concerned; and trust me, as a grad/pilot/officer...I really have serious "feelings" in this vein...
The personal "slant" that is occurring is very detracting from the purpose of the thread and our forum.
Please end the personal comments; take them offline, and let's get back on track.
Thank you!
Steve
(Wearing his mod hat tonight)
There are risks with foreign military aid, including regime change (Egypt); scary elements in an existing government (Pakistan); and a change in the calculus from "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" to "the enemy of my enemy is also MY enemy" (Iraq invades Kuwait and no longer is the valuable counterweight to Iran but rather a dangerous rogue state). But staying disengaged (Afghanistan from about 1985 to 2001) isn't necessarily a great course of action either (think 1930s isolationism).
If you talk to folks at the State Department and senior military alike, they don't say that the solution to U.S. budget issues is slashing foreign aid. It's a worthwhile exercise to carefully re-consider whether countries that have received aid should still receive (Pakistan is really, really a scary actor), but an impulse to just cut foreign aid across the board ignores a lot of geopolitical realities that a lot of people smarter than this Marine could explain a lot better!
Putting aside my assist in the hijacking of this thread, and directing this to Aseanag and other parents, I also want to say, I do understand why parents and grads are upset about the loss of the Thunderbirds and I hope you guys will be able to figure out something for a flyover. I'm a sucker for the USMC Silent Drill Platoon (I would only be able to qualify for a "kinda noisy not so great drill platoon" myself) -- I've taken a lot of friends and relatives on Tuesday nights in the summer in DC to the Iwo Jima Memorial to see them in action -- and something will be lost with every great ceremonial element of the military that falls by the wayside.
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Trackandfield did not answer if Operational Coast Guard use tall ships. Operational Coast Guard take request for ceremonies with Eagle. I do know the purpose of Eagle. DS was interested in attending USCGA. Still if Homeland Security were to decide to elliminate Eagle and train Swabs some other way to save money I would understand the importance of EAGLE to Coast Guard Academy family, friends, and alumni.
Flyovers are always cool whether at graduation or a football game. I really enjoy them. However, even without the budget situation, if someone was to tell me this cost and ask should we do it. I would say no, too much money for what we are getting. That's just me though and I am accused of being cheap by my dear wife from time to time.
Like I said, I get your point, and as you already know CG does not use tall ships. I deleted my post that prompted your response.
When I was a kid I read an alternate history series in which the island of Nantucket somehow ends up in 1200 BC and the visiting Coast Guard Eagle goes with it and becomes the seed of an awesome seagoing force that kicks ass from the British Isles to the Pacific. (And Coasties and US Marines save the day militarily). So let's not dismiss the operational possibilities of the Eagle too fast!
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It sounds like you don't know what Coast Guard cadets actually think about the "Dirty Bird".
I would be very fine with pier-siding EAGLE and not wasting money on her bouncing around ports (and yes, some of what EAGLE does is a waste). That said, we're not talking about eliminating the "rich history" of the Thunderbirds... are we? Nope, we're talking about reducing flights and eliminating fly overs.
EAGLE uses wind (sometimes) to move, but there was a time in the 1990s when there wasn't enough money to pay for the fuel of operational CG cutters... so they sat at the pier too.
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Frankly I don't care what YOU think...I'm tired of your snide comments on our forum...I couldn't careless you went to CGA...etc...you never served in my big Air Force...why don't you stay in your own forum?...but I guess not too many people are commenting enough on CG forums and you have nothing better to do.....Ahhhh Go to Navy forum and stay there...since you wrote you "almost" went there. But wait...you went to CGA instead...so they probably don't care about your useless comments either...annnnywaayyyy I'm just one Big Air Force retiree opinion.
Hey hey, now now there EagleDriver, I never said I didn't want YOU to play golf. Don't get so defensive.
You are, of course, very welcome to come on over to the Coast Guard forum to whine about the Coast Guard as much as you'd like. In fact, you can even bring up mini-fridges there, but they won't have any idea what it's like to have a mini-fridge in their rooms. When talking about budgets, the pretty service has very few stones to throw. I've had little sympathy for a service that spends $2,000,000,000 on a single plane. Call me crazy.
And finally, EagleDriver, I frankly don't care if you care what I think. Guess I'm just over that.
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Uh oh, "my child was interested in CGA"... we have an expert folks.
EAGLE was a war prize. I'm guessing it takes less $$ to maintain and operate EAGLE than it does to maintain the USS Constitution.
Coast Guard Academy cadets and Coast Guard officer candidates use EAGLE (is there a training platform the entire Air Force goes through?)
What you'll quickly find out from Coast Guard Academy cadets is, they aren't especially fond on EAGLE.
And while the Naval Academy has a fleet of YPs for its midshipmen, with the exception of some outdated and tiny x-Army training ships, EAGLE is the only training vessel the Coast Guard has. So unless you can dig up a brand new ship (as opposed to one that is older than the Air Force), it seems they have only one option. And while that option is nice and pretty, it's also a fairly honest classroom with respect to the sea, because 80-90% of each class isn't going to fly a desk, their office will be the sea (and the sea yields to knowledge....)
Of course, the Coast Guard isn't even the largest portion of Dept. of Homeland Security funding and the Dept. of Homeland Security's budget is smaller than the U.S. Air Force's budget.
sorry to bring up such a heated topic...my bad
USCGA13STN
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Then again, the Coast Guard has always had to do more with less so maybe we're just used to it. Welcome to to the other side of the tracks DOD.
T&F, this is perfect.
As the child of a US Army career guy (29 years and still refusing to retire that man) I've seen my fair share of big military, and it looks like it's finally being cut down to size. Maybe not in the way it should be, but cut none the less. And yes... welcome to our ballpark where we've been doing more jobs than ever with a budget smaller than the cost of the average nuclear submarine.
You're right no empathy from our service, we're used to being screwed out of a budget and having to cut things. Ever wonder why we kept getting criticized over the response to BP in the beginning weeks? Because believe it or not, although we're tasked with oil spill clean up and emergency response, we can't afford to have a team sit around and train for the eventuality years down the road. We have to wear 900,000 different hats with a service smaller than the size of NYPD because we don't have nor have we ever had, that budget.
And if you want to scuttle Eagle to the bottom of the Thames, you'll have my vote and the vote of every single cadet onboard the Academy.
Luigi59
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(Not t&t, but i'll answer you.)
Yes, they do. One. While primarily serving as a training vessel and a visible symbol of goodwill, Eagle is an active duty cutter.
While it is not armed anymore (while serving Nazi Germany it did shoot down 4 aircraft btw) and cannot perform a LE mission, nor does it have icebreaker or ATON capabilities, it nonetheless is an active duty cutter that has, can, and does perform S&R while conducting its assigned training mission.
I understand your budget concerns. I support your need for increase funding. But, your budget beef should not be with USAF, US Army, or USN. Coast Guard is fund thru Homeland security not DOD. You are competing with Border Patrol, ATF, CIA, FBI for funding. Putting down the US Military due to your funding woos will not help the Coast Guard. The DOD could not make a difference if they tried.
MN-Dad-2016
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Was that really necessary?
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Wow. As I said "we have an expert" who knows more about DHS than the people who work for DHS. Of the agencies you mentioned, only Border Patrol is in DHS.
The agencies within DHS that the Coast Guard is competing with are.....
CBP (which includes Border Patrol), ICE, USCIS, TSA, FEMA and USSS. I feel like I'm forgetting something.
CIA is an independent agency, and FBI is in the Justice Department.
Uh oh, "USCGA alumus", we have an expert on USAFA folks.
US Air Force budget versus the US Coast Guards budget. Isn't that an unfair comparison.
I am sure the Navy and Army budget is larger than the Coast Guard also.
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Absolutely, and the Marine Corps is 16x the Coast Guard's budget, while it's only 4x the size.
The difference here is they don't have a thread devoted to whine about fly overs and mini-fridges while many thousands of people are scheduled to miss 22 days of work, unpaid.
Marines don't have an Academy. They whine on the Navy's site. Mr. Coast Guard Alumus USAF people can discuss whatever they want on their forum. Who are you to judge. USAFA traditions are their not yours. What matter to them is their issues not yours.
Whether it mini fridges, golf clubs or fly overs these traditions matter to them. It is the Air Force portion of this forum let them have their site to discuss what matters to them without our Coast Guard brothers belittling whatever they deem trivial.