# Nomination math?

Discussion in 'Nominations' started by aglages, Jul 7, 2010.

1. ### aglagesParent

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I'd appreciate it if someone could help me understand where all the nominations for a service academy are "allocated'.

As I understand the system, each member of congress (435 Reps & 100 Senators & the VP) may have a maximum of 5 noms attending each SA at any time. If we take the USNA (as an example) that means that the maximum number of noms from the above source would be 2680 Mids.
The enrollment at the USNA is approximately 4300. Where do the other 1620 Noms come from? Could there be anywhere near that many Presidential Noms at one academy? How many can the Superintendent choose?
Thanks.

2. ### KNPMember

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I am sure someone will explain it better than I. Each MOC has 5 slots that are counted against him. The rest of the nominated candidates are then put in a National Pool. From there, the 150 candidates with the best whole candidate score are offered appointments and the rest of the slots (after Presidential, Vice-Presidential slots are filled) are used to fulfill other requirements of the Academy (diversity, scholar, athlete,) Hope this helps.

3. ### aglagesParent

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Thanks KNP! Bottom line is that 1620 (minus Presidential & Superintendent Noms) applicants can be admitted to the USNA without noms? I'm trying to determine how many people actually get admitted to a SA without a nomination. Sounds as though it could be as high as 25%.

4. ### marciemiUSMA Alumnus

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Remember that each MOC can nominate 10 candidates for EACH of those 5 slots. Even though technically only 1 of those 10 candidates will be charged to him for each slot, the other 9 candidates still received a nomination, and thus the opportunity to go on the National Wait List. Also remember that if you have an LOA (I know WP issued 500 of them this past year), you only need to have any kind of nom, so even if your MOC assigned a principal nom other than you, you would still be guaranteed a slot.

5. ### OBXmomMember

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It might make it clearer to see where the appointments come from (Since there are more nominations out there than appointments!) The following data comes from a brochure sent out last year to candidates. In parenthesis I put the nomination source.

Senators: 5 in attendance (Senatorial Nom)
Congressmen: 5 in attendance (Congressional Nom)
An unlimited number of Presidential Nominations are available, but only 100 appointments can come from them.
Vice Presidential Nomination (same as senator/congressman, only five attending at a time)
Puerto Rico: one attending at a time (Governor of Puerto Rico Nom)
Northern Marianas Islands: one attending at a time (Resident Rep Nom)
American Samoa: two attending (Delegate to Congress Nom)
Guam: three attending (Delegate to Congress Nom)
Virgin Islands: three attending (Delagate to Congress Nom)
Regular and Reserve Navy and Marine Corps: 170 appointments (Apply via commanding officer)
Honor Naval & Military Schools NROTC NJROTC MCJROTC: 20 appointments total (Apply to professor of military science, senior naval science/military instructor or school admin)
Children of Deceased/Disabled Veterans and Children of POWs/MIAs: 65 appointees at the Academy at any one time. (Pres Nom)
Children of Medal of Honor Awardees: as long as they are fully qualified, they are automatically appointed. No limit. (Pres Nom)

If you read the catalog, the numbers seem a little different, especially in regard to NROTC and a few other areas, but it gives you an idea where the other appointments come from.

Biggest thing that helped in securing nominations for my son was contacting his Senators and Congressman and very nicely ascertaining how many they currently had in attendance for the various academies.

6. ### aglagesParent

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Thanks OBXmom!
Do the "Children of Deceased/Disabled Veterans and Children of POWs/MIAs" and the "Children of Medal of Honor Awardees" count against the 100 Presidential nominations that can come from him? In other words, could you have 165+ Presidential appointees depending on how many qualified under the last two categories?

7. ### OBXmomMember

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I thought that area was unclear also. The information in the catalog makes me feel like the last two categories are not included in the 100, but I would hope someone here will know for sure, or could find out.

8. ### buff81Moderator

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'Sons and daughters of MOH awardees' and 'Sons and daughters of deceased/disabled veterans' are not Presidential noms. They are separate.

Here is how the Service-Connected Vacancies break down (in West Point language):
Presidential: 100/yr
Enlisted soldiers of Regular Army: 85/year
Enlisted soldiers of Reserve Components: 85/yr
Sons and daughters of Medal of Honor awardees: unlimited
Sons and daughters of deceased/disabled veterans: 65 total
ROTC programs : 20/year

9. ### USNA'02Member

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First let me clarify that a nomination is REQUIRED w/o one you cannot get an appointment.

Sources of NOMS:
CONGRESSIONAL # Allowed*
VICE PRESIDENT 5
MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, each 5
DELEGATE FROM DC 5
PUERTO RICO:
- RESIDENT COMMISSIONER 5
- GOVERNOR 1
TERRITORY DELEGATES FROM:
- GUAM 3
- VIRGIN ISLANDS 3
- AMERICAN SAMOA 2
RESIDENT REPRESENTATIVE
FROM NORTHERN
MARIANAS ISLANDS 1

*Total in the Brigade charged to that source

MILITARY SERVICE CONNECTED
CATEGORY # Allowed**
CHILDREN OF
DECEASED/DISABLED
VET; CURRENTPOW/MIA 65 Total
PRESIDENTIAL:
CHILDREN OF:
- MOH RECIPIENTS NO LIMIT
- ACTIVE DUTY/
CAREER RESERVE 100 Annually
SECNAV
- REGULAR 85 Annually
- RESERVE 85 Annually
NJROTC/HJROTC/NROTC 20 Annually

**Total in Brigade or Annual Maximum charged to that source as noted

I'm sure that has made it clear as mud

10. ### Just_A_MomMember

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Cadet strength and territorial distribution is all spelled out in the US Code.
It gets kind of convoluted and I tried to simplify it so here goes:

Total # of cadets = 65 disabled, missing, deceased parents 65/4= approx 16/year

US Representatives = 5 each. 5*435=2175 approx 1 /year = 435/year
US Senators = 5 each. 5*50=250 approx 1/year = 50/ year

21 total for DC, PR and territories. Approx 5/year.

Number Selected Per YEAR=
100 by the President from parents who are serving (8+ yrs) /retired

85 by Sec Reserve enlisted
20 ROTC
150 Sec from “Qualified Alternates” from those nominated by a US Senator or US Congressman
Children of MOH awards = Unlimited
50 Nominated by the Superintendent. May not displace any congressionally nominated candidate nor make strength of the Corps exceed the authorized number.

When you add up all these totals you get about 996 appointments available each year.

If number of cadets at the Academy will be below the authorized number, the Secretary of the Army/Navy/AF may fill the vacancies by nominating additional cadets from qualified candidates designated as alternates and from other qualified candidates who competed for nomination and are recommended and found qualified by the Academic Board.
At least three-fourths of those nominated under this section shall be selected from qualified alternates nominated the VP, Senators and Congressmen, and the remainder from qualified candidates holding competitive nominations under any other provision of law. An appointment under this section is an additional appointment and is not in place of an appointment otherwise authorized by law.

11. ### ScottWMember

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this post is confusing. just saying. not tryin to flame anyone

12. ### aglagesParent

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What part is confusing to you ScottW?

13. ### ScottWMember

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The whole process of nominations is confusing to me. I think the academy could just accept a certain % of candidates from each state/race/income level/hometown setting, and keep the academic selection the same. It would keep the overall diversity of accepted applicants the same, which is what they are looking to do? right? or am i just rambling about something that doesn't make sense?

14. ### PimaParent

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The academies are not only looking for diversity, but also the most qualified cadets. At first the apptmt process does seem to be confusing, but when you get a grasp on it, you will see it that it is not confusing. Get a nom, any nom, and if you are qualified you have just as much of chance from CA as you do from HA. The highest scoring cadets get an appointment. In essence, in a way it is similar to a traditional university regarding diversity, the only difference is you need a nom to meet the board.

People early in the process believe that just because they have one nom from an MOC, that they will be charged to that MOC. That is not correct. Once you have a nom, and if your score is high enough they can charge you to other sources from the list that JAM showed.

Finally, as much as it sounds fair to say take 20 from each state, I would bet that the people from CA would be screaming bloody murder while the people from WY would be all for it, solely based on population. By going the MOC route it actually is more fair since districts are based on population. On top of that if you look at a state like VA, where NO VA schools are the top in the nation for hs, chances are all of the cadets for VA would come from NoVA. Whereas, the way the system works, there are cadets from all over VA, regardless of how the rigor of their school system compares to each other.

15. ### Just_A_MomMember

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The Nomination process is confusing and it is difficult to simply. Remember the rules don't come from Academy admissions. They come from Congress.

I think the Nomination process was begun after the Civil War. Congress wanted to be sure that there would be adequate representation from all districts preparing to lead our military soldiers. They developed the system so the southern citizens would not be left out.

The important thing to remember is that all candidates should promptly apply for ALL Nominations for which they are eligible. If there is confusion there, they should seek counsel from Admissions.

16. ### Just_A_MomMember

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Not quite but of this you have no control. So, it's best not to dwell on it.

17. ### ScottWMember

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is there any way to tell how many cadets from each state are currently at the academy?