Nomination Question

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by bah, Jan 6, 2014.

  1. bah

    bah New Member

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    I just recieved a letter from one of my senators stating that I would not be placed on their nominating slate as it was found that my other senator would be nominating me. My question is how to interpret this. I would assume if I were an alternate I should be on both senator's list. Is it possible that I could be the other senator's primary. I have not yet recieved a letter from the nominating senator, but my portal has updated with his name as a nomination source.
     
  2. rocatlin

    rocatlin Member

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    Not uncommon. Congress members often coordinate nominations to avoid duplicates. For example, my son got a nom from our senior senator. The junior senator's office called and let him know that they defer to the senior senator -- although they were assuring him that he would have gotten a nomination with the junior senator as well.
     
  3. spikingeagle

    spikingeagle Member

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    Sounds like as far as the Academy is concerned you have a nomination, that's all that really matters I think. (my portal says the same thing and I got the primary from my congressman) Congrats!
     
  4. BoLwife

    BoLwife Member

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    I find this so confusing. Some people say your chances are greater with more Noms, but then, if you're in one of these "spread the wealth" states, where MOCS don't duplicate, doesn't that put you at a disadvantage?
     
  5. AFrpaso

    AFrpaso USAFA '17

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    In a way, yes. Is there much that you as an applicant can do about it? No.
     
  6. mdanderson

    mdanderson Member

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    There is no advantage to receiving more than one nomination. You are not at a disadvantage, and it is very common for MOC's to coordinate. A nom is a nom...
     
  7. AFrpaso

    AFrpaso USAFA '17

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    The way the system was explained to me was that a nom made that applicant competitive within a certain niche. A nom from a Congressman means you are competing with everyone else in that Congressman's district. A nom from a Senator means you are competing against all other applicants who received a nom from that Senator (state wide). If you receive a Vice Presidential Nom then you are competing in a national pool of sorts.

    Officials coordinate so that more applicants can actually be reviewed by the AFA. Some people get multiple nominations and compete within those separate areas. Didn't make the cut with your Senator Nom? Maybe the Congressional nom will be less competitive and grant you a spot.

    Or I could be completely wrong. I wish I could remember a source on this.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2014
  8. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    In order to "Win" the Lottery, you only need 1 ticket. Correct? Does buying more than 1 ticket increase your odds? Yes. Well, nominations are similar, yet different. I'll explain in very simple terms. (Albeit long winded). I think you all will understand.


    In an AVERAGE YEAR:
    1. EACH NOMINATING SLATE will have "X" number of (For lack of better words, GUARANTEED APPOINTEES). I say "X" number, because basically EACH Representative and EACH Senator, will have 1 guaranteed appointment from their slate. However, some nominating slates, like PRESIDENTIAL, can have up to 100 appointments. ROTC can have 20. etc... But for our discussion, we will concentrate on the Representative and Senator. On average, each of these individuals will be guaranteed 1 appointment per year. Some years, they might have 2 vacancies at the academy, and they'll submit 2 SEPARATE Slates. They will receive a guaranteed appointment for EACH SLATE.

    2. The MORE SLATES YOU ARE ON, the better your chances are. ASSUMING you are the person chosen. The senator/representative can rank the list 1-10 and the academy MUST take the #1 person listed "If Qualified". The senator/representative can list just the #1 (Principal) and the other 9 are ONLY CONSIDERED if the #1 is "Not Qualified". Or, the Senator/Representative can simply provide a list of 10 names and let the academy choose 1. But no matter what, the academy MUST CHOOSE ONE from that list. So as I said, the more lists/slates you're on, the better your chances.

    2a. Honestly though, the "Better your chances are", really only applies to the SUPER DUPER APPLICANT. Take a state like California. They have 53 representatives and the 2 senators. That's a GUARANTEED 55 appointments. (Assuming each rep/senator only has 1 slate). There's probably going to be at least a dozen PERFECT academic applicants. Throw in athletics, volunteering, etc... and you can see how a person might not get the appointment from their representative's slate, because another person was just as good or better. In these states, most times, the senators use their slate to get that #2 on a representative's slate an appointment. Most states, the representatives and senators talk to each other.

    3. Now; this mandatory 535 (average minimum) senator/representative slate appointments, only make up about 40-50% of all appointments. Like I said earlier, there's another 20 from the ROTC slate; another 100 from the Presidential Slate, and some other various slates. For argument sake, let's say 200 total. Now; if you're on any of THESE SLATES, your odds go up again. But let's assume you don't get one of these 200 appointments, lets assume 535 + 200 appointments are given out. That leaves approximately 350-500 appointments left. (Each year, the total number changes). This is what we call the "National Pool" (For lack of a better term).

    4. In the "National Pool", it doesn't matter if you have 1 nomination or 5 nominations. It's a 1 ticket lottery. And that's really the best way to look at all the slates. Think of "EACH SLATE" as a separate lottery. But think of the rules as though you aren't allowed to enter ALL lotteries. I.e. A person from Texas can't be considered in the New Jersey Slates. A non-military brat can't be considered for a presidential. A non-ROTC applicant can't be considered for an ROTC slate. Well, in some states, the pool of applicants is so large; that some senators and representatives, in order to increase the number of nominees from their district/state, won't give nominations to individuals who already have another state MOC nomination. This is their policy, and while you may not like it, it is "Fair" (As far as those in THAT STATE GO).

    4a. This doesn't have any bearing on whether or not you have a presidential, ROTC, etc... nomination. That's none of your senator's or representative's business. That is something you earned, and you are not obligated to tell them. But as far as not receiving more than one MOC nomination; as long as NO ONE in your state can get more than 1 MOC nomination, then it's fair.

    People forget; you compete at many different levels. You compete at the district/state level as well as the national level. Whether it's the national pool, presidential, rotc, etc.... So yes, there are advantages to being on more than one MOC slate. But that's generally just an advantage to individuals who are in the TOP-10 of their state. NOT 10%; actual TOP-10, where they are competing with someone in the same district who is also a TOP-10. Then they might get an appointment from a different slate. But if you don't, then you take your chances in the National Pool. And there, like I said, it doesn't matter if you have 1 or 10 nominations. Best of luck. Mike....
     
  9. Kapunui

    Kapunui Member

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    Christcorp you just answered many of my questions about nominations. Thank you very much! +1:thumb:
     
  10. Mom96

    Mom96 Member

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    Is there public information available regarding how many vacancies an MOC has at an academy in a given year? What about a list of nominations awarded?
     
  11. ca2midwestmom

    ca2midwestmom Member

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    If you're curious about a specific MOC, look at his/her website under press releases. Many will issue a PR listing the names of candidates nominated and the SA nominated to in a given year.
     
  12. In-the-Know

    In-the-Know Member

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    Christcorp is generally correct. However, if you are really motivated to attend a service academy, you are highly encouraged to apply to every nomination source for which you are eligibe. Apply early, apply often. This is a word to the wise for next year.

    Most deadlines, except the vice presidential nomination (31 Jan) have come and gone. See your "Instructions to Candidates".
     
  13. Mom96

    Mom96 Member

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    Thanks. That's what I was hoping for but don't see anything. Son got nomination, just trying to find out a little more on competition within our district.
     
  14. leto8178

    leto8178 Member

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    Honestly the only way I had any idea on vacancies and competition for the year was to contact the nominations coordinator at my congressman's office. She was more than willing to lay it out for me. Also, as I understood it, the congressman's office is actually notified as to the number of vacancies directly from the service academy each year, so it probably won't be something they will publish. Good luck!
     
  15. Mom96

    Mom96 Member

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    Thanks! We are reluctant to bother the staff with those kind of questions. Might be happy to oblige, but could be annoyed. So we will live with the mystery I guess.
    One more question on nominations. Is it appropriate for nominee to write a business style letter of thank you to MOC for the nomination?
     
  16. ca2midwestmom

    ca2midwestmom Member

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  17. melindayching

    melindayching Member

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    I'm a HUGE proponent of personal thank you notes, and my daughter wrote, on nice stationery (no flowers or cartoons...heavy cream and blue Crane paper), personal notes to all her MOCs, with thanks in helping her towards her dream. She actually got the same back from one congresswoman - a handwritten personal card thanking her for the thank you. So these small things do not go unnoticed and establish an ethic early on with the kids.
     

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