NROTC Chances

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by balaenoptera, Jun 23, 2013.

  1. balaenoptera

    balaenoptera New Member

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    Is there any chance of me getting an NROTC scholarship if I haven't done anything athletic during high school outside of intramurals? I was more interested in academics but during the latter half of my junior year I began researching college and thought about Navy as an option. I was inspired to be a part of the millitary when I went to a NSBE conference and saw all of the men and women in uniform and wanted to be like them.

    I have above a 4.0 GPA
    My SAT score is a 2000 with a 650 in CR and a 660 in math.
    I have/am going to be taking a total of 20 honors and AP courses over my high school career with a strong focus on mathematics and the sciences. I participate in a variety of clubs and have leadership positions in them as well. I also participate in my church youth group and volunteer as a camp leader during the summer. I have two internships this summer, one as an editorial intern for an online college/high school help sight and another at a research lab. I work a part time job as the secretary of a small business as well. I also am in various honors societies. I participate in a leadership academy once a month and have also been to various LEAD programs which only 20-30 out of hundreds of applicants are accepted into.

    Since I found out I wanted to be in the navy I have been working out consistently and am preparing myself for serving the United States of America in the future. I plan on applying for the NROTC Scholarship at the following schools: Villanova University, Boston University, University of Pennsylvania, Penn State, Carnegie Mellon and the other option for minorities at Howard University. There was a video on youtube that presented a girl who said she never was athletic and got the scholarship from the navy (on the navy's channel). Does anybody have an idea of my chances?
     
  2. rkrosnar

    rkrosnar Member

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    balaenoptera,

    Your scores are exactly like my sons. His number one school was MIT and did not get accepted. I see were your interested in Penn State. They have an excellent NROTC program, as well as excellent academics. My son graduated from there in May of 2012, with a dual major in Physics/Astrophysics with a math minor. He is now a teacher at a private prep in Alabama. Needless to say his plan failed him. If you need any help with Penn State me know, I would be glad to help. Also have a family friend whose son just graduated from Villanova, he was class President also another great option.

    RGK
     
  3. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    First,
    I think UPenn is a big reach for you unless you have a hook that you have yet to mention.

    You want to aim for a much higher SAT for most of those colleges. I would be aiming for 700+ since NROTC does superscore. The thing you need to realize is the scholarship is tied to the college also. IOTW, they have limited amount of scholarships for each unit. PSU and Villanova ar very competitive.

    Second,
    What is your intended major?

    Third,
    As far as athletics goes, it is part of the Whole Candidate Score, it matters. It is given a specific percentage of the entire score. Many candidates do not have HS athletics, but fill that vacancy with non-traditional sports. I.E. Life guardiing, TKD. travel sports teams.

    The reason that like to see athletics on the resume is it illustrates:
    1. Dedication
    2. Team building skills
    3. Leadership
    4. Time management
    5. Athleticism

    All of these issues will be part of your life not only in ROTC, but in the Navy too.

    Personally, since you do not have any athletics on file, I would suggest practicing the PFA so you can max it.


    Nobody can give you chances here because it varies yr by yr due to the applicant pool and the amount of scholarships offered by NROTC.

    You just need to apply. It is a few hrs out of your life. Good luck.
     
  4. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    OP,

    I hope you get a scholarship. The NROTC application process is more complicated than the other Branches because some Battalions fill up in the very first Board, which I believe meets end August. The most popular Battalions tend to be at popular private colleges, and these are the very Battalions that you have listed. Goes to show you have good taste, but if you don't have your application complete -- that is teacher recs, Officer Interview, application including essays, SAT/ACT scores, transcripts, etc., by late July, you probably won't be seen by the first Board, and your chance of getting any of those colleges after first Board are pretty small.

    Given your good but not great academic stats, your weakness in sports/team sports, and no mention of significant leadership roles, I think you should re-think which colleges are at the top of your list... other than Howard, for which your stats are well above average.

    YOu can also choose to participate in NROTC while not on scholarship during your freshman and sophomore years in college, and assuming all goes well, gain acceptance into Advance Course at the end of your Sophomore year in college. You would Contract, and get monthly stipend and book money for your last two years, and again if all goes well, get commissioned as an Ensign just like all the scholarship NROTC mids and the mids from USNA.

    There is a mandated push from Congress to diversify the Officer ranks in the Military. If you are in fact an underserved minority, this will work to your advantage. If you are African American, even more so. I say that because even though you are late to the game in terms of your resume strength, you might still have a good chance b/c of the diversity angle... especially wrt Howard University.

    ** edit ** I did get Army and Navy mixed up below.... I think the "MSI" is an Army thing. However, the same push is there for NROTC, even if it isn't a formal program.

    Sometimes I get Army, Navy mixed up in terms of their particulars, but I'm pretty sure the Navy has a scholarship allocation specific to Minority Servicing Institutions, and I'll bet Howard is among them. The applicant doesn't have to BE a minority, just wanting to study at a Minority Serving Institution. If that is the case, your application would not be competing against the National pool of applicants to all NROTC Battalions, but against the pool of applicants who list Minority Servicing Institutions on their list of colleges on the Application. For this reason I think you would have a really decent chance of getting a scholarship for use at the NROTC Battalion at Howard.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2013
  5. jiller59

    jiller59 Member

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    Link to Navy MSISR program
    http://www.nrotc.navy.mil/MSI.aspx
     
  6. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    ^ thanks.

    Looks like a completely separate application, AND looks like that application runs through the Battalion that governs the MSI rather than directly to the NETC .... so for Howard, that would be the George Washington University NROTC Battalion.

    Q: Can an applicant apply for a Scholarship via the National NROTC pool for non MSI NROTC schools, as well as to MSI NROTC schools via this specialized MSISR application?
     
  7. balaenoptera

    balaenoptera New Member

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    I plan on majoring in computer engineering and I have been in contact with the person who works with minority admissions since freshman year so I have a slight advantage. She told me to aim for a 2000 and I could likely get in.
     
  8. balaenoptera

    balaenoptera New Member

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    I am the president of the W.E.B. DuBois honors society at my school and the vice-president of another club as well. I am a minority as well as a female so I think this may slightly work to my advantage.
     
  9. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Not as much as you might think.
     
  10. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I am not sure who she is. She admissions at UPenn, Villanova, etc? She as in BGO?

    I agree with Jcleppe....regarding being a female and a minority.

    Getting back to your original question regarding sports.

    Have you done a practice PFA? It is a chunk of your WCS, along with your ECs (athletic participation goes in that portion along with honor society, etc). Weak PFA and no sports, you may be looking at a lower overall score.

    This path is a marathon, not a sprint. Be prepared for 6-9 months from now before you receive a decision regarding the scholarship even if you meet the 1st boards.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2013
  11. balaenoptera

    balaenoptera New Member

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    I don't believe that it will give me much more of a boost but I do think they will take both of those things into consideration.
     
  12. balaenoptera

    balaenoptera New Member

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    Who is BGO? I have no idea who that is that you are referring to. She admissions at U Penn but not at Villanova. I already know that I have the ability to get into Villanova college wise as well because I've talked to the people who head admissions and based on their required sat scores and my extra curricular activities I am definitely able to get in.
     
  13. Thompson

    Thompson Member

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    In regards to NROTC at PSU, I'm an incoming Army freshman cadet. I do know however, from another incoming midshipman - who did not get a high school scholarship, but apparently he's working something out with the regional NROTC liaison and/or the cadre about getting him a 4 year scholarship -- and apparently this is NOT an in-school scholarship according to said midshipman. It's a separate program from previously mentioned from what he said. I do not know much else outside of this - so maybe kinnem might know more?

    If you have questions from a student perspective, feel free to ask.
     
  14. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    A BGO is a Blue & Gold Officer. These are liaisons between the USNA and the candidate. In the AF they are called ALO's. Part of your WCS includes a rec from the BGO/ALO or the person that interviews at the college ROTC unit.

    You will eventually interview with someone from the Navy. I don't know the breakdown for the WCS for NROTC, but for AF it is the following:
    60% PAR (prior academic record).
    ~~~ SAT, cgpa, class rank are all given a specific weight.
    20% EC
    ~~~ Sports, jobs, etc and your PFA score
    20% Recs and Interviews
    ~~~ BGO/Det. CoC.

    It is a point system. The board does not take into consideration if you have already been accepted to any of your colleges. This is why it is important to have a match on your list. Every yr there are candidates that get a scholarship to a college they were rejected from, and have to scramble to get the scholarship transferred to a school they did get accepted to for fall admissions.

    Scholarships for NROTC are like AFROTC @85% are STEM, which means you stand okay there, but remember if you get to the college and decide computers aren't your thing, and want to transfer to Poli Sci, you will need their approval from a stem major to a non-stem major. This is not a given, especially in this day and age. It is more likely to be denied.

    You have stated you are a minority. I do not know how Penn state colleges for residents work regarding admissions, but yesterday the Supreme Court handed down a decision regarding affirmative action and admissions.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/24/supreme-court-affirmative-action-decision_n_3345534.html

    I would look into if this will be a factor for you.

    UPenn is an Ivy and although I do not sit on any admissions board, I would think even a 2100 is going to be considered low, let alone a 2000, especially from a superscore perspective. Their 25-75% range from the low of 2130 to 2310. That means at 2000 your score is in the bottom 25% range of the entire incoming class.

    For Villanova you are in target range because their scores are 1300/1430 out of 1600, thus you are currently in their range. The problem is Villanova is highly competitive with a target of approx. 8% from their application pool for their incoming class. Now add into this equation that Nova is highly competitive for NROTC scholarships, so you can expect the recipients are going to be on the higher end of the SAT.

    Finally, one more thing to understand about NROTC scholarship candidate pool. Although many that apply for NROTC do not apply for the USNA, many that apply for USNA do apply for NROTC scholarships as their plan B. NROTC board does not place into the equation if the candidate is applying to USNA. It is WCS, intended major, and school choice.

    Remember overall scholarship recipients as freshman are not the majority, they are the minority. If you do not get a scholarship, your cgpa in college will matter for a side load. Another reason to make sure you are academically a match. I do not know NROTC's stats for scholarships, but for AFROTC it is @20% of all boarded candidates that receive a scholarship.

    Not trying to be debbie downer, just a firm believer in the idea that the more you know, the better equipped you will be to navigate the next 4 yrs.
     
  15. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    OBTW, I forgot to say...let's assume you get a scholarship. You cannot contract until you pass the PFT.

    You have stated you are not athletic. Nova prior to sequestration held a week/two week long NROTC orientation before school starts, this is training. Other schools may not hold any orientation and just expect you to show up when school starts. The PFT will be given within a week of school starting. Bust it...you don't contract until you pass...no stipend, no tuition, no book allowance.

    They do this to weed people out in the early stage.

    Best suggestion I can give is spend this yr. working out. No short cuts. Download the test and use the correct forms for push ups, sit ups. with the proper downtime. If it says 2 mins. Than it is 2 mins., not 3. If it says X amount of inches, and Y angle (degree), than it is exactly that. Throw in some butterfly kicks too.

    Train at 6 a.m.. Train at the height of the heat during the day. Train in the rain. Train in 30 degrees. Train when you have a runny nose and a low fever.

    That is what ROTC will be like at school. You have a paper due for a 9 a.m.class and stayed up until 1 to get it done; you will still have to be there at 6 a.m.. for PT. Sleeting outside, oh well, they will give you PT clothes to keep you warm!
     
  16. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    re: minority and female --

    I'm going to disagree with those who say it won't matter much. WRT college admissions, it depends on the college. If a college is making an effort to increase the % of African American students, which all elite colleges like Penn are, though male more than female, then it makes a very big difference. WRT NROTC, if NROTC is under the same guidelines as the USNA, then again, it makes a very big difference. Last time I looked at USMA (not USNA) stats, admissions % for Black American was over 90%, whereas for all others was under 60%.... this if for 3Q applicants ... those who met the academic and medical minimum qualifications, and have a Nomination. I am going to assume it DOES matter in NROTC, because the mandate to create an Officer force that mirrors the racial/ethnic mix of the enlisted force comes from Congress. That would then apply both to USNA and NROTC, or else the USNA would need to make up for any shortfall in NROTC or OCS.

    The OP also has an advantage in wanting to study Engineering. Engineering prospective majors do get a huge boost in both NROTC an AFROTC.

    OP's SAT is a little low compared to those students attending Penn, and those mids who received a scholarship... but not low enough to raise an eyebrow. 2,000 and above is quite acceptable assuming the University or ROTC has targeted Black and Female. If an applicant is part of a targeted group, and meet minimum academic standards, then the admissions decisions focus on character, and the possibility that the applicant's academic training leaves them at significant risk for dropping out. 2175 vs. 2025? Irrevant. 3.95 unweighted vs. 3.85? Irrelevant. This is exactly the same way in which recruited athletes are handled.

    Now, I agree with PIMA regarding the PFT. This is a non-negotiable. There are minimum standards for PFT performance and body fat %. These are not waiverable -- even by Congress!. You miss either target, you are put on notice within the Battalion, and on a improvement program. If the mid cannot hit the standards while under review (typically by the end of the academic term, or academic year), they are separated from NROTC.

    OP, I think your chances are really good for getting an NROTC scholarship out of the National pool. At least 40-50%. If you are able to put in a simultaneous application (I don't know the rules) for the MSISR pool, I think your chances there are over 90%. What I don't know is your risk of not contracting because of PFT failure during Orientation. You haven't posted your capabilities in situps, pushups, and 1.5 mile run (or whatever the run is for NROTC).
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2013
  17. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    dunninla,

    The thing with minority status, is what minority? Are they a URM (Under Represented Minority)?

    URMs vary college to college. An Asian applicant for Howard would have a huge edge compared to UPenn because they would def. be URM.. It needs to be placed into the equation.

    USNA has that hot topic button regarding diversity. It becomes a fiery thread every yr. However, if I recall correctly, their diversity program is aimed more towards districts/areas that typically don't get a lot of applicants, and the majority if them are not white. I wouldn't place it on the same level as NROTC because NROTC is a national pool from the get go, USNA is a geocentric pool (congressional districts, than the national pool).

    That is one big difference. USNA is national, not state by state, congressional district by congressional district. When we lived in NC, I would guesstimate that 30% of our DS's graduating class was 30% African American, and 15% Latino. I don't think they would have used the diversity program in our district. I am from NJ, and I can see them using that program for Camden. I believe they also use it in some areas of Baltimore. The school systems are not great, and thus the candidates are at a disadvantage.

    Additionally, if you look at the breakdown of USNA classes, it tends to mimic society. 90% rate for African Americans compared to 60% white students may be due to the fact that more white students overall apply. I.E. they have 16K open packages, if 13K are white, and 3K are minorities, it can be a reason for the discrepancy. (See above)

    Again due to the SCOTUS decision yesterday, nobody knows what the impact will be regarding admissions for state funded universities come this fall. In VA, we do not have that rule of top 10% of all HS grads get automatic acceptance. We do have a law that requires state colleges cannot admit more than 25/30% from Out of State.

    Does anyone know if the OP is African American, American Indian, Asian, Latino, etc?

    I don't.

    Do anyone of us know their school profile? I don't!
    Would your opinion regarding their stat as a minority change if they were attending a school like Christian Brothers Academy in NJ where it costs 14K a yr for HS? Would anyone say that the children of Obama, Holder, Steele, should use that edge when they attend the best HS schools?

    Let me make this clear, I don't believe the OP is attending a private school. I assume they are attending a traditional public HS. They maybe attending a school in a poor district, and for me personally, they should get that edge.

    However, here is always my biggest fear regarding kids applying for college and ROTC.

    Attending a reach school is not easy if you are given an edge due to a hook. College profs don't give a crap. They are not going to slow the class down because you don't get it. Class sizes for freshman (Econ, Eng, Hist, Psych, Soc) can be 100-200 kids taught by a TA. At VT engineering majors are told on day one look left, look right, one of the 3 of you will not graduate with an engineering degree.

    Starting off at a school, like UPenn where they give Pass/Fail for some freshman classes is a stress when your cgpa can mean the loss of a scholarship. No scholarship and you try to do college programmer route, the same holds true.

    JMPO, but kids and parents get wrapped up in status. My kid is going to UPenn.
    ~~~ OBTW, I may be confusing my memories(Princeton, Stanford, Harvard and UPenn applications), and it may have changed, but I believe they are not common app. You must be invited to apply.

    Don't lose sight on the fact if you want to be an O1 in the Navy you must graduate from college.

    ROTC as a freshman may be 5-10 hrs a week. When you become a POC it can be 20-30 hrs a week on top of academics. Flight Commanders (don't know the Navy equivalent), write reviews for every cadet/mid. They attend weekly briefings aka stand ups. For our DS it was done one hour prior to PT. He was up at 4:30 a.m. 2x a week to be at the det at 5:30.

    Don't go down this route if you think it is the easiest way to pay the 40K+ cost at UPenn.

    Don't go down this route regarding your major because NROTC gives 85% to STEM.

    I don't know NROTC stats for mids that enter freshman yr, and commission 4 yrs later. For AFROTC it is @25%.

    I said it before, I believe in informing, showing everything.

    Personally, I disagree with dunninla...to a point. I would give the OP big chance for Howard. It is not a powerhouse for NROTC like PSU, Villanova regarding NROTC. They have strong stats for their school.

    I would give them below 50% for Nova and UPenn because academically their stats are on the low end. Villanova is a powerhouse for NROTC. UPenn is an Ivy and USNA applicants will have that school on their plan B (NROTC).

    Can't say it enough...scholarship recipients as freshman are the minority. If ROTC is the only way to pay for the dream college, re-think this path.

    I would also spend the fall visiting every campus. Dets are like colleges they have a unique feel/personality.

    I truly wish you the best!

    OBTW, your DoDMERB exam will be a big player too. Asthma. allergies, vision. surgeries can throw a wrench into your path! Do not lose sight that you need to be medically cleared too. Do you know for DoDMERB purposes they go back to the age of 13? Accutane for acne can be a medical DQ. Peanut allergies can be a DQ. Lactose intolerance can be a DQ. Surgery for a broken arm in 8th grade can be a DQ. Eye sight can be a DQ (color deficiency especially...don't have enough toes/fingers in my family regarding how many found out as a candidate they were color deficient).

    This is a marathon. Prepare yourself for the fact you will not have an answer until APRIL 2014.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2013
  18. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    My responses in bold blue italics. This is all subjective, gut reaction, and really a gestalt of all my impressions about both the ROTC and college admissions processes. 4.0 GPA URM with an engineering/science major and 2000+ SAT is about as good as it gets for NROTC, and for any college other than HYPSM, but no guarantees.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2013
  19. balaenoptera

    balaenoptera New Member

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    I know how competitive of a school Villanova is but I'm sure that I will get in outside of NROTC thank you.

    I also didn't mean persay that I wasn't athletic just that I didn't participate in high school sports mainly because until recently I get sleepy at about 8:00 pm and based on my brothers' football career I know how late practices could potentially get out and thus my grades would take a turn for the worse. My current PFT scores are on the lower end but seeing as I have at least 6 more months I should be able to raise them up greatly.

    I have never had any problems with myself generally no hospital admissions for major surgery or allergies besides like eggplant which is pretty irrelevant.

    I'm likely not to apply early decision to any college because my biggest ultimate factor in choosing my final college is financial age. If I don't get the scholarship at all I will likely still go to Villanova because I have 85% of the tuition off.

    Thank you all for your suggestions and help. I've already filled out the majority of the application I just need to finish up my essays.
     
  20. Thompson

    Thompson Member

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    Take your time on this part. Just because you finished everything else up, doesn't mean you need to sprint to the finish. Like others have said ROTC is a marathon. The essay is one of the places where you, as the applicant, can shine. This is how you show the board how unique and different you are from the rest of the pool of applicants.

    Take the time to write, read, reread, reread, have friends and family read, and reread your essay again. There are threads floating around here regarding essay writing techniques and tips.
     

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