NROTC scholarship real value?

Some schools offer partial refunds of the housing deposit by a certain date - We got enrollment and partial housing refund from one college yesterday. Not sure if nephew will meet those dates for his colleges however, because he is still waiting. But, again, we are talking peanuts compared to $100K or $180K in scholarship funds at stake. We were definitely willing to make that investment to get NROTC at a school that was desirable to our child.

Did you know that Service Academy kids with appointments get to keep their ROTC scholarships until I-Day, if they choose to? And, apparently quite a few do choose to, to give themselves two options in case they change their minds about the Academy at the last minute. So they are in essence tying up two military "scholarship" spots. Not sure why NROTC kids shouldn't be given the option to tie up two college spots as well until a wait list clears, without feeling guilty.
 
Pima - I went to Duke for grad schools and did Cornell NROTC undergrad! Both very expensive, as we know, and my parents could not have afforded such schools either for all four of their kids on a navy officer salary. But, because I did NROTC at Cornell, my parents ended up later offering to pay for MBA tuition at Duke - Very nice of them! Something to think about for our kids in the future, assuming they graduate, get commissioned, and don't miss that 2.5 GPA target! Also assuming that the Navy doesn't pay for grad school for them! My husband ended up staying in the Navy, so they they paid for his grad school - There are so many ways to skin a cat - One of the young posters was correct in saying basically that, "If there's a will, there's a way to get into the Navy for a career and to pay for college." It takes hard work always, good grades in school at the young ages, and good job evals at the older ages! And, being a nice, caring person is always a plus, as everyone on this Forum seems to be!!
 
Becareful of that 2.5 gpa target, I only say that because it might be enough to keep the scholarship, but not enough to get that dream career field assignment when it comes to OML.

The gpa will always be a player. It should never be used as the safety net with the intention at least will keep me on scholarship. I say that because you will owe 4 yrs, 365 days a yr of your life in the AD world, it will stink for you if you didn't realize early on that the gpa played into the decision making factor of you will live those 4 yrs.

Believe it or not the AF paid 75% of my MBA and I was a dependent. It was a program called Spousal Tuition Assistance Program. Bullet didn't even have to commit to owing more time like he had to for his MBA using TA. It was a free grant and all I had to do was show his LES and my enrollment docs. I think in the end it cost us about 5K, I went to a state school where we were stationed at the time. The program mimics the enlisted/officer ratio. If 85% are enlisted, 85% of the pot goes to enlisted. From there undergrad gets the 1st grab, grad gets the second. Since I was an officer's wife not many used the program due to the fact that they did not know of it's existence, and those that did believed incorrectly it was only for undergrad. I am sure that now it is used for grad.

FYI, if you are a military child, there is also the OCSC/ECSC (spouses club) and they give out scholarships every yr. Typically the scholarships range from 500 to 1000 dollars for one yr, but at least something is better than nothing. These applications open up @ Feb., and results occur early May. It is only for military children, and if an installation is near you the GC of your HS will have the applications.
 
oh well

The original intent of this post was to warn students about some of the unwritten "rules of the NROTC" scholarship.

I will answer a few questions, but most of this is not helpful, so it will be few.

As far as the question about wanting to serve, YES! most who apply are sincere in that desire, but there are some who are just looking to pay for school with a built in service afterwards that they do not understand. There are amazing kids winning these scholarships.

As far as number one college....he was told to select first choice, and he did but made calls about not being sure, etc. Was told to just put one down and if you change your mind you can be wait listed at the one you choose and if wait listed early, no problem. He did just that. Reviewed all paperwork on wait lists.....nothing about in state vrs. out of state. When he received the scholarship in late Nov, early DEC, he had not even heard from the 5 colleges. He had heard from one.

?Gaming the system? I don't understand that at all, but if I remember the requirements were apply to 5 colleges, and in going back over his papers I saw nothing about in state vrs. out of state...just 5 NROTC with his major offered (one had dropped NROTC or ROTC all...he was not aware). He was accepted to all 5 and offered various scholarships to all 5. I don't see how that is gaming the system....he did not ASK for scholarships....they just arrived. But, unlike some who hold on to them all until the last minute, he did the right thing by choosing to turn some down quickly so they could be offered to others in a timely manner. Also, as a candidate to the USNA you have to have a strong plan B and he did.

If assigned to one and wait listed at others (him only one), you have NO CHOICE but to pay the fees, and yes, some impose a fine, depending on when you drop housing, etc. That is not gaming the system, but holding on until you get a final decision. Family well aware of paying and not getting money back. It was not easy, but it was done.

What I find funny is that no one mentions how they show up with the big super sized check, and present it with $180,000 on it. Google for some images. Don't you think that is misleading to the recipient, and to other students watching and considering applying for the same?

But after much discussion, he thinks the best decision is to drop the scholarship and go to the school he wants. He made the choice that the school is most important to him, over the scholarship. He can be with the NROTC unit he likes, participate in the honors program offered to him, and more. He can continue to reach his goals and he will. He wants to GO NAVY from this school. He will apply for other scholarships, etc, and is not interested in the NROTC scholarships....3 year, 2 year, etc. He has fought most of this battle to get the truth, but there are times when he has NO TIME to make calls etc. during "office hours" because of sports and senior year responsibilities, etc. I have NO PROBLEM making calls and helping him get the answers. He worked hard to get this far (like many others here) so I can help him in that manner, it is the least that I can do.

The people who end up trying to explain all of the hidden rules are the people at Pensacola, and I think they have a tough job. It should not be that way, it should not land on them to explain all of the rules. So he has added another step...he will speak to the person(s) who offered the scholarship, and make suggestions so that this confusion does not continue. As said before the AFROTC seems to have a better grasp of this, perhaps. To be wait listed in December, and not told until mid April about the inability to change to out of state........that should not happen IMO. The REAL process should be explained far in advance.

What would be great is if the kids that work so hard to get one of these 4 year scholarships, could use it at the school they choose. Some get these scholarships and end up not making it into the school they put down as first choice. Then parents have to scramble to find a school with a NROTC opening.

Final answer: Just be aware of the rules if your apply for NROTC scholarships. They may not REALLY be worth $180,000 and put down the school you want to attend as first choice, and one that you can get into because once assigned may be tough to move it.....due to all of the rules.

THE $180,000 looks good, but may not be the real offer. Just be aware. FYI.
 
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Thanks for the update about nephew - Good luck to him!

PIMA - Good info on spouse education benefits - and scholarships - THANKS! Makes me realize even more that the military really does offer good financial opportunities to encourage education.

And, advice well taken about the 2.5 minimum GPA for NROTC - Definitely set your goals higher. But, I just saw so many friends struggle with engineering courses in college - It's a tough degree. While I may not tell him this, I will be happy if my son just survives! He will understand that his GPA could affect his career choices up graduation, but the truth is that I will be proud if he just finishes his engineering degree. I could not have done it! I took the easy route - Econ major with lots of history, government, language, and business courses. Engineering is hard, like pre-med, and many kids drop out. During our visit to VA Tech, the tour guide joked about how the Business School lines up tables outside the engineering building to recruit freshman engineers as they walk out devastated after their mid-terms and finals!
 
DocDadGoat,

Your final answer advice is very good, although less about the rules and more about common sense.

Make sure you select schools, all 5 of them, that you are willing to attend. Don't put a school at the top of the list that you think may be easy to receive a scholarship to thinking that you can easily transfer to the one you really want. The budget will have a lot to do with what school is offered in the future boards.

Also, make sure the schools you list are schools you can gain addmittance to.

NROTC asks that you list at least one State school, there is a reason for this, that reason has been made clear this year with many applicants receiving scholarships to in state schools.

Forget about the $180,000.00 amount listed for the scholarship. The amount is clearly written that it is "Up to $180,000.00", they do not just hand you a check.

Military regulations can change overnight, you will need to learn to become very flexible. While scholarship applicants have the option to decline an offer to go to a different school, you will not have such options once you are commissioned. If you don't like your assignment or duty station you won't be able to tell your command "Thanks, but no thanks".

It is naive to site unwritten rules as the reason somethings don't work out the way they were planned. The "rules" for the scholarship process are fluid and can change mid stream. The Army's process changed after the first board had met throwing everyone for a loop. It's less about unwritten rules and more about what are the rules today, because tomorrow they may be different.

Out of the Thousands of applicants for all the services only a few scholarships were offered. The awards did not work out for everyone the way they had planned and many had adjustments and hard decisions to make, it will be the same next year.
 
jcleppe for you

Jcleppe said:
DocDadGoat,

Your final answer advice is very good, although less about the rules and more about common sense.

"Make sure you select schools, all 5 of them, that you are willing to attend. Don't put a school at the top of the list that you think may be easy to receive a scholarship to thinking that you can easily transfer to the one you really want. The budget will have a lot to do with what school is offered in the future boards."

I do not know anyone who would apply to a school that they do not want to attend. But there will be some schools that appear great, and perhaps on a second visit..not so good. You must have missed what I said. HS Seniors applying for these scholarships ARE misled. You can deny it, but it happens. And yes, future budget may change many things. But I am talking about now and what students applying should be aware of...

"Also, make sure the schools you list are schools you can gain addmittance to"
.YES, good point and most students do this. Nephew was told five and all five were a yes with scholarships offered to each. Could you tell WHERE it states anything about an instate school? Nephew's paperwork does not spell that out that I can see, and there was no verbal information in that regard.

"NROTC asks that you list at least one State school, there is a reason for this, that reason has been made clear this year with many applicants receiving scholarships to in state schools."

Again where was this stated? He was told any school, any state and we can't find anything about instate. This is the current information as of April 2011 on the NROTC web site .
"Applicants are asked to pick five colleges or universities on their scholarship application. Each school must be for a different NROTC unit and one must be a state school, not necessarily in the candidate’s home state.[[/U

]B]So nephew did as asked....and 3 of the 5 are "state" schools, with one being in his home state. MAYBE NROTC BETTER FIX THIS STAT BEFORE MORE ARE MISLED? DO YOU NOT FIND THIS MISLEADING? AGAIN THIS IS THE APRIL 2011 INFORMATION ONLINE.[/B]


"Forget about the $180,000.00 amount listed for the scholarship. The amount is clearly written that it is "Up to $180,000.00", they do not just hand you a check."

Actually they do hand you a big huge check in front of your student body with this amount written on it. Nephew knew room and board was not covered. This is what NROTC ad (and his paperwork both provided by NROTC at his high school said.
"NROTC SCHOLARSHIP
180,000 for college tuition.
Graduate with minimal debt
At any of 160 colleges nationwide."
IT DOES NOT STATE "UP TO" 180,000. I guess the NROTC should fix their handouts to high school students, also. Why deceive? Does this deception prepare him for future deception is that the intent? So you admit they lied in the handouts provided to HS students?

"Military regulations can change overnight, you will need to learn to become very flexible. While scholarship applicants have the option to decline an offer to go to a different school, you will not have such options once you are commissioned. If you don't like your assignment or duty station you won't be able to tell your command "Thanks, but no thanks". "

You must assume that there are no one in the family has served. You assume wrong. This reality is well known and your statement is rude to someone who served. I loved serving my country and I am just as proud as he will be of doing the same.

"It is naive to site unwritten rules as the reason somethings don't work out the way they were planned. The "rules" for the scholarship process are fluid and can change mid stream. The Army's process changed after the first board had met throwing everyone for a loop. It's less about unwritten rules and more about what are the rules today, because tomorrow they may be different."

Perhaps the fluid "we can change anything at any time" should be stated in writing. Also perhaps a written statement "We really don't mean to honor what you are appying for" should be written. Nephew is going by WRITTEN MATERIAL not unwritten rules. YOU are providing the unwritten rules

"Out of the Thousands of applicants for all the services only a few scholarships were offered. The awards did not work out for everyone the way they had planned and many had adjustments and hard decisions to make, it will be the same next year"

He was honored to receive the scholarship, but he should receive what was presented to him, in writing when he applied and led to believe about wait lists and what is stated about wait lists in what is WRITTEN in his scholarship book. Thanks jcleppe as you have made me realize what a deception the scholarship really is, and I am glad he has chosen to go for what he wants without it.
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But one thing not addressed is, many students should also apply for other scholarships at schools desired, as although nephew was offered several, there were some he could have applied for but because of the "BIG REVELATION" in April, it is too late for this year.
So again, students, be aware of what the reality is with the NROTC scholarship. According to Jcleppe, they can twist it and turn it into anything and do the same with you. Good luck!
 
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DocDadGoat said:
But one thing not addressed is, many students should also apply for other scholarships at schools desired, as although nephew was offered several, there were some he could have applied for but because of the "BIG REVELATION" in April, it is too late for this year.
So again, students, be aware of what the reality is with the NROTC scholarship. According to Jcleppe, they can twist it and turn it into anything and do the same with you. Good luck!
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Wow, well I guess that about sums it up then.
 
Thanks for agreeing

Jcleppe, thanks for agreeing. I sincerely hope that the NROTC will fix all of the misinformation that is IN WRITING and given to HS students and to scholarship recepients. It is a deception.
 
Still not sure I understand why nephew is not staying on the NROTC wait list through the summer at the school in which he is enrolling? I understand the frustrations, but why not wait it out on the NROTC wait list rolls and see if he can't get the transfer done even as late as August, after the dust settles? Kids drop out of NROTC at the last minute for the Academies and other random reasons all the time. I heard that from every school my son was considering, except Villanova and Univ of San Diego, where the units are always very popular and full. Maybe an OOS kid at nephew's school will drop NROTC in August at the last minute, or NROTC Pensacola will feel inclined to add an OOS spot at the last minute to make nephew happy. You just don't know. It seems worth a try - especially if he wants to do the NROTC program anyway. I feel like he is giving up before the "fight" is over.

I just read on the Army ROTC forum that a kid got transferred from in-state to Ivy League. Different service, I know, but similar budget constraints. Maybe Navy would do the same for your nephew, to his OOS school, if he/you remain persistent but patient at the same time.
 
DocDadGoat said:
Jcleppe, thanks for agreeing. I sincerely hope that the NROTC will fix all of the misinformation that is IN WRITING and given to HS students and to scholarship recepients. It is a deception.
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OK, my bad for even taking the time to read these posts, I guess it's like passing a wreck - you know you don't really want to see it but you can't help but look. Obviously there are BIG differences in opinion and so I think everyone on this link needs to just agree to disagree.
 
bjc said:
OK, my bad for even taking the time to read these posts, I guess it's like passing a wreck - you know you don't really want to see it but you can't help but look. Obviously there are BIG differences in opinion and so I think everyone on this link needs to just agree to disagree.
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Sorry you had to slow down and view the train wreck, sorry bad attempt at humor.

All I wanted to do was to make sure future applicants that come here for information are not under the assumption that they will be, as it was put, deceived at every turn.

I am truely sorry that the scholarship did not turn out like he had hoped.

There is no agree or disagree, the information posted is good for everyone to read and be aware of, accusing the Navy of misleading applicants because a transfer was not approved is a bit much. Every case is different, many transfers were accepted. The overall advise that was given is good, make sure you ask a lot of questions, and questions about transfers should be one of the first ones asked. I never disagreed with the advise, just the tone in which it was presented.

The denied transfer, non award of scholarship, or scholarship to a 2nd or 3rd choice school will not be the first disappointment the future cadets will have, either in ROTC or the Military. And no, I am not being rude or assuming that someone has never served, I am directing that comment to the applicant that has yet to serve.
 
LTLONGAGO said:
During our visit to VA Tech, the tour guide joked about how the Business School lines up tables outside the engineering building to recruit freshman engineers as they walk out devastated after their mid-terms and finals!
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DD attends VT and she has said that too. She has many friends who on the 1st day of classes came home with a long face compared to kids like her in Psych/Soc who were pumped.

Why? They were told look to the left, look right. One of you will not graduate as an engineer. Her female friends were even more disheartened because the prof went onto say and if you are a female the odds of graduating is 1 out of 3, instead of 2 out of 3.:eek:

Have to be honest, to me as a Mom of a DD I thought that was a very sexist comment!

BACK on topic.

What I find interesting is like LTLONGAGO stated, why not wait. I would have to say after being here for 3 yrs., it is uncommon not to get the transfer. It is frightening this yr especially because the budget constraints DOD is currently feeling, so I would think this might be the yr that you will not see many of them, but in previous yrs it was common. Many posters here have experienced it. Some elect not to go through this process because to drop deposits at multiple colleges can be very costly.

docgoatdad,

congrats for your nephew on making his decision. I truly hope it works out for him. In case you didn't understand why some opt for the NROTC scholarship over no scholarship when money really isn't the game player (merit money usually happens for the majority of ROTC scholarship recipients), it is about getting advance standing as a C300.

If you do not get advanced standing you cannot get commissioned. Again due to budgetary and manpower reasons this is becoming a very common occurrence. It is the belief, right or wrong that at least on scholarship they have an upper hand when it comes to that point. I don't believe it does necessarily, what I do believe is that scholarship recipients usually make this marker for 1 reason...their gpa from minute one is tied to that scholarship, fall under the min., and they lose it. Money for school is a big motivator for many kids.

DS is AFROTC scholarship and he also received merit from the school. The school's min gpa is lower than the AFROTC. AFROTC if I recall correctly is 2.8, and the school is 2.5. Translation if he only followed the merit min and not the AFROTC min he would have been SOL for SFT, and that would equate into no commissioning.

OBTW as I stated to LTLONGAGO, don't ever just do the min., you need to beat it and big time. DS has a 3.4+ cgpa as a jr.

It is clear to see NROTC is following suit of AFROTC. Scholarships are getting harder to get and they are cutting things. If I read correctly on a post, your nephew since he is not a NROTC scholarship recipient will now not even be eligible for a summer cruise. Another thing that tallies into that 180K total which you may not be putting into the equation.

When he goes up for that career field board and they have 1 spot left between 2 people (1 being him), somebody is going to be left out in the cold.

Now suppose it is between him and another mid who is NROTC scholarship with an equivalent gpa, and did a summer cruise, where your nephew did not do the cruise. Who do you think they will pick? Ten will get you twenty the mid on scholarship and that cruise was a player in the equation.

Anyone who has ever served or been closely associated with anyone that served (i.e. spouse) knows for a successful military career you do not plan 1 step ahead, you always plan 2 steps ahead. You take an assignment for the fact that it will get you to the next assignment in a better position. You always think about how to make the next rank or position when you are just entering that position. Bullet jumped with the 82nd as an AF ALO, not because of any other reason than it was to get the next step which was flying the F-15E at Elmendorf and as an X in his PRF for joint assignment which would make him more competitive for PME (military grad school). That 82nd tour got him both. He took Pentagon tour because he was winding down his career and it was time to build his network for his 2nd career. There was still one more assignment that we would do prior to retiring, so again it was thinking 2 steps ahead. The PME was done prior to Pentagon and it was done for that last assignment choice, again 2 steps process.

In this day and age as an officer you need a short term goal that will result in obtaining your long term career goal.

Best wishes, thank him for his desire to serve and protect this great nation.
 
LTLONGAGO in case you don't know they changed the GI Bill a few yrs ago and now it can be used for a dependents education not just the military member.

So yes, it is very clear to see that the military is probably the best employer out there when it comes to obtaining a higher degree.

My good friend's DD is attending Duke on her Dad's GI.

Our cousin attended UPitt for his J.D. on his GI.
 
My husband did look into that new GI bill for dependents a few years ago, but I think that we do not qualify for some reason. I think it had to do with specific years served on active duty (i.e., the fine print). Definitely a good tip for everyone who has served active duty. I probably should re-investigate, just to be sure, now that we have teenagers, and my second child seems less likely to be interested in ROTC or academies. Thanks for the advice.
 
Our friend's DD is an O5 dependent she is not in ROTC.

Her dad did not retire until this yr and she will graduate in 12, so he used it as an AD member for the past 3 yrs.

Bullet and I did the "CRAP, had we known that" moment because he retired 1 day prior to it coming on board. It was October 2008. Yep, official retirement date was Sept 30th (Fiscal yr starts Oct 1), had we not sold back leave it would have put him in October. Again, how not thinking 2 steps ahead can cost you!

I think though there is something in the fine print, I believe the GI is an option and not a guarantee re:benefits given and paying into the system. If I am correct it would be advisable for AD members to investigate now how to transfer the bennies to your child. I would assume the education office on any installation can give guidance in this issue.

I know for out processing they go through everything, so TAP may also be a good resource too.
 
Off Topic:

Why? They were told look to the left, look right. One of you will not graduate as an engineer. Her female friends were even more disheartened because the prof went onto say and if you are a female the odds of graduating is 1 out of 3, instead of 2 out of 3.

Have to be honest, to me as a Mom of a DD I thought that was a very sexist comment!
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Pima: I am sure you know this but the prof was simply stating statistics. It has nothing to do with female intelligence in the math/science/engineering field. It has more to do with more women deciding they don't want to be engineers. When I was going through engineering a long time ago I remember two women that changed majors after their sophomore year. Both had a significantly higher gpa than I did. They just decided they didn't want to be engineers.
 
Appreciate the honesty here

There is much about this discussion that is honest.
My DS just jumped off the SA rollercoaster, and now on to the NROTC scholarship roller coaster.
This is stated in his information:
"Applicants are asked to pick five colleges or universities on their scholarship application. Each school must be for a different NROTC unit and one must be a state school, not necessarily in the candidate’s home state." This is also what my DS's paperwork says from his recruiter which is the same as another poster. "NROTC SCHOLARSHIP 180,000 for college tuition. Graduate with minimal debt At any of 160 colleges nationwide." I do not see "up to 180,000" anywhere. Also, in the congrats letter, nothing about "up to 180,000" He applied based upon the information provided.
He applied to 7 colleges with NROTC and was never told anything about in state tuition value vrs. out of state tuition value or perhaps in state school vrs. out of state schools. He was also led to believe that if he wait listed early (he really did not know what his first choice was) he could change schools fairly easily. He had not visited all schools when he applied for NROTC scholarship. He made a first choice and that is where scholarship was assigned. After visiting all schools he wait listed at two in Jan. as it became clear of what his first place choices were. I checked wait listed information in scholarship packet and it states "order in which received."
Now we are told there are 4 wait lists for each college....in state, out of state, and 2 more (sorry I forget the other two). We were told that in state students will move ahead of him which we just recently found out. If that is our one issue it is not about dollar amount, it is about in state and out of state schools...as that is where we see nothing mentioned and feel very confused. His paperwork mentions ONE wait list, and that he would be moved up in the order openings became available.
So was there a change of information that we did not receive where all of the in state and out of state came in to play? Both schools he desires are not private schools but would require out of state tuition. He has other scholarship offers that almost cover the out of state tuition.
I think one of the two schools where he is wait listed has "cleared" or is final. The other one looks doubtful. So right now still with school applied to and waiting on other two. Someone said that is gaming the system, but I really don't see how we have another choice?
There is also discussion in posts (and maybe I am reading wrong) that cadets on scholarship are chosen over other cadets for some advancements. That is confusing, because many here did not get a scholarship and it would seem it they went to their school and did NROTC and did great academically, and excelled in their NROTC unit, I would think they would be equally competitive at the end of their 4 year college run for what is offered?
Yes, there is confusion here and I also hope the NROTC gets out future information that is more accurate. We were told something about a federal requirement and I see nothing written about federal requirements in the offer.
DS is hanging on to scholarship, but really will hate missing other schools if wait list does not move his to one of the schools he wants. Just have to see what happens...but so much confusion for all with graduation in less than a month.
Also, are some of you saying AFROTC scholarship is more definative?
 
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I agree Packer with your assertion.

I will not go further because the fear the thread will become more about this issue and not about the OP's position.

Granted I stray, but I try to always bring it back on topic.

Back on topic.

Navy failed in the OP's eyes, it is their right and we should respect it. Hopefully the Navy has a poster or lurker on this forum to say: here's the temp.

MPO, they would have better results if they got on their roof and screamed. The NROTC program has heard for yrs that the system has flaws, but in their perspective it is a better system than the AFROTC.

Have to say one thing I am with re:docgoatdad, is I think AFROTC has the best. To this day nobody has ever explained why scholarships are tied to colleges and not just the candidate.
 
So agree with tied to candidates

I also think and wish it were that way! These kids work so hard to win one and I wish they could use it where they feel they fit best. It is hard to know that answer for sure when they apply in Aug/Sept.
 
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