NROTC Without Sports?

collegesomeday said:
I took a look at the interview sheet that the interviewers use to grade applicants and it seems that they're really understanding about part-time jobs and the inability to get rides home from extracurriculars there. There is a lot of physical fitness stuff on the sheet and I think that my current exercise routine should demonstrate my fitness pretty well. I couldn't be the only kid who goes rotc who hasn't been able to play a sport due to financial and home commitments.
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I certainly concur with that statement. It's not impossible, just difficult. Folks have done it in the past. Folks here just want you to make the attempt with eyes wide open. Good luck! :thumb:
 
My parents offered to let me take martial arts lessons (my sister already takes them at the same time so this is one of the only options for athletics on the table). However, I would simply be a high-level white belt by June, when I plan on submitting my application. Will this help me at all or is it a waste of money? I think that I will put down that I will do cross-country in the fall.
 
collegesomeday said:
My parents offered to let me take martial arts lessons (my sister already takes them at the same time so this is one of the only options for athletics on the table). However, I would simply be a high-level white belt by June, when I plan on submitting my application. Will this help me at all or is it a waste of money? I think that I will put down that I will do cross-country in the fall.
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No matter how you slice it, individual athletic activities are not "team sports". The military isn't just looking for the fitness level the athlete has, they actually seek out "the type of person" that plays team sports. Cross Country, though a great sport, is an individual sport rather than a "team" sport. It seems from your posts you have every excuse in the world as to why you have little to no team sport experience. That may speak volumes.

If you show up to softball conditioning this spring, I bet you make the team. It doesn't matter if you don't get a lot of playing time. Training with the team and sitting on the bench will make you a better leader than wearing a karate gi to the dojo three nights a week.
 
Harsh. I'd caution against making judgments from behind the safety of your computer screen. None of us know the family situations or dynamics of the applicants.

I'm not sure this dead horse can be beaten anymore.

And re "individual" vs "team" sports. I believe this does a huge disservice to athletes that participate and train in multitudes of sports. For example, many consider swimming an individual sport because of the competition/meet format. I'd encourage you to reconsider. I guarantee my son and his teammates push each other and encourage each other through 10K yard workouts, 5am practices (every single morning during the summer), doubles, etc.
 
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txpotato said:
Harsh. I'd caution against making judgments from behind the safety of your computer screen. None of us know the family situations or dynamics of the applicants.

I'm not sure this dead horse can be beaten anymore.

And re "individual" vs "team" sports. I believe this does a huge disservice to athletes that participate and train in multitudes of sports. For example, many consider swimming an individual sport because of the competition/meet format. I'd encourage you to reconsider. I guarantee my son and his teammates push each other and encourage each other through 10K yard workouts, 5am practices (every single morning during the summer), doubles, etc.
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Your absolutely correct of course. But it still is not the same as everyone, or a good number of the team members, must effectively execute at the same time or in sequence in order to successfully complete a play. eg football, baseball, basketball. This from a Dad whose son was a wrestler. Yup, they encouraged each other, bonded at practice, etc. But it's not the same quality. However, if those are the sports you're good at and enjoy then those are the sports you do.

I think the point being made is what the academy would ideally like to see, and why, and not to belittle other sports.
 
Txpotato -- I get what you're saying as my DS is also a swimmer. It's both an individual and team sport in one. At his swim meets, only 3 of 12 events are team relays in which 4 swimmers work in sequence (much like track relays). Not a great percentage, and cannot be compared to football/baseball/basketball, etc, but a team effort nonetheless.
 
As I've said before, school sports/varsity athletics simply will not work for me, except for perhaps cross country next year because they're willing to work with my difficult schedule. My experience as a newspaper editor and debate team captain has given me far more leadership training (you try convincing teenagers to give up their Saturdays for public speaking!) than sitting on the bench at a softball team, and I think that this will be seen, will it not? Shouldn't doing martial arts and explaining my two-hour-a-day fitness routine suffice for the athletics category?
 
To answer college's question.

I would join right now TKD. The fact is something is better than nothing. Placing x country for fall is still a sport that you are not on currently. You are basically saying trust me I will be compared to I am.

Our DS did TKD competitively for years. AFROTC had no problem awarding him a scholarship with that as his sport. One big reason is TKD is year round, whereas, traditional high school sports are about 5 months.
~ It shows commitment, and that is a big thing they are looking for when selecting. It is not just being physically fit, it is about history being a predictor of the future. A commitment to stick with something in their eyes. At least that was how our DS's ALO explained it to him.

ABF, I agree with the other posters. In fact many of these sports that you see are individual are actually also team. To win points for advancing to districts, all of the individuals need to work together in winning their match.
~~~ Look at the Olympics, using gymnstics as an example. The points from each indivual event are tallied, and from there they decide who will compete for all round.

I would also say from an AFROTC, not NROTC perspective individual sports also bring another aspect that they are looking for....self motivation. The ability to set and strive for goals.

My perspective for why they want sports comes down to a very simplistic reason which I already stated. Commitment outside of the classroom. Time management too.

College,
I know you think your ECs show this, and it does, but you will be co,petting against USNA candidates too.

USNA And NROTC do not talk when it comes to scholarship selection. They have just as much as you on the EC level, plus sports. This will be their plan B, and for many it will become plan A.

The thing is unless I missed it somewhere you have not stated your school selection list. Some colleges are highly demanded and although academically the school may admit you, NROTC may not have a scholarship available for you. That means if you need the money to attend, you need to find a way to attend or ask for the scholarship to be transferred.
 
collegesomeday said:
As I've said before, school sports/varsity athletics simply will not work for me, except for perhaps cross country next year because they're willing to work with my difficult schedule. My experience as a newspaper editor and debate team captain has given me far more leadership training (you try convincing teenagers to give up their Saturdays for public speaking!) than sitting on the bench at a softball team, and I think that this will be seen, will it not? Shouldn't doing martial arts and explaining my two-hour-a-day fitness routine suffice for the athletics category?
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No one here sits on the admissions board. You will not get it if you don't go for it, regardless of doing sports or not. I do know of people who had no sports and were appointed. Draw your own conclusions at this point. Good luck to you! :thumb:
 
Thanks Pima, that's encouraging to hear! My school list is UCLA, UVA, South Carolina, Yale, and UPenn (these last two I probably won't get into which is why they're at the bottom... should still be able to transfer the scholarship there). I'm out of state for UCLA and UVA and South Carolina would give me in-state-tuition plus some with my stats (4.0, at least 2200 SAT). I like UCLA and UVA most though and these would be unaffordable without the scholarship. Although of course I would still do the program without the scholarship and hope to get it, I don't think that I could go to UCLA or UVA and hope to be a lucky college programmer who gets the scholarship for the last couple of years- if I'm unlucky and don't get it, I don't want to be in hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt. Unfortunately, my state school doesn't offer NROTC, and every school I'm looking at that does will be mighty expensive if I don't get the scholarship.
 
Posted with college.

I understand your position, honestly, I do, but I think you don't want to hear/read the truth, as much as you want us to say we agree with your position.

The fact is the debate team may meet on Sat., just like baseball, but the thing is the bench warmer still has athletics on their resume. You do not.

The board is not going to see bench warmer, they are going to see athletics. Not everyone can be Captain of a team and they know it.

Our cousin is a BGO, and he has to say to candidates all the time, WHAT ELSE do you have because everyone and their brother/sister has 250 community service hours, NHS, NMSF, SGA, etc. What sets you apart from them...iows what is your hook?

Tell us what is your hook to overcome the athletic portion. Scholarship selection is about the same rate as appointment, around 16%.

Not to be Debbie downer, just trying to get you to understand that when posters seem harsh in their opinions it is from the perspective of understanding there are nuances in the process.
 
Like I've said before... Not everything I post is warm and fuzzy. It's not all "affirmations". Sometimes the truth is hard to hear.
 
I hope kinnem responds to your list since his DS is at SC.

I have to say from a poster that lives in VA, UVA for admittance from OOS maybe a reach. VA only allows 25-30% OOS. Your stats are on par for IS applicants, including your ECs.

UVA is ranked number 2 nationally for public universities. It is commonly referred to as a public ivy.

I would also remind you that NROTC gives out 85% of their scholarship to STEM majors. Your chances of getting a scholarship with no sports will dramatically decrease if you want to major in govt.
 
My hook? Well, I think my academic statistics are really solid. I'll have been president/founder of one club for three years and president of two others for two years by the time I'm a senior. My clubs aren't joke clubs either, like art or multicultural or whatever... they obviously show commitment. I'm on two leadership councils. I have a part-time job. I'm extremely self-disciplined... doing two hours of physical fitness workouts a day in addition to four APs and so much leadership is pretty impressive I would think. I think that the length of time that I've held leadership positions and a part-time job shows tons of commitment, and the extra fitness training (plus martial arts most likely) will prove that I'm quite self-disciplined and serious about meeting fitness standards. I've clearly done as much as I've possibly can considering my current situations (can't get rides home at 5 from practices, all my friends live in the other direction!).
 
My high school has a very strong history of getting kids into UVA... someone got in last year with a 1910 and with far lesser ECs than me. That's also why UCLA is first on the list... they're desperate for OOS money, unlike UVA. I'm planning on doing a Tier 2 major, probably statistics, so I'm within that 85%.
 
Well, at least you have 1 good school on your list.... South Carolina! :rolleyes:

I expect with your stats you would be eligible for a Woodrow Scholarship from the college (see their web site) which will bring tuition down to near in-state rates. Additionally, and I don't know if they still do this, the NROTC alumni association provides scholarships to NROTC college programmers who successfully complete freshman orientation, which is the equivalent of the Woodrow Scholarship. Check with the cadre there as things may have changed, especially since they have changed the way they handle freshman orientation. Their criteria may have changed.

For the Woodrow scholarship you will need to maintain a 3.0 GPA. If an NROTC high school scholarship doesn't come through then participating as a college programmer there and applying for an in-school scholarship might be a viable alternative. That's the route my DS took for Marine option when he did not get an NROTC high school scholarship.
 
Inspirational posts

@collegesomeday - I came back across some inspirational posts on the forum that I thought would be appropriate to share with you.

This first one is from Pima's husband (as will become clear when you read it) and brought a tear to my eye as I re-read it today: http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showpost.php?p=171693&postcount=1

And this second one is the most recent post on the same thread which certainly seems to be applicable to your situation: http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showpost.php?p=352445&postcount=29
 
College,

No offense, but those are not hooks.

I am going to be harsh. Those are average ECs in todays applicant world.

Hooks are something that nobody else has to fill the square for them.
~ I.E. national debate team! National robotics award.
~~~~ Before you use your classmate as an example, they may have had a hook. They could be 1/4 Native American. They could have been a legacy. Their essay of overcoming something tragic could have been a hook. 1910 in VA would be the At this time...letter.

Have you looked at naviance? Have you joined collegconfidentual.com? UVA from my understanding does not talk to ROTC for admission. IOWS you could get the NROTC scholarship, but not the admission acceptance.

More harsh reality. My kids 4 APs is not a hook. Your competition will have 8 or 9 and a ton of ECs too. Our DD's hook was her rising senior summer she was a volunteer at summer sleep away camp for Young Life as a Life Guard working with disadvantage kids. She is not in ROTC. Her sophomore year she went to summer camp with young life to train for a month. ~~~Again, commitment is being illustrated.
~~ She had hundreds of hours for volunteering at the local soup kitchen on Saturdays throughout her entire high school career.
~~~ She rode horses as her athletics since she was 8.
~~~ Had her life saving and CPR certificate.
~~~ She was in both AP and IB courses, plus the AICE program.{Cambridge). Graduate Magna Cum Laude in her class. I believe she had 9 AP/IBs.
~~~ French Honor Society, Booster club, SADD, etc on her his transcript.

Her ACT best sitting was 28, she took it once. Her SAT super for M/V was 1310. She did not apply to UVA, VT was her dream. She was deferred for ED as in state applicant.

Just saying, I think you don't realize yet how competitive it is in VA. OBTW, her cgpa was on a 7 point scale.

Are you an NMSF recipient. If so, you need to place it on your resume. If you don't know what it is than you are not NMSF.
~ NMSF and NMF are hooks. Take a look at those college websites under the stats. They typically state the % of students that are because it is a selling point academically.
~ You also should know NMSF traditionally translates into the big merit scholarships at each college. It is their recruiting tool.

I am going to say this in kindness, but it is time for you to be realistic, and instead of defending yourself...this is not a debate you are partaking in, and trying to win... Take heed to those that have experience in this process.

We are more than happy' to eat crow.

I just think that you are entrenched in your defense to such a point that this is becoming a futile exercise. You believe that your stats, and circumstances are unique to overcome the lack of sports. Posters that have been here a long time disagree with you. Your resume is strong, but it is not OMG the best thing since hot sliced bread. It is you are a contender.

Looking at your list I can see an NROTC scholarship being offered, but no admittance to the colleges. I.E.Yale is a high reach for you with a 2200 and 4 APs, but maybe not so much for NROTC scholarship since they are not powerhouses like Notre Same, UCLA, etc where they have no problem filling those slates.

Kinnem, the tear in your eye is because now after years in the system it has hit home and you see something different than when he wrote it 2 years ago. You are now seeing the end of the ROTC tunnel, and all of the great things that are yet to come. The best will be commissioning. My heart still stops when I relive that day, watching Bullet commission our DS. The ups and downs over four years were worth that two minutes watching the torch passed from a father to a son.
 
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I was talking about what I would put on an NROTC application. I'm taking four APs this year, one I'm self-studying for, I took one last year, and I will take four more senior year. I was one point away from NMSF, my state is the single hardest to get the award in. I was also sick when I took it. I have been getting 2350+ on old SATs that I've been practicing with so 2200 is conservative I think. Trust me, I've spent a ton of time on college confidential and understand what I'm up against. My understanding was that if you are awarded the scholarship early on (which is why I plan to submit my application in June or so) and made first board I would likely be assigned to the first school on the list and could later transfer it to a different school if it wasn't filled up.
 
And thank you for that story, kinnem. It's nice to know that if things don't work out with this scholarship I will still have great options that will eventually allow me to join the Navy as an officer free of college debt.
 
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