number appointed Vs graduating

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by SA2017, Dec 15, 2011.

  1. SA2017

    SA2017 Member

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    This was posted by "DUNNILA" on another thread. I did not want to Hijack the thread-but I had a question about what DUNNILA posted. so I started a new thread.

    "These following numbers are fictitious, but illustrate the point:

    Appointments offered: 1500
    Appointments accepted: 1175
    Report on I-Day: 1165
    Pass Physical: 1155
    Remain in Program after Plebe Summer: 1140
    Graduate in 4 years: 975


    Percentage wise would you say that all five of the academies are the same (not raw number-just percentage)
     
  2. Tobes

    Tobes Member

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    He states these numbers are fictious,meaning just for the sake of the aurgument. These numbers are most likely not correct as they do not come from USNA
     
  3. SA2017

    SA2017 Member

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    numbers

    I did read that they are factitious. I wasn't asking if these numbers were exact.:rolleyes:

    In general I am asking -across the 5 acadamies is the percetnage of those who leave after Plebe summer/ beast/ etc about the same? and is the percentage of those who graduate after accepting their appointment the same?
     
  4. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    The attrition rate of around 15% , give or take a couple of % points (from first day of class to commissioning) seems to be consistent at both Annapolis and West Point recently. I haven't read about USAFA. some posters here have indicated that the attrition rate a decade or two ago was over 20%, even up to 25%. Civilian college attrition rates can vary from 4% to 50%.
     
  5. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    Most colleges have more than 50% attrition AND most are now using 5, 6, even 7 years as timeframe to graduate.
     
  6. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    CGA is around 30%. My class started with around 300 finished with about 205.
     
  7. navy2016

    navy2016 Member

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    This is one of the factors of why I favor USNA over USMMA.
     
  8. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Because your more likely to graduate from USNA?
     
  9. Hurricane12

    Hurricane12 USNA 2012

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    Higher chance of graduating? :confused:

    I'm sorry, but that's a little strange to me, unless you're looking at it as a (very flawed) means of gauging MIDN happiness. Especially as the administration is becoming less forgiving to conduct/honor offenses and AC unsats in order to "trim the fat" over the next couple years, the graduation percentage is probably going to dip a little.

    Since you're hopefully not planning on being deficient in conduct/honor/academic/PT, the higher chance of graduating shouldn't matter. Don't worry what the bottom 10, or 20, or whatever percent is doing. Go ahead and work hard and kick *** anyway.
     
  10. navy2016

    navy2016 Member

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    Failure to graduate just scares me. I guess I wouldn't be considered the high risk type to get kicked out. In hs, i never had a discipline referral, never cheated, never stolen anything, never made a below a B, never saw much amusement in partying/ busy social life ...... Yet I am just scared if I was separated form the academy, I would fail everyone that worked so hard to help me get appointed. Of course I didn't expect to get LOA to both USNA and USMMA. Also, I am deadset on serving in the Navy or USMC. If I go to KP, I still plan on commissioning into the naval forces.
     
  11. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Well good luck! You're internal push will help you along the way, not graduation statistics.

    You may also want to talk to some people about Marine Corps v. Navy. I realize they both have officer corps fed by USNA, but the two services are VERY different.
     
  12. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    What is the attrition rate at USMMA?

    P.S. This is part serious and part just joking around... but for every person who undertstands exactly what a Merchant Mariner is, you have 1000 who understand what a Navy Sailor or Marine Soldier is. It would be frustrating, to me at least, that virtually nobody understood what my service branch did without me taking five minutes to explain it.
     
  13. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Well, the first thing you don't want to do is refer to Marines as "Marine Soldiers". And because we've already had an issue with the label "Coast Guarder"....I'll just clear it up here.


    United States Army = soldier
    United States Marine Corps = Marine
    United States Navy = sailor
    United States Air Force = airman
    United States Coast Guard = Coast Guardsman


    Per AP Style; soldier, sailor and airman are not capitalized, while Marine and Coast Guardsman are.

    Also keep in mind, the U.S. Merchant Marine Academy isn't a specific branch. Midshipmen are Navy Reserves. They have the option of commissioning into other services with a number of slots available.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2011
  14. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    ^ thanks.

    Re: "Coast Guarder", I predict that will become standard within the next 50 years, and here's why:

    -What do you call a Mailman? You don't, since women are not men, the term has changed to Mail Carrier.

    What to you call a stewardess? Again, you don't as there are plenty of men in the profession, and rather than having to always say Stewardess or Steward, or an inclusive Steward/ess, that term has officially changed to Flight Attendant.

    What to you can an Airman who isn't a man? -- yes, still airman, but that too will eventually change ... perhaps to Flyer, or something else.

    What do you call a female doctor -- no, not a Female Doctor, just Doctor

    What do you call a Male Nurse --- nope, just Nurse (Ask Aglahad how frustrating THAT is being a male who is a nurse)

    the list goes on and on.

    Since it is highly unlikely the Coast Guard will approve the term "Coast Guardswoman" in referring to its female members, and the term Coast Guardsperson sounds clumsy, and it is too time consuming to always write Coast Guardsmen/women, I predict the term Coast Guardsman will give way to "Coast Guarder" within the next 50 years, perhaps within the next 20. I assume you have served with a female member of the Coast Guard, correct? Does it seem odd to you to call her a man?

    P.S. I am a man.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2011
  15. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    It strikes me no more off to call her a Coast Guardsman as it does to consider us huMAN.

    I'm beginning to pick up that I probably shouldn't invest in anything you recommend. The Coast Guard is some capacity, has been around since 1790. Women have been members of the Coast Guard since WWII. Somehow every female I've ever served with has never had an issue with "Coast Guardsman"... maybe before most commonly refer to each other as Coasties.

    Of course, I'm assuming we shouldn't "MAN THE GUNS" or "MAN THE RAIL"...

    The "mail man" actually goes by "letter carrier" and that's nothing new. Wasn't unheard of before women started carrying mail either.

    The closest the Coast Guard has gotten to "Guarder" which is again...a word, but not commonly used is "Guardian". The last Commandant preferred "Guardian" over "Coastie".

    So, no, despite your wish to change the name of members of an organization.... not going to happen. Not within AP and certainly not within the service.
     
  16. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    Well, don't worry, I won't recommend anything then.

    However, getting back to MAN the guns, and MAN the rail, I do think those are also terms that will eventually be replaced by something that describes both men and women... such as Tend, or something else. It's not a big deal to me, just an observation. As a man, these terms don't bother me, but I've never been a woman, so I can only comment that there are a fair number of women who don't like those types of terms, but accept them because its not worth fighting over. It doesn't mean they think it's fine as is.

    I do like the term Coast Guardian.

    I should think that before the AP Stylebook makes a change, the Service itself would do so, as a matter of common sense. The current terms made sense when the members were 100% male at the time the terms came into common use. Language will always respond to changing societal conditions.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2011
  17. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    I think dunnninla meant that w/in 50 years the Coasties'll be called "Coast Garter" :eek:
     
  18. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    I think you're just confused. There's not much more I can do to change that. It reminds me of Congress, having some notion is has a clue without stepping in the same shoes.

    Coast Guardian sounds stupid. That is why no one in the service embraced the term "Guardian".

    Coast GuardsMAN doesn't bother women because women know they're seen as Coast Guardsmen too.... wear the same colors, do the same things. It's not an issue within the service. It only seems like an issue for someone who's never held the title "Coast Guardsman".

    Guess you just have to "be there".
     
  19. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Then the Coast Guard would integrate far better with the Navy.
     
  20. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    I'm not sure how you could know this, as I don't think you're a woman member of the Coast Guard, nor a family member who would refer to their daughter/sister/mother as a Coast Guardsman . You are right, I don't know either -- but judging from what women have written in the past about being called by a name that ends in man, I suspect it bothers more people than you know.

    P.S. Just about any new term sounds stupid, I'll give you that. The PC switch from Oriental to Asian American sounded stilted and artificial at first. I wasn't around for the switch from Nigger/Nigra/Negro (depending on dialect) to African American or Black, but it's the same deal... a new term seems forced and artificial, and evokes a visceral reaction... "what's wrong with the old term??"

    This is getting very close to sounding like an episode of All in the Family, Archie.

    /signed/ Meathead
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2011

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