Obama reaffirms will end 'don't ask, don't tell'

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by SamAca10, Oct 10, 2009.

  1. SamAca10

    SamAca10 Ensign - DWO

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    Hey, everyone. I saw this news article when i went to check my email and thought that it was something very relevant to everyone on this forum....personally, I disagree with what is happening, but I want to hear your opinions. as well. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_obama_gays
     
  2. gunner1zeus

    gunner1zeus Member

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    SamAca10:

    I don't think there will any changes in the policy in effect at this time. This little speech by Obama is to placate a vocal minority who contributed large amounts of cash to the Democratic party.

    Obama has not displayed a very good average on fulfilling his campaign promises like support to the afghans pops to mind. I Think the only promise he has made any effort to keep is his health care plan and we see how well thats going.:thumbdown:

    In todays politically correct world inactivity on national concerns, abandonment of allies and placating tyrants equals a Nobel peace price.:thumbdown:

    Leave the gays and lesbians right where they are IN THE CLOSET...
     
  3. Maximus

    Maximus Member

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    I read the first couple of lines of the article and then thought: not to worry, he'll say anything in front of a crowd and, he didn't really say anything.
     
  4. SamAca10

    SamAca10 Ensign - DWO

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    Good. I'm liking the sound of that...."If it ain't broke, don't fix it":thumb:
     
  5. Maximus

    Maximus Member

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    What some people don't realize is, what a can of worms that would open up if policy were changed. IMVHO
     
  6. gunner1zeus

    gunner1zeus Member

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    If the politicians and special interest groups had their way the Military would be split into so many different groups and sub groups it would never accomplish anything. could that be their plan?

    If it's not made into a problem, no solution is required.:thumb:
     
  7. SteveHolt243

    SteveHolt243 Member

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    Gay and lesbian servicemembers might disagree with your defintion of "ain't broke."

    Just sayin'
     
  8. Bullet

    Bullet Member

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    tpg,

    Maybe a few years back (like 10 or 15 or so), I had a problem with the whole idea of homosexuals openly serving. "Not in MY service" was my typical and very vocal thoughts on the matter.

    But as I got older and gained more responsibility, I came to realize it really wasn't MY AF, it was the US Taxpayers. And the best people for the Taxpayers money were the ones who did their job. My headaches became trying to get those who didn't do their job to either: 1) change their attitudes and learn to perform, or 2) take their attitudes with them and return to the civilian world. And you know what? I learned that these were the only two categories of classification of the troops that really mattered (performers and non-performers).

    It made me think. Who am I to judge what a person does at home when not in uniform. (I mean, some folks play fantasy football, some play fantasy computer games like WoW, some live fantasy lives on weekends dressing up as Civil War soldiers or Middle age knights, pretending to die on pretend fields of glory. And some just mow the lawn, do a little home project or two, and go grocery shopping with the Missus and the kids.) Who really cares what you do with your free time, as long as it is legal. And as long as what they do IN uniform gets the mission done, then they're aces in my book.

    A certain recent case of a certain Lt Col who happened to be in my sister squadron doing the same job I did at the same level drove this point home for me. A warrior's warrior in the air, plenty of flight time and combat experience. A RESPECTED aviator, instructor, and Mentor. And an pretty good acquaintance I shared a few beers and a few war stories with. Who just happened to get caught in a homosexual scandal and get relieved 2 years before he was eligible to retire. You may have seen the news.

    Would I have taken to the public airwaves to become the latest cause celeb like he took it? Perhaps not. But I don't know the levels I would have gone to either. I don't think I would have slunk into the background either, like the leadership hoped for. Perhaps I would have fought as well.

    But what I do know is the AF lost a good warrior over something he did AT HOME, in PRIVATE. And to me, that is a shame. I know there will be issues, I know there will be things to overcome. But the military has been asked before to do similar shifts in attitude and acceptance. Desegregation comes to mind, and it was a bitter fight to get to where we are today, where the opposition used some of the same arguments. But I think everyone here would agree it was the right thing to do and worth the struggle.

    So I guess you can count me in with those who looks at the President's speech yesterday and says: "about time".
     
  9. Maximus

    Maximus Member

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    I respect that statement TPG but how does announcing sexual preference validate anything one does in any organization? Especially one that eats, sleeps and lives together in very close contact?
     
  10. Bullet

    Bullet Member

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    MAximus,

    I also respect your thoughts, but to me your argument is the problem is with the troops that don't accept homosexuals in their ranks and barracks, not with the homosexuals themselves. Substitute "troops of different races", and it takes on a rather shameful reminder of our past.
     
  11. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    More women than men dismissed from military for being gay

    Oct 9 2009 - Women were dismissed from the military for being gay at a greater rate than men last year, according to new statistics obtained by a California research group.

    All the services kicked out a disproportionate number of women under the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, according to Department of Defense data obtained by the Palm Center at the University of California, Santa Barbara. The center studies gender and sexuality in the military.

    The "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy, implemented in 1994, bans troops who are openly gay from serving in the military.

    In the Air Force, a majority of those removed were women, the first time a service has had such a record since the implementation of the controversial law in 1994, according to Palm Center senior research fellow Nathaniel Frank.

    In fiscal year 2008, the Air Force dismissed 56 women and 34 men.

    In addition, the Army removed more women under the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy at a greater rate than men when compared with the ratio of women to men in each service.

    Of those discharged under the policy, 36 percent were women, although women make up only 14 percent of troops in the Army, the data showed.
     
  12. Maximus

    Maximus Member

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    Bullet, I'm guessing you're about my age, 40 something; I've spent a few years as an enlisted Marine in the early 80's so, I don't quite have your military experience but, I do have my life's perspective, and adding one more special group to the protected scrolls is not the answer, it's just one more polarizing PC mandate the current admin has. You want to alienate and disenfranchise 90 something percent of the military? Add another label instead of enforcing the laws on the books. Most forget, "Don't Ask" covers the punishment for the troops that won't accept homosexuals in their ranks and barracks. As to someone doing something (legal) in their own home has no place in my thoughts for cause for separation, that (your LTC comparison) was wrong and I agree with you.

    I've been a tolerant person my whole life, I have no problems with ~any group of people, they perform their job and are respectful of others, they deserve respect in return; and will always get my respect.

    I'm sure some here will chime in with the race card analogy, it's used here ad nauseum but, I find that most people are like me and respect others always, I don't feel guilt and want to feel good with something that's only designed to put one group ahead of another. People are responsible for their actions and you can't enforce morality.

    JMHO and obviously not the only one.
     
  13. Bullet

    Bullet Member

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    Maximus, well said and I understand where you're coming from. Perhaps we see this differently, as I don't see this as treating a certain class of individuals as special or in some way better. I see this as treating a certain set of individuals the same way we treat everyone else by allowing them to serve alongside everyone else.

    I understand this is a touchy subject, and everyone has their own feelings on the matter. I too get very uncomfortable when the military is used for "social experimentation", and it seems an easy, convenient route for the current administration to do this to "throw a bone" at some very vocal supporters. They want to impress me? Do the difficult and proper thing, and give homosexuals equal rights under Federal law. It would make DADT kind of a moot point, wouldn't it?

    But I don't see the current resident of 1600 Penn Ave having that kind of backbone on this issue. A shame, really....
     
  14. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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  15. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Not surprisingly I agree with Bullet. Instead of repealing DADT, make life easy and create a federal law that allows homosexual unions.

    I have stated that my problem with removing DADT is logistics. If you allow openly gay servicemembers, that means they have the right to be married if their HOR allows it. How do you tell one service member that they get medical care, housing and BAH with dependents and no to the other. It becomes the "new issue" By rectifying it on the federal level, DADT would be repealed. Repealing DADT will have no true impact on the federal level at a fast pace.
     
  16. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Why not do both? :confused:
     
  17. Emsa

    Emsa Member

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    Talk is cheap, I will believe it when I see it...
     
  18. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    It is much easier said than done....as was closing GTMO....etc.....
     
  19. gunner1zeus

    gunner1zeus Member

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    Don't ask
    Don't tell
    I don't want to know.

    When a sailor goes ashore what they do is not any of my business.
    When a sailor comes aboard he or she needs to be prepared to do their jobs.
    If a sailors professed sexual orientation prevents or hinders them from preforming their jobs, it is then a problem.
    I think having openly gay sailors aboard a ship would increase problems in the areas of discipline,unit cohesion and over all crew moral.

    leave it with the gear on the pier, don't bring it aboard.

    where would berthing be for homosexual female sailor on a sub???
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2009
  20. America's Finest

    America's Finest USMA Cadet

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    Even if "Don't ask, Don't Tell" is kept, that doesn't stop homosexual women from serving and berthing with other females on subs. All the policy does in that situation is keep everyone unaware of the fact that they are in the same bed as a homosexual. In short, it doesn't remove the problem, it simply hides it from everyone so they can pretend it's not there.
     

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