Obama reviewing ban on photos of coffins

I think we all know, the reason for the ban is not to protect the families- rather it is to protect the image of the President.

Here's the deal...the ban DOES PROTECT THE FAMILIES.

Please raise your hand and tell me if you have attended 1 funeral for an AD member...okay how about 2...now how about 3...4...5... 6 or more. Guess what my hand stayed up for 6. Some died in training missions ans some died in war...you will never understand it until the news comes out from your own base about the loss. Most flyers wives are not even allowed to ever view their spouse again (the g force does incredible things to a body) All they get is to kiss a casket. It is with appreciation that I am thankful for the ban. It is a solitary moment and BUSH got that. He understood that this is a very ver painful moment. Why do you think there are Casualty officers that are assigned to the family for 30 days? It is because of the emotional pain.

If people can't get that unexpected death is life altering than I can't help them. If they feel the need to go and watch caskets come down a C-130, than go to the end of Dovers runway with a set of binoculars.

Seriously what is the need to see a picture of a casket? Will it make you feel better about yourself? Will it substantiate your stance on our soldiers dieing? Will it make you believe that seeing a wife being held up proved that this war was wrong? Will you truly honor that person as an American or blame Bush for putting us there?
 
JAM and Old Grad(USNA69) this is about the media, and the families right to privacy! The same media that will put a nut job from Kansas and his merry band of protestors on TV as they desecrate military funerals. They do this to advance an agenda not provide information. The same reason CNN broadcast the slaying of an American Marine! They don't care about the sacrafices of our nations military. They care about advancing their own agenda!

There is no purpose in displaying caskets in a plane or hanger other then sensationlization, and distortion. This was demonstrated not long ago when pictures and video of said caskets was taken and released without authorization. It was not done with some overwhelming need to provide information, but to shape an opinion the media wanted to advance.

JAM I agree with LIS you make a point of seeking to discredit people who have been there and have the T-shirt. CC, Pima, Bullet, Myself and others have shared a lifetime of experiences to assist the young adults who are interested in following our path. It is a different life from the civilian one.
 
I think Bruno made it clear that personal attacks are not acceptable on the forum so knock it off!

Accusing old grad of being a former member (usna69) because you do not agree with his opinion is not acceptable. All opinions should be welcome and respected, you don't have to agree but don't be disrespectful.

Yes Pima we get that you have been to many military funerals, you have stated it more than once, that does not mean us "civilians" don't understand the pain of loosing a loved one. In my opinion it does not matter if your loved one died of an illness or in war, they are still gone and leave a hole in you heart.

Just because some of you have served in the military and some of us have not does not make our opinions invalid. If that is the case then this forum needs to be just for current and prior military members and the rest of us should be banned. Some of us have been married to an active duty military member, some of us have grown up in a military household, why are our opinions any less valuable???

If you want to discuss the pros/cons of the photographing coffins then continue, otherwise cut out the personal attacks and bickering!!!! :mad:
 
Let me pose it this way...explain to me the need of taking a picture of a casket. What does it do for you personally that you want or desire to see it? I am not trying to be antagonistic, I am truly trying to wrap my head around anyones desire to see a flag draped casket.

You are a proud parent of a child that is entering the military in 2 short yrs, if that day ever comes, and I hope and pray it doesn't. Are you okay having flashbulbs clicking in your face as your family goes to greet him? If you are please explain why, b/c personally as it is clear to see...I am not and I just don't get the morbid fascination that people have with wanting to share my pain. You do understand that one of the things the PA office is afraid of is that families will feel the need to be there or will not because of the media. The decision to attend shouldn't be determined by the media no matter what, but people will make a decision that way.
 
Let me pose it this way...explain to me the need of taking a picture of a casket. What does it do for you personally that you want or desire to see it?

Pima, in case this is directed at me I will answer it...I have no desire to see flag draped coffins coming off of airplanes. My personal opinion on this is that it should be left up to the individual families. If they say no pictures, then there should be no pictures.

The point of my post is that some people here are acting like children instead of adults. I was taught that it is perfectly fine to disagree with others but not to belittle their opinions just because I don't agree, and to at least show common courtesy to others. In addition, some posters come across as self righteous in their posts which is just plain annoying, but I still tolerate them and don't call them names.
 
Let me pose it this way...explain to me the need of taking a picture of a casket. What does it do for you personally that you want or desire to see it? I am not trying to be antagonistic, I am truly trying to wrap my head around anyones desire to see a flag draped casket.

You are a proud parent of a child that is entering the military in 2 short yrs, if that day ever comes, and I hope and pray it doesn't. Are you okay having flashbulbs clicking in your face as your family goes to greet him? If you are please explain why, b/c personally as it is clear to see...I am not and I just don't get the morbid fascination that people have with wanting to share my pain. You do understand that one of the things the PA office is afraid of is that families will feel the need to be there or will not because of the media. The decision to attend shouldn't be determined by the media no matter what, but people will make a decision that way.

Pima, to whom are you addressing this post?

To the other posters: I like hearing everyone's opinions on the policy of banning pictures of coffins at Dover. I think a review of the policy is appropriate now that a new administration is in place. However, I am finding the personal attacks in this thread distressing.

How about a deep breath and a return to civility? And a refocus on the topic of this thread?
 
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I am posing that to anyone and everyone.

If we state it is to honor them...wouldn't the obit do a better job than a pic of the casket? If we state it is to prove a political point, than isn't it wrong to use their death for someone elses desires?

I agree that every family member should chose on their own...it is a private and personal decision...as I stated many posts ago at least in the AF we have death packets that we fill out...the commander would know the service members desire long before the wheels hit the tarmac in Dover.
 
Thanks for your candid remarks. This is getting way off topic. Perhaps you could start a new thread - call it:
My problem wiht Just_A_Mom and why I have a need to make fun of, talk down to and attack everything she says even though I don't know anything about her.
I want specifics. Tell me about myself. Tell me who I voted for, my own opinion of the military and the WOT, how this makes me a bad person and why you and your friends feel the need to gang up on me.



I think I've made it pretty clear in the past what we've disagreed about (just about everything). Your response seems to be "don't be rude, don't talk down to me, etc" and yet you do the very same. I didn't say it makes you a bad person, personnaly I just don't think your opinions benefit the U.S. Armed Forces.


As for accusing people of being USNA69, do we have any confirmation that Oldgrad is not? He may not be, and I think it has less to do with people not agreeing with him, and more to do with the fact that he disagrees with everyone except JAM (a characteristic common in USNA69), and that is seems clear he has a Naval background.
 
I am posing that to anyone and everyone.

If we state it is to honor them...wouldn't the obit do a better job than a pic of the casket? If we state it is to prove a political point, than isn't it wrong to use their death for someone elses desires?

I agree that every family member should chose on their own...it is a private and personal decision...as I stated many posts ago at least in the AF we have death packets that we fill out...the commander would know the service members desire long before the wheels hit the tarmac in Dover.

I am sure that deceased service member's stated desire plus the desires of the family will be taken into account in Secretary Gate's review of the policy banning pictures.

But I will be writing a letter stating my opinion to Secretary Gates....to be sure my one voice is heard.
 
As for the question on this thread....it seems like it has come down to a few points...

1. Do families have a right to privacy (with regards to media)

2. Should the media be able to go anywhere and film anything in the name of "freedom of the press".

3. Do we honor fallen service members by filming their caskets?

4. Do service members what to be remembered a caskets on a plane in the eye of the public?

There are so many questions....I think that the families have a right to some privacy, that the press can take pictures with the permission of the families, that we CAN honor fallen service members with these picture, but I doubt that's how they would be used, and that no one wants to be remember as "a body on a plane."
 
I'm also not convinced anything will change. I think this was a question from a reporter to challenge President Obama's "transparency" claims.
 
CC your point is well noted.

Does this mean that the Government should call for an all out ban on the press? Could this decision not be left to the families involved?

I think we all know, the reason for the ban is not to protect the families- rather it is to protect the image of the President.

JAM; you said that my point was "Well Noted". My point was that it SHOULD be up to the family. That the military could provide a release form to the media with the names of the fallen, and the media could get permission from the family. If even 1 family next of kin (If it's MULTIPLE caskets) says no; then the answer is no! So I don't think i need to answer you question being this already answers it.

As for the "Reason" for the ban being to protect the image of the "PRESIDENT"; I think you are wrong. And I think you shouldn't go there. I consider that a personal attack on President Bush (Being he was involved in this). I'm sure you don't want me talking negatively about President Obama; although I know I could come up with a lot to discuss. So; unless you have some PROOF that the reason for limiting media coverage of coffins is purely political and for the president's agenda; then I suggest you keep it to yourself. The ACCEPTED reason for the limitation of media coverage is for respect and the privacy of the family. Unless you have proof otherwise, work with the accepted reason.

So, you and I seem to agree on this subject. The decision is UP TO THE FAMILY. If they say yes, then go for it. If they say no, then respect the decision and print the standard PA press release pictures of the fallen military member in uniform and a Bio. later... mike.....
 
This might not be pertinent to the current discussion but just a reflection:

The Bugle echoes shrill and sweet,
But not of war it sings to-day.
The road is rhythmactic with the feet
Of men at arms who come to pray.
The roses blossom white and red
On tombs where weary soldiers lie;
Flags wave above the honored dead
And martial music cleaves the sky.
Above their wreath-strewn graves we kneel,
They kept the faith and fought the fight.

Through flying lead and crimson steel
They plunged for Freedom and the Right.
May we, their grateful children, learn
Their strengh, who lie beneath the sod,
Who went through fire and death to earn
At last the accolade of God.
In shining rank on rank arrayed
They march, the legions of the Lord;
He is their Captain unafraid,
The Prince of Peace .... Who brought a sword.

Joyce Killmer, Killed in action July 30, 1918
 
As a member of the Patriot Guard Riders I can tell you that not just the press use the passing of our troops as propaganda.

As a child of a Vietnam Vet I DO REMEMBER. I also remember that black station wagon pulling into our driveway (thank god) by accident, but they did not realize it until they were getting out of the car... I remember my mother absolutely freaking out infront of the picture window of our Moses Lake Base housing OOPS they realized they were at the wrong address and quickly got back into their car and pulled into our neighbors driveway.

I think there is nothing wrong with the current laws, and they do not need to be addressed, as the we don't need to see the caskets to mourn the lost... Sometimes things just need to be left be...
 
Service Academy Forum Members,

It seems that this thread is still veering off its intended course due to the actions of some of our members. While I've had many suggestions to close it, I've decided against it. I think it's important to let people discuss their views openly.

That being said, there will be no more warnings in this thread. If your post violates the forum rules, you will receive an infraction or a temporary ban, depending on the severity of the violation.

Please feel free to continue to post in this thread. The staff does not mind seeing a polite debate. What we won't stand for is any more personal attacks, suppositions, or rude remarks.

Thank you for your time.

-TN
 
TN.

I truly believe that death is a very raw and emotional issue. I hope that you leave the thread open so anybody in any society can understand that there is no clear cut answer.

On a personal note, if I have offended any of you, I am sorry. It is very difficult to understand the finess of somebody's tone over the net. I have never meant any offense, nor have I taken offense.

I recall when Bullet was going into a war situation and I ad a 3 mos old. my MIL said if it was DS1 you would feel differently...I replied no...I still have not changed my opinion. It is a personal decision...it is heartwrenching for all of us as parents of future military officers to envision that this may occur. ALl I can say is talk to your child when they enter AD...and abide by THEIR wishes, as a community we will close the wagons around and support all of our fallen camrades decision regarding this issue.
 
So; unless you have some PROOF that the reason for limiting media coverage of coffins is purely political and for the president's agenda; then I suggest you keep it to yourself. The ACCEPTED reason for the limitation of media coverage is for respect and the privacy of the family. Unless you have proof otherwise, work with the accepted reason.

Accepted by whom? Let's put the shoe on the other foot. Prove that it was to respect the privacy of the family. However, I will not be so bold as to dictate your right to your opinions as you seem to wish to do with JAM.
 
personnaly I just don't think your opinions benefit the U.S. Armed Forces.

Wow. JAM questions policy. Sec Def Gates expresses same concerns. Young officer questions JAMS opinions. Is he also questioning those of his superior, SecDef Gates? Heady stuff.
 
Accepted by whom? Let's put the shoe on the other foot. Prove that it was to respect the privacy of the family. However, I will not be so bold as to dictate your right to your opinions as you seem to wish to do with JAM.

The burden of proof does not lye with me. I am not the one stating that the reason for not allowing the media to take picture is to protect the image of the President. The purpose of this thread was to debate the possibility of changing a current ruling to allow the media to take photos of coffins of our military fallen. If you have some proof that the rule is only in affect to protect the image of President Bush; which you seem to agree with JAM that that is the reason for it; then please provide such proof and we can discuss it. But a "theory" is not enough to go about debating change for. The proof lyes with you. Not me.
 
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