Officer Dating/Fraternization

Discussion in 'Life After the Academy' started by SamAca10, Apr 29, 2013.

  1. SamAca10

    SamAca10 Ensign - DWO

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    Out of pure curiosity, are there any rules are regulations that concern dating between two officers in the military? Obviously officer/enlisted is a no-no, but I haven't seen too much on dating between officers except the following exceptions:

    - Within the same chain of command
    - On the same vessel
    - Both assigned to a unit that is extremely tiny

    Are there rules regarding the different paygrades? i.e. could an Ensign (O-1) hypothetically date a Commander (O-5) or a LT (O-3) date a Warrant officer?

    I took a class on the UCMJ last semester and this was never really addressed, but I think it's a topic that's worth discussion
     
  2. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Nope, date away (between commissioned officers that is)! But not in your chain of command or at the same unit.
     
  3. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    I can't remember the "official" rules from in the USMC other than Officer and Enlisted, not within the same Chain of Command. The general rules that we followed were: company grade or field grade stay within those realms, one up or one day in rank (to cover situations like Capt and Maj), no enlisted. I saw a 1stLt marry a CWO2 (in the USMC we sort of have a rule, one bar is one bar... we don't salute each other and use first names)and a 1stLt marry a LtCol in my first tour (trust me, that all left us scratching our heads). Other than that it was mostly Company Grades marrying another Company Grades and Capt/Majs or Majs/LtCols as we got more senior.
     
  4. AF6872

    AF6872 Member

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    Why is enlisted and Officer a No-No. It has been done. Other than Chain Of Command dating between ranks used to be most times overlooked if it is not flaunted in the face of the permanent party. An NCO doesn't go to a party with his 1ST Lt date at the Commanders Ball. Is it a UCMJ violation even if outside the chain of command. YES. Prosecuted. I think very rarely. But very frowned upon by the Officer wives.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
  5. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Remember, company and field grade officers aren't the same for every branch. O-4s are the squishy in between.

    It's true you will rarely see a junior and senior officer together in a relationship, but unlike officer-enlisted, you aren't breaking the rules.
     
  6. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    I haven't seen people presecuted in a Court Martial for it, but I've seen many Mast's (NJP) resulting from those kinds of relationships.

    I've seen people lose careers MANY times for office-enlisted relationships, at any level.

    Want a quick boot from the Coast Guard, hook up with an enlisted member while you're an officer.

    There are pre-existing relationship exceptions. I knew a PO1 who was married to an ENS. She married him before he went to OCS. Now she's a CWO and he's a LTJG or LT.
     
  7. AF6872

    AF6872 Member

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    Don't Ask Don't Tell can go all ways:biggrin: NCO living with a 1LT if it is way outside chain of command and nobody cares or complains? Hey it was the AF. Enough said.
     
  8. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    I don't think that there is any ucmj prohibition against officers dating (or marrying) enlisted as long as they aren't in the same chain of command. I have certainly seen that and don't know anyone who ever gave it a thought, though it probably limited what social events you went to. As for dating other officers- when we were both Captains, I married a woman who became the best looking Colonel in the Army, which means that she did better than me in her career and certainly is far smarter and far far better looking to boot. Lots of folks gave her grief about her choice in husband- but bad taste was not a ucmj offense when we got married. It did make finding assignments more challenging, though the beauty of being Infantry and Signal Corps meant that there were always reasonable Army duty stations that had some slots we could fill.
     
  9. hornetguy

    hornetguy USAFA Cadet

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    Sam, I think you got the gist of it already in your three points.

    I'm dating an O-3 and we started dating while I was an O-1 (now I'm an O-2). No one in either of our chains cares at all and I don't really think anyone thought it was strange. I see it fairly often around me anyway.

    I've also seen very odd combinations that I raised my eyebrows at but never saw addressed.
     
  10. NorwichDad

    NorwichDad Member

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    Discretion is the better part of relationships
     
  11. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Maybe it's just a Coast Guard regulation....


    2) Romantic relationships outside of marriage between commissioned officers and enlisted personnel. For the purposes of this paragraph, Coast Guard Academy cadets and officer candidates (both OCS and ROCI) are considered officers.
     
  12. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    An Army briefing concerning fraternization

    Prohibited relationships between Soldiers of different ranks

    A compromise of integrity of supervisory authority or chain of command.
    •An actual or perceived partiality of unfairness.
    •Improper use of rank for personal gain.
    •Exploitative or coercive activity.
    •An adverse impact on discipline, authority, morale, or the
    ability of command to accomplish the mission.


    Prohibited personal relationships between officers and enlisted personnel include

    On-going business relationships between officers and enlisted personnel. This prohibition does not apply to landlord/tenant relationships or to one-time transactions such as the sale of an automobile or house, but does apply to borrowing or lending money, commercial solicitation, and any other type of on-going financial or business relationship. Business relationships which exist at the time this policy becomes effective, and that were authorized under previously existing rules and regulations, are exempt until March 1, 2000. In the case of Army National Guard or United States Army Reserve personnel, this prohibition does not apply to relationships that exist due to their civilian occupation or employment.

    •Dating, shared living accommodations other than those directed by operational requirements, and intimate or sexual relationships between officers and enlisted personnel. This prohibition does not apply to—

    (1) Marriages that predate the effective date of this policy or entered into prior to March 1, 2000.
    (2) Until March 1, 2000, relationships (dating, shared living accommodations, and intimate or sexual relationships) outside ofmarriage that predate the effective date of this policy.
    (3) Situations in which a relationship which complies with this policy would move into non-compliance due to a change in status of one of the members (for instance, a case where two enlisted members marry and one is subsequently commissioned or selected as a warrant officer).
    (4) Personal relationships outside of marriage between members of the National Guard or Army Reserve, when the relationship primarily exists due to civilian acquaintanceships, unless the individuals are on activeduty (other than annual training) or Full-time National Guard duty (other than annual training).
    (5) Personal relationships outside of marriage between members of the Regular Army and members of the National Guard or Army Reserve when the relationships primarily exists due to civilian association and the Reserve component member is not on active duty (other than annual training) or Fulltime National Guard duty (other than annual training).
    (6) Soldiers and leaders share responsibility, however, for ensuring that these relationships do not interfere with good order and discipline. Commanders will ensure that personal relationships which exist between Soldiers of different ranks emanating from their civilian careers will not influence training, readiness, or personnel actions.
    •Gambling between officers and enlisted personnel.



    adverse actions, which may include:
    official reprimand,
    adverse evaluation report(s),
    nonjudicialpunishment,
    separation,
    bar to reenlistment,
    promotion denial,
    demotion,
    courts martial.
     
  13. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Guess it comes down to, whether you should follow the rules or not. After there people thinking, "if she can date a major, why can't I?" and does that hurt the unit or units? Maybe.

    I can say I've lost more than one classmate because of their inappropriate relationships with enlisted members of the Coast Guard. Maybe the Coast Guard is a little harder on it than the Marine Corps? I have no idea. But I do know it would be considered an issue if people know about it, and it generally gets back to someone who can kick off an investigation... and often that investigation ends an officer's career.
     

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