Officer / Enlisted Fraternization ?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by NavyMama, Dec 29, 2013.

  1. NavyMama

    NavyMama Member

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    I hope one of you can give me some info to help my daughter and her bf. They are getting conflicting answers based on who they ask in their COC. Dilemma: She is about to commission as an Ensign in the Navy as a nurse. He is a Cpl (CH53 mechanic) in the USMC (currently deployed, making it difficult to get info from reliable sources). They have been talking about getting married (known each other since high school and began dating while she was in college and he was a LCpl). Would they have to be married BEFORE she commissions in order to continue their relationship? The regs seem to say that, regardless of their service affiliations and the fact they would never be in the same COC. Any thoughts?
     
  2. cb7893

    cb7893 Member

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    I know nothing about the regs, but I do know that I went to a wedding last spring of a soon-to-be commissioned USMC officer and her USMC Cpl fiancé. The bride told me that the wedding was taking place specifically BEFORE her commissioning.

    He was already active duty. She, serving in the reserves, was finishing her Senior year of college. If I am not mistaken, she was scheduled to attend OCS (forgive my ignorance) after graduation, after which time, she would be commissioned upon its successful completion.

    At last report, several days ago, they are both active duty and everything is as lovey dovey as it can be between a couple of Marines. Wish the same for your DD and soon to be DSiL.
     
  3. Capt MJ

    Capt MJ Member

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    The burden lies on the people in uniform to get the right advice. Navy daughter should push hard to find the nearest Navy JAG, usually found at Navy bases, or occasionally at a Navy Operations Center in a Navy JAG unit (Navy Reserve), to help with reviewing Navy regulations and determining how they would apply. If she can't get there in person, looking for the "Naval Station Legal Services Office" via google and working the phones is a way to start. Her COC probably has a JAG somewhere in their chain - if ROTC, at HQ level. If Health Professional Scholarship, probably Recruiting Command. The burden will lie on her, since she will be the senior officer as soon as she is commissioned. In general, Navy officers are prohibited from having a personal relationship with enlisted personnel of any service, regardless of prior existing relationships - but marriage overrides the prohibition. This is generally the way with other services as well. Cpl could look for a Navy chaplain in his deployment area, ask for help there to get his Marine questions answered from a Marine JAG.

    I checked my comments with a senior Navy Reserve JAG who drills at a major personnel command where these issues come up, to ensure I was current.
     
  4. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    I have to agree with the Captain.

    I have seen this scenario many times in the AF...marriage trumps "frat" however...there are a LOT of folks that will look "askance" at this relationship and may decide to make it their business to "correct the problem" they perceive. It's not a problem, but there's (sadly) usually one "jerk" that will be a problem.

    This can be a career "issue" unfortunately.

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  5. coastiefam

    coastiefam Member

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    In our case we were counseled that it wasn't a problem since we weren't in the same chain of command (or even the same state).

    Sent using the Service Academy Forums® mobile app
     
  6. wolf

    wolf New Member

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    Anybody know of good marine rotc schools
     
  7. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    With initiative like this you're sure to find one soon!

    Seriously, go use the search function and do some research yourself. You'll soon find everything isn't going to be spoon fed to you.
     
  8. JMS

    JMS Member

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    yes!
    And you should too!
     
  9. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    The Juilliard School.
     
  10. usnabgo08

    usnabgo08 USNA 2008/BGO

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  11. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    I believe Marines are required to marry other Marines or the mothers of their children.....


    I KEEEED I KEEEEED. :wink:
     
  12. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    "If the Military wants you to have a spouse, they will issue you one"

    Always loved that line.
     
  13. USMAROTCFamily

    USMAROTCFamily Member

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    When I was in the Army, even if the relationship was "allowed," it was highly frowned upon. Nobody would say anything directly to the officer, but things were definitely being said. These relationships seemed to be much more prevalent with a female officer and male enlisted vs. vice versa.
     
  14. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    HAHAHA, OK. I assume those bars are near highly illuminated, neon, establishments (that's how I knew I was getting near the main entrance of the Navy base in Mayport).
     
  15. NavyMama

    NavyMama Member

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    Thanks!

    I appreciate all of your thoughtful and insightful responses...except you made me spit my drink all over the computer screen with the Julliard comment to Marine ROTC schools! So, we have a good friend who is a JAG and it seems to boil down to the fact that "intimate relationships between an 0-1 and an E-4 are, by definition, fraternization and prohibited." There are 5 qualifiers in the UCMJ that sort of define what constitutes frat beyond this and none of them apply. Logic and common sense would say that a Navy nurse 0-1 at one base dating a USMC E-4 from another base wouldn't be frat or problematic, but we all know that there is no room for logic and common sense in the military. All it would take is for one jack-wagon to get a wild hair up his butt and she could potentially be brought up on charges of "conduct unbecoming and officer" and "frat". "Intimate relationship" could be hard to determine, but why push it? So, I believe they will be getting married this summer :-D
     
  16. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt Member

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    This is consistent with my experience in the USMC also.
     
  17. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt Member

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    It wasn't that long ago that this was the prevailing practice. Maybe the 1950's and 60's? If I remember correctly, anyone below E4 had to have permission to get married.
     
  18. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt Member

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    And serving cold beer and whiskey. No foo foo drinks with umbrellas!
     

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