other health professions DPM/OD/DO, etc.

Discussion in 'Life After the Academy' started by sprog, May 26, 2010.

  1. sprog

    sprog Member

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    I'm certain that this information is out on the internet somewhere; however, as I have read many questions about medical school options in the military, I thought there might potentially be interest in the forum community on other professional jobs (health-related) in the military.

    I recall having allopathic (MD) and dental care throughout my time in the service, but out of my own curiosity, and what I assume is the curiosity of some of the prospective cadets/mids on this forum, I was wondering if anyone had any insight into what opportunities are out there for those in some of the other health professions. Specifically, is it possible to be a podiatrist (DPM) in the service, and are there available options for the service to pay for this type of education (podiatric medical school)? What about osteopathic physicians or optometrists?

    I seem to recall there being optometrists in the USAF, but I don't recall ever seeing a DO physician, and I don't think my base had a podiatry clinic (although, who knows, I never had issues with my feet). I'm fairly certain that chiropractors don't serve on active duty (or at least didn't a few years ago), as there is some question as to the benefit of the services they provide.

    As there might very well be a student interested in becoming a podiatrist (DPM), DO physician, or optometrist in the service, I think some discussion on the availabe options might be helpful.

    I suppose we should include PA and NP opportunities as well.
     
  2. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    You never saw a podiatrist?
    Back in the 70's our AF base hospital had a podiatrist. I *sprained* my ankle and it took two years and a podiatrist to discover the break. He worked closely with the AF orthopedist who then operated.

    I think the military basically invented the professions of Physician Assistant and Nurse Practioner. We had plenty of PA's and NP's back in the 70's and they were mostly unheard of in the civilian world. Perhaps most PA's are direct commission now - I think the Army will send Nurses to get their Masters and be a NP.

    For those interested, IMO, Nurse Anesthetist is a fantastic career and opportunities exist in the Military. The Army CRNA program at Sam Houston is ranked #2, the Navy program at Bethesda is ranked #3 and the USUHS program is ranked #6.
    http://grad-schools.usnews.rankings...schools/top-nurse-anesthesia-schools/rankings
     
  3. sprog

    sprog Member

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    I never saw a DPM, but that doesn't mean we didn't have one. I have good feet, I guess. :biggrin: It's good to know that they are in the service. Will the service pay for an individual to get a podiatry degree?
     
  4. js3486

    js3486 Parent

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    I saw a DO who also did chiropractic adjustments when I was stationed on an AFB, I have also been seen by a Navy Podiatrist. The larger facilites have more specialized doctors like Bethesda or San Diego, and I know that is true in the larger overseas hospitals like Yokusuka.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2010
  5. hornetguy

    hornetguy USAFA Cadet

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    My primary care provider in the cadet clinic for the last two years was a DO. She was nice, but it took specialists to solve my problems a couple times when the DO approach didn't work...

    Two of my friends who just graduated with me are going to DO schools for medicine.
     
  6. kp2001

    kp2001 USMMA Alumnus

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    Sorry I didn't see this thread sooner:

    The military has just about every health profession in it's ranks.

    We definitely have DO's, probably half or so of the physicians in the military are DO's.

    We have podiatrists, optometrists, physician's assistants, nurse practitioners, nurse anesthitists, MD/DDS's (oral maxilofacial surgeons), chiropracters, physical therapists, and even a few people who do acupuncture (these are usually doc's who do it as part of their regular practice).

    About the only thing we don't have is naturopathic "healers".

    Each of the groups has their own type of accession program. Most are similar to the physician scholarship programs with a few variations. Best way to get info is to contact your local officer recruiter.
     
  7. chiromed0

    chiromed0 Member

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    Old thread but just want to make sure this info is there. As a chiropractor there are no, zero, zilch opportunities to join the ranks of active duty service as a chiropractor. As a guy with a college degree? Sure.

    There is a bill, signed over 10 years ago to move forward with commissioning chiropractors as officers but I doubt if it will ever be funded/implemented in my practice lifetime.

    However, there are chiropractors hired by the VA system and those seem to be growing in number. I've gone through a couple of the interview processes for those positions and they are, as usual, suspect to controversy as is the case with a lot of gov't jobs. Meaning a candidate is already in the works but the VA has to jump through the hoops of actually posting the job (legal requirement) and have other people interviewed.

    In any case, I believe MD's/DO's are treated exactly the same in the military and although DO's perform manipulation it is not chiropractic (they would take offense...I guess chiro's would too). For that matter so do PT's...

    It seems to be a very, very rewarding way to use your skills in healthcare serving those that are serving you. I salute all those who do. :thumb:
     
  8. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    And I believe that is a good thing.
     
  9. chiromed0

    chiromed0 Member

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    For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible. Therefore I am of the opinion that opinions are just that. :rolleyes:
     
  10. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Medicine is not built upon belief. It's built on verifiable science.
     
  11. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    However, chiropractic care is available for active duty servicemembers by referral. I suppose the DOD employs civilian chiropractors.
     
  12. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

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    DOs are just as common as MDs. Besides the Osteopathic twist, the schooling/residency is essentially the same. There will always be those who strictly want the MD title and residencies might be harder to get at some places but in the end both titles are physicians practicing medicine.

    PAs are very common the military especially in front line units acting as the primary care providers. IPAP program for the army is rather large.

    NPs are present in the military and I have seen some specialist civilian NP at military hospitals. I know there are military NPs out there and I assume many work in outpatient clinics. I personally haven't seen them though.

    CRNAs are very very common and probably provide the majority of anesthesia in any given military hospital. The army school is #1 in the country.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2012
  13. 18 Delta

    18 Delta Member

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    18 Delta to CRNA here
     
  14. chiromed0

    chiromed0 Member

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    So why do you "believe" it's a good thing then? Where's your verifiable science to back up your...um...belief? No...nevermind I'm sure you have more belief's to share than I care to entertain.

    :thumbdown:

    At any rate my post was simply to share information for the intent of the original thread.
     
  15. goaliedad

    goaliedad Parent

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    I think he believes in being a curmudgeon. Seems to be a more frequent behavior lately from looking at his posts... He called Army times a "commie rag". Now we all know that Gannett is a fine capitalist corporation...

    Smile :biggrin:
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2012
  16. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    Because chiropractics is not based in actual medical science, which is why it is not taught at reputable, academic universities.

    A quick look at the Association of Chiropractic Colleges reveals that the top chiropractic programs are not even remotely associated with real medical universities. I suppose that's more than coincidence.

    http://www.chirocolleges.org/members.html

    Even cursory research reveals that chiropractic "care" is under fire for just this reason. Between life-threatening neck injuries and almost non-existent entry standards for "chiropractic colleges" this is quite a system of pseudo-medicine that the military has no business paying for or commissioning officers who have pursued its practice. Chiropractors heal nobody and the practice is built on securing a lifelong patient who believes that regular "adjustments" are necessary for an infinite time period. That is not medicine and it's not something the military should pay for.

    A little more reading on the realities of Chiropractic "Medicine"

    http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/chiro.html

    http://www.rebuildyourback.com/chiropractic/school.php

    http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2771/is-chiropractic-for-real-or-just-quackery
     
  17. raimius

    raimius USAFA Alumnus

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    As far as standards for establishing DoD care, etc, I'm not in a position to make educated statements.

    What I will say is that some chiropractors do good work. I've taken some bad spills and tried going to a chiropractor who seemed to help fix the problem. (Having 30lbs of books land on your neck when you faceplant on black ice causes some issues!) Are all of them legitimate? Probably not. Are the standards by which they are judged too low at the moment? Perhaps. Should we discard what appear to be results due to these factors? I would argue that we should not. A little more research and regulation might be in order, but wholesale dismissal seems a bit much.
     
  18. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    The key component there is "seemed" to help. Chiropractic neck manipulations are extremely dangerous. My wife has only been practicing ED medicine for three years and can already attest to multiple cases of arterial dissection due to chiropractic wrenching on necks.

    Unless you like playkng Russian roulette, letting a chiropractor near your neck is a bad idea. Some will say "those were bad chiropractors," but in industry with next to no regulation or standards, how could you ever hope to tell one from the other?

    I don't say that as a criticism of you. I too had my neck "manipulated" when I was younger. That same "doctor" (a very nice guy) later almost killed a man when he dissected a artery in his neck. I can give further details via PM. Don't let those guys near your C-spine.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2012
  19. chiromed0

    chiromed0 Member

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    Asking everyone's pardon for redirecting this thread momentarily. Scoutpilot what is your major malfunction?

    If you care to take 10 minutes to look through any course catalog readily available on practically every accredited chiropractic college's website you can see the required coursework. YES, accredited by regional accrediting agencies..the same ones that accredit the USMA, USNA, USMMA, USCGA AND AFA.

    It's amazing to me to find people like you still around that seem to think because you have training and education in something that you want to appear an expert in everything.

    This sort of profession bashing is pure idiocy. What do YOU know about someone else's qualifications or education? By reading other biased websites? That makes you an expert?

    You are certainly entitled to your opinion and from the 2,200+ posts you have put on this simple forum since 2010 it is apparent you aren't lacking in that capacity. I have a few posts on here simply b/c I love these kids and want to do everything I can to encourage them to succeed, not bash other people.

    I suppose tomorrow I should go into work and tell my colleagues; 2 orthopedic surgeons, 1 family practice MD, 1 Anesthesiologist, 1 Physical Therapist and 1 registered nurse (I'm a nurse by the way, too) that they should quit allowing me to treat patients b/c I'm unqualified and a danger to my patients. All 3,000 of them in the last 8 years. Of course they might want me to stay since they perform joint manipulation, too, but would rather me do it since I spent over 4,000 hours learning how to do it safely and zero injuries. I still carry $1M malpractice insurance, why I have no idea because I don't know a single chiropractor personally that's every been sued for malpractice. There is risk in all medical care, all medicines and with all patients.

    Regardless, no amount of arguing with you will change your opinion. Frankly, I don't want to. If you don't like chiro's that's perfectly fine, some days I don't like them either. However, when you discuss "chiropractic" as if it were a separate treatment modality different from simple joint manipulation you are misleading others. Most patients couldn't care less about the difference b/t chiropractors "subluxations" and osteopaths "somatic dysfunctions" or physical therapists "arthokinematic lesions" as long as they get better. We all use the same basic manual techniques and just call it something different and justify doing it by our own professions theories.

    I have nothing but the utmost respect for medicine (small "m") and all it's facets and practitioners as long as patients get better. I don't care if you want to rub chicken bones over their head. By the way, the major "chiro bashing" website you refer to is run by a retired Psychiatrist who surrendered his medical license, was unable to afford state mandated medical malpractice insurance and a named defendant in multiple lawsuits including a RICO case in Colorado.

    http://www.quackpotwatch.org/opinionpieces/Complaint.pdf

    And you want to school me on credibility and evidence based medicine? :rolleyes:
     
  20. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

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    If you want to believe that I'm some kook who somehow ginned up a bunch of websites about the scam of chiropractic "medicine" that's fine. I only wish I had those sorts of organizational skills.

    Your inflamed response didn't address a few issues...

    1. The dangers of arterial dissection in chiropractic care

    2. The low admissions standards of chiropractic colleges.

    3. Why so many qualified folks (other than the one you were already primed to debunk) from the US, Canada, and the UK are opposed to
    Chiropractors and their trade

    4. The fact that chiropractics is designed to generate lifelong patient dependency through regular manipulations

    5. Why, if it's real science and medicine with real standards, is it only taught at tiny chiro colleges? You can go to a major university and become a DO, DDS, or PT. But the only place you can learn the concept of "subluxation" is at a tiny, virtually unknown school. Why is that?
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2012

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