Out of Nom. Spots for District

Discussion in 'Nominations' started by Stayin'_the_course, Nov 19, 2008.

  1. Stayin'_the_course

    Stayin'_the_course New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2008
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello,

    I've applied to USNA for class of '13 and completed my nomination packets. I didn't recieve nomination interviews from Senators but my Representative's office contacted and informed me that four years ago, there were two "shining stars" [competitive candidates] the academy wanted, so they had to "get creative" to provide nominations for these candidates. As it has turned out, though not completely sure how, their office no longer has any nomination spots open for this year. My representative's office very kindly directly me back to one of my senators and they were able to give me an interview, thankfully. Not that I'm unappreciative at all for recieving an interview in the first place, but I (as well as every other candidate in my district) have lost the "less" competitive chances of getting a nomination from my representative and now have only one shot against the entire state at recieving a nomination. My first question, is this a common problem? Second, could I ask for any advice regarding this matter and my situation? I personally feel like I'm at a disadvantage as well as the other candidates in my district, or I am just misinformed?

    Thank you, I appreciate your help.
     
  2. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,826
    Likes Received:
    2
    Honestly, your Representative's explanation doesn't make sense. Federal law requires that candidates must live in the district that is nominating them.

    It does occassionally happen - due to a variety of scenarios - that a Congressman will not have any open slots for a candidate. Make sure the senator's office understands that a nomination is unavailable for your from your US Representative.

    I don't know how you are at a disadvantage to other candidates in your district - they would be in the same boat as you.
    Did your Congressman offer you a nomination to another academy than the one you chose?
     
  3. Stayin'_the_course

    Stayin'_the_course New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2008
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    The candidates were in the district, that's the reason I'm confused about the situation. Anyway, yes this is one of those scenarios and my senators do know and that is why they provided me with an interview. I didn't say whether I was disadvantaged to the other candidates in my district, "I personally feel like I'm at a disadvantage as well as the other candidates in my district." I'm concerned for not only myself but the other candidates within my district who no longer can get a nomination from our representative at all for this year, (at least for the Naval Academy). I am unsure about the other academies.
     
  4. 2011's Mom

    2011's Mom Parent

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Messages:
    303
    Likes Received:
    1
    Each MOC is allowed to have five charged cadets/mids at each SA at any given time. That typically translates to one a year plus an extra once in awhile. There is a lot of thought that must go into the nomination process to be sure the scenario you outline does not occur. The MOC staffer is typically responsible for planning ahead. If it was four years ago that they "got creative" it doesn't make a lot of sense because they would be graduating in June- also, the numbers don't add up to reflect exactly as you outline it. There must be a little more to the story- though you are not likely to ever hear the whole accounting.

    The bottom line is that it does occur- more often than you'd think. During electoral transitions we sometimes see an incumbent eat up all slots leaving the new MOC with a problem that sometimes does not manifest itself for a few years.

    Interestingly, all the SA's are very active in the nom process - when the MOC submits the NOM's the SA checks to be sure the MOC is not putting themselves into this situation. It is up to the MOC (staffer) to accept or decline the advise of the SA in this regards.

    It is interesting that you are being told that the SA wanted two candidates so the MOC had to be creative to give the noms. The MOC can nominate 10 candidates per open slot. If the MOC had two kids charged to USNA one year that means the MOC MUST HAVE HAD TWO OPENINGS THAT YEAR (there is a distinction between a cadet/mid being charged to the MOC and simply being from the MOC district and charged to another nominating source).

    An astute MOC staffer would have recognized that by placing two that year- there would be zero in a future year and thus would not have sent two slates at that time (holding one to use in your year). In order to get two charged cadets in the same year the MOC must submit two slates (again, note the emphasis on "charged" - a cadet/mid can be from a district and not officially charged to that MOC). The two slates can have exactly the same names on or they can be different. The slates can be in the same form or not - the controlling factor is that the MOC cannot be charged two candidates unless the MOC submits both slates (again each slate has 10 names on it). There really is no "creativity" involved in this part of it. Creativity would have been if a MOC negotiated with the SA back years ago when the SA wanted two cadets/mids to ensure this did not occur now. In my experience, if a SA indicates interest in two candidates from a district, and the MOC has two potential slots - the MOC does not automatically give that slot to the SA to use. Most MOC staffers would discuss the situation with the SA and try and get one of those candidates an LOA (which would not be charged against the MOC) or to play hardball, if you will, and refuse the double spot thereby forcing the SA to use a supe nom instead. It gets very complicated but how the MOC turns in the slate can also have an impact on this type of thing (principal with 9 alternates/principal with 9 ranked alternates or unranked slate). The bottom line, however, is the MOC is required to have submitted a slate (of no more than 10 students but it can be less) per opening. There is no requirement that a MOC submit a slate every year so it is possible that a MOC would choose not to submit a slate at all - though rare, it is conceivable.

    The problem for your MOC this year is that the MOC is barred from submitting a slate if the MOC has zero openings for that year. Typically a MOC will give you a nom to an alternate SA, if the student is deemed to be qualified/competitive etc...
     
  5. popeyesmom

    popeyesmom Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2008
    Messages:
    241
    Likes Received:
    0
    Son has an LOA to USNA. Was just told by his Rep. that his Senator was giving him a nomination. Question. Since he has an LOA, will his nomination be charged to the Senator? If so, the LOA states that he is Guaranteed an Offer of Appointment....what if Senator only has one slot but has 2 or more candidates with LOA.....??
     
  6. 2011's Mom

    2011's Mom Parent

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Messages:
    303
    Likes Received:
    1
    Good question - with a somewhat complicated answer! With an LOA your son only needs a nom, any nom, to get an appointment. Therefore the Senator nom is good and he's in (assume passed med etc). Now, the senator may (or may not) be charged with your son. If the Senator has only one spot with two LOA's that is not a problem because LOA's are not necessarily charged to the MOC. It depends on the type of slate the senator submits. If the senator submits a principal nom and ranked alternates - and does NOT list one of the LOA's as the principal, then the senator will NOT be charged with either LOA because the SA will be obligated to appoint the principal candidate and charge that candidate to the MOC and the two LOA's end up with a sup. If the senator submits an unranked slate with no principal, then the senator MAY be charged with one of the LOA's. The MOC will be charged with the top ranked individual - maybe an LOA recipient and maybe not (typically an LOA recipient). In the second instance, the SA is obligated to select (and charge) the highest candidate regardless of LOA. Many people erroneously believe that an LOA is not charged to a MOC but in reality an LOA may not be charged to the MOC but it CAN be charged. There are some very real intricacies in the whole process that make it very difficult to explain every scenario that may occur. So, in your son's case you need not worry about it - if he is medically qualified, now that he has a nom (and prior LOA), he's going to get an appointment. It may not come immediately but he'll get one. Many times the SA distributes appointments and later shuffles who is "charged" each cadet later. It doesn't matter to the candidate who they are "charged" to. The MOC does get a report monthly (or online) that identifies who they are "charged" with but most MOCs will treat all cadets from their district the same as if they are all "charged" to them. Also - the MOC will be notified if a cadet from their congressional district (state in the case of Senators) is disenrolled - even if they are not the "charged" cadet.

    Hope that helps and makes sense!
     
  7. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2007
    Messages:
    4,628
    Likes Received:
    5
    That's true. Our Congressman had 10 USNA appointments from his district this year, but (of course) not all were charged to him. Yet his website lists all 10 with no difference noted between them.
     
  8. usna1985

    usna1985 USNA Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,509
    Likes Received:
    461
    It really doesn't matter to whom a candidate who accepts an appointment is charged and I'm not sure you ever know for sure. The nomination "slotting" process is somewhat complex and there are folks at USNA whose sole task is doing just that. In my day, they "kind of" told you on some form, but you weren't really sure if that was correct or they just put something down.

    The bottom line: if you have an LOA, are medically and physically qualified, and have AN appointment from ANY source, you are guaranteed an appointment. For the VAST majority of candidates who don't have LOAs, if you are triple Q'ed with one or more noms, you have a good shot at an appointment (and may be guaranteed one if your MOC uses the "principal nom" method).

    Regardless, once you have that appointment in hand, forget about the entity to whom you are "charged." More interesting things to think about -- like I-Day.:biggrin:
     
  9. aggie83

    aggie83 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2008
    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    5
    "candidates an LOA (which would not be charged against the MOC)"

    Can you explain better the above that was posted? Why would LOAs not be charged to the Senators or Representatives?

    Our son has an LOA so just curious. Spoke with our Senator's office yesterday and they told me "unofficially that our son would have a nomination from them" but that they would wait and see who the representatives nominate and then they nominate from who is left so as to give as many applicants nominations as possible since so many applicants from our state. That was kind of reversed from my thought in that I was thinking the Senator would pick first and then Reps would pick from who was left.

    Since our son interviews with the rep (Senators in our state don't interview) on Sat. and has an LOA, I would think he would get picked up by the Rep. A nomination is a nomination, right? We had some conflicts for this weekend to rearrange for the interview and Senate office told us if he could not go to Rep's interview, they would nominate him. However, he is going to the Rep's interview just missing a reception the night before. Any reason to have a Senate nom. over a Rep. nom?
     
  10. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,826
    Likes Received:
    2
    First - with an LOA, a candidate only needs ONE nomination. Any nomination will do, although if they get more the academy had flexibility in awarding other appointments.
    MOC's know this and often times they will "communicate" to see that only ONE nomination is awarded. This way they can give out more nominations and keep their constituents happy.
    There is no difference to one with an LOA between a Senator nomination and a Rep nomination.

    As has been explained before each MOC gets to have 5 cadets/mids charged to them at one time. Most only have 4 and leave an opening.
    So, if a MOC has one per year of that slate of 10 names one will be "charged" to the MOC.
    The rest, while not "charged" will get appointments under the part of US Code that allows the academies to offer 150 appointments to those with a Congressional Nomination.
    There is also a clause in there that allows them to pick from Congressional nominees by merit enough candidates to fill the class.
    This is why LOA's are low in number and relatively rare. They have to be careful with how many they award.

    Bottom line - with a nomination, any nomination and appointment will be had by your son.
     
  11. aggie83

    aggie83 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2008
    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    5
    Still don't understand the following statement posted earlier as to why candidates with an LOA are not charged against the MOC).

    "candidates an LOA (which would not be charged against the MOC)"
     
  12. aggie83

    aggie83 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2008
    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    5
    What is an "sup" referenced in previous post:

    charge that candidate to the MOC and the two LOA's end up with a sup.
     
  13. jennyp

    jennyp Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2008
    Messages:
    828
    Likes Received:
    1
    "Supe" or "Sup" refers to the Superintendent of USNA. Sup has some nominations that may be given, for example, to candidates with LOA's that MOC chose not to nominate. Some MOC's seem to do this, their goal being to get other kiddos in, knowing USNA will try to find a nomination for those with LOA's. Other MOC's give their nominations to those with LOA's. Different strokes for different folks.

    So, Aggie83, are you a TAMU Aggie? My husband is '83, I am '84. We are in Texas Panhandle. Have you heard from Senators yet? Son is pretty much assured nomination on Congressman Thornberry's slate. Thornberry doesn't usually get more than 10 applying to USNA.
     
  14. CadetMom777

    CadetMom777 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2008
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi jennyp! Was checking out the boards and saw your question to Aggie83. I am an Aggie Class of '85! We were all on campus together. I guess it's no coincidence that our kids are all hitting college age about the same time. My son just got accepted to A&M on a 4 year Army ROTC scholarship. We are so happy! For us, that's our Service Academy because that was always his first choice. I am so impressed with all the fine young men & women that are planning on going to the Service Academies, though. From all I have read, it's like being accepted to the Ivy League for the armed forces. Gig 'em!
     
  15. jennyp

    jennyp Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2008
    Messages:
    828
    Likes Received:
    1
    Rereading my post from earlier, I see I sound a bit too confident on the Congressman thing! I am learning that you never know! We were told by MOC's SA coordinator that he does not do interviews because he does not usually get more than ten for USNA and that they submit an unranked slate. Still, one never knows! Son stopped by MOC's office yesterday and was told that they looked at his file earlier in the day and that he looked "really good."

    So, we are waiting! I don't mean to sound like we had the proverbial cat in the bag!
     
  16. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,809
    Likes Received:
    956
    Wow...less than 10. Our DS had over 70 for the Senate and 40 for his MOC. I recall ly a cadet for 13 said his MOC only gave 1 to the AFA. He only had 1 app.
     
  17. jennyp

    jennyp Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2008
    Messages:
    828
    Likes Received:
    1
    At this point I hope it stays less than ten! Senator's office said they received 534 to all SA's.
     
  18. Katienavy?

    Katienavy? Candidate

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2008
    Messages:
    222
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's like that in my Congressional District too (IL-09). Schakowsky's lady in charge of the noms, who I called yesterday, said that usually most applicants with finished files get nominated to USNA.
    Which I guess I took to mean that there are ~ < 15 candidates for noms for USNA there.

    Only 70 for a Senator nom?? Seems a small number to me :smile:
     
  19. popeyesmom

    popeyesmom Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2008
    Messages:
    241
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you all for your explanations! We are excited that he got the nomination and we have a medical to get cleared (shouldn't be a problem) and we will be looking forward to I-DAY.
     
  20. aggie83

    aggie83 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2008
    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    5
    When we called to confirm something with one of our Senators in Texas near the deadline date for submission, she said, "we are a little behind in posting updates to our website as we got 150 applications just yesterday!" Welcome to a very populated state!
     

Share This Page