Parent Concerns

I think your dad was talking about life after the Academy when he was talking about "rough sailors". Actually, I think he was dead on. You can get safe, cushy AF jobs right out of USAFA and never leave an office for an entire career and that is where he wants one of the most precious people in his life (and I am with him on this, as a father of a daughter too). That won't happen aboard ship or in front of a platoon. You'll stand in front of 20 VERY rough and brash sailors who will test you to the limits on your leadership, competency, decision-making and flavored with profanity and (horrors!) sexist acts all to test to see if their lives are safe in your hands. They want to know if they REALLY should trust your orders. If that is not what you relish getting a chance to do, go AF.

I second. Its funny the civ society jumped all over the AF story last Monday. They wouldn't believe daily life for MMers on a boat.
 
Don't come here if you have already set your mind on cross-commissioning. Too many Mids come out of here and are already going active duty. The mission of the Academy is to graduate Merchant Marine officers first to serve the maritime industry. You won't make it through here if you already come in here eliminating your option to sail upon graduation.

Plain and simple don't come here and steal a spot from someone that actually wants to sail upon graduating.
 
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Come here if you want to go to the service academy with the most options upon graduation which include cross commissioning.

I tell the same things to all service academy perspectives. Don't go to Annapolis because you want to be a navy Seal it might not work out and if your unhappy with the prospect of being a naval officer in another field you might search other options for being a Seal. Don't go to the AF academy with you heart set on only being a pilot, you might be an AF officer doing something else.

Same with KP, if you don't like boats, you won't enjoy KP. If you cant handle heavy math and engineering you won't like KP either. But if you want a rich list of options upon graduation KP will provide. You haven't stolen a spot by leaning one way or another as long as your open minded to all options.

As long as cross commissioning remains an option for graduates, it remains a part of the mission about 25% at last glance. But you still have to select and succeed at a major that will be all about the merchant marine. If your merchant marine grades suffer your prospect for cross commissioning will be lower than had you gone ROTC.
 
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I will comment on only two aspects of this thread.

As far as the "rough sailor" notion goes, take it with a grain of salt but don't disregard it. KP is not a place for the fragile or easily offended. If you can't laugh at yourself, take criticism, endure temporary setbacks, or tolerate the sometimes uncouth behavior of others, you might have difficulty here. Brashness, profanity, and the occasional bout of sexism (almost always in jest, but nonetheless) are common. KP has a culture all its own, as well as a dark, cynical, and no-holds-barred sense of humor that would surprise anyone not familiar with it but is totally accepted and even embraced here. It requires a bit of fortitude and ability to take-it-and-throw-it-back, for lack of a better term. Nobody's going to coddle you, but if you can live in the system you will form incredibly tight bonds with your classmates. Realize also that you will be in a numerically highly male-dominated environment (10:1), and that also has it's own sort of culture. I'm pretty sure that's lower than every other Academy. However, because of the way classmates look out for each other, I would wager that Kings Point is a whole lot safer for someone entering the collegiate environment than most colleges, provided that you're not mortally wounded by having your feelings hurt.

Sea year is different but the same. You will be in essentially a semi-industrial environment and will be expected to pull your own weight. If you don't, don't expect anyone to be gentle about telling you so. Even if you do, don't expect a lot of praise and don't be surprised if you get told how to do it better. You will have to prove yourself as a useful member of the crew. And again, you'll be in a male-dominated industry while you're on sea year, even if that's not where you intend to end up.

Regarding the cross-commissioning: there's two things I'll say. First is that, even though you can come here fully intending on going into the Air Force, remember that the reason that you are here is to be trained as a Merchant Mariner. The taxpayers are sending you here for that purpose, and unless you're willing to spend 4 years learning a trade that you don't intent to use, and learning it to the best of your abilities, then you're somewhat wasting that money. If you can learn to be the best merchant marine officer there is, while at the same time learning how to be an effective active duty officer in the Air Force, by all means come to Kings Point. If not, I can't in good conscience advise it. Secondly, as many of my classmates recently found out, just because KP offers the OPTION of satisfying your service commitment by cross commissioning, does not mean YOU will be able to do it. It is by no means a guarantee that you will get the billet you want, or will be accepted into your desired service at all. This year, for example, while Air Force spots were granted, no flight spots were offered. For Coast Guard, only one flight spot was awarded, and only four spots otherwise. Navy, there were some people who didn't even get Surface Warfare spots, which are traditionally pretty easy to get. Marine Corp and Army spots were likewise picky. So, while there are many options... you might find that in the end, it's not as easy as picking fruit off a tree. Under no circumstances should you come here if you will be unhappy sailing as a merchant marine officer should your active duty dreams fall through.

I hope this sheds some light on what can sometimes be nebulous topics. Best of luck with your choice, and remember: this is the start of YOUR life, not your Dad's. I personally think there is something wrong with any parent that wouldn't be proud of their child going to ANY service academy, but, that said, I'm not a parent. Either way, it's time to make your own choices.
 
I will comment on only two aspects of this thread.

As far as the "rough sailor" notion goes, take it with a grain of salt but don't disregard it. KP is not a place for the fragile or easily offended. If you can't laugh at yourself, take criticism, endure temporary setbacks, or tolerate the sometimes uncouth behavior of others, you might have difficulty here. Brashness, profanity, and the occasional bout of sexism (almost always in jest, but nonetheless) are common. KP has a culture all its own, as well as a dark, cynical, and no-holds-barred sense of humor that would surprise anyone not familiar with it but is totally accepted and even embraced here. It requires a bit of fortitude and ability to take-it-and-throw-it-back, for lack of a better term. Nobody's going to coddle you, but if you can live in the system you will form incredibly tight bonds with your classmates. Realize also that you will be in a numerically highly male-dominated environment (10:1), and that also has it's own sort of culture. I'm pretty sure that's lower than every other Academy. However, because of the way classmates look out for each other, I would wager that Kings Point is a whole lot safer for someone entering the collegiate environment than most colleges, provided that you're not mortally wounded by having your feelings hurt.

Sea year is different but the same. You will be in essentially a semi-industrial environment and will be expected to pull your own weight. If you don't, don't expect anyone to be gentle about telling you so. Even if you do, don't expect a lot of praise and don't be surprised if you get told how to do it better. You will have to prove yourself as a useful member of the crew. And again, you'll be in a male-dominated industry while you're on sea year, even if that's not where you intend to end up.

I second this.

As long as I am talking to you, I like you. If I don't like you or don't respect you as a peer, than I just don't talk to you.

We are our own animals and if you haven't been through KP you probably don't truly "get" us. We are exceedingly harsh on each other to the point that it shocks most people but in reality it is all in good fun. My friends and I used to have what we called the "cold corner". We would sit around on the floor at the end of the hall and just say the nastiest things to each other and laugh at each other. Its one of those things that you figure that helps get you through and makes no real sense outside the walls.

I used to say to my wife that it takes us five years after graduation to normalize to society. It's been 16 years and I'm still waiting.
 
I used to say to my wife that it takes us five years after graduation to normalize to society. It's been 16 years and I'm still waiting.

We really shouldn't be allowed in public as much as we are
 
RE: The culture that is all KP's own ..

Piling onto the above three posts re: WAC's statement:

"KP has a culture all its own, as well as a dark, cynical, and no-holds-barred sense of humor that would surprise anyone not familiar with it but is totally accepted and even embraced here. It requires a bit of fortitude and ability to take-it-and-throw-it-back, for lack of a better term. Nobody's going to coddle you, but if you can live in the system you will form incredibly tight bonds with your classmates."

Back in the day I guess it was during my first sea year when I realized all that stuff was really just to prepare me for the first time I was really proud of myself during sea year and the Chief Mate, a hawsepiper as salty as all get out, decided it was a great time to chew my butt really well for a few minor issues and they were indeed minor. You really don't understand the meaning of "no where to hide" until you are a cadet and the Chief mate or 1st A?E decides to see how much they can pile onto you before you shout uncle and throw yourself at their feet begging for mercy. Merchant Mariners have a great tradition of making the new guy feel "welcome" and then just putting them to the test for nothing else but to break the boredom of a long passage in the middle or latter part of their rotation at sea. No, I'm not talking about sexual harrassment, I'm just talking about the usual over critical minor but unceasng harrassment of a Chief Mate or 1st A/E who really is ready to go home but has 30 or more days until that's gonna happen.

The culture at KP is really about making sure the Plebes and Underclass are ready for that, probably started when the Class of 1939 came back from their first rotation at sea - that would be my guess, anyhow.
 
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