parent involvement with application

[armydaughter]

just wanted to state one pet peeve about this site...

It seems like most people that post on here are concerned parents of the kids that are applying.

I dont understand why they are taking a hand in the application!
shouldnt the applicants be asking the questions themselves and not the parents?

It is frustrating to me because it seems that the kids are getting extra help from their parents (ie. parents contacting ALO/emailing/knowing all deadlines for applications), and I'm honestly doing it on my own.

Anyone else have anything to say about this? am I wrong?

just wanted to put my two cents in.

Sometimes it's parents asking because their kids ARE doing it on their own and the parents are curious or concerned.

There are some parts of the process that get put on the parents whether they like it or not. For example, my son had medical remedials and needed records from 5 doctors in three states. He was under 18 and the doctors wouldn't deal with him. All of the record requests had to come from me.

We also had a congressman whose liaison preferred to talk to parents. She said it was just easier than leaving messages for kids who couldn't call back until after school. Would I have told her "no, you have to talk to my son"? Nope.

I also think it's sometimes important for parents to stay informed so they can be a reality check for our kids. Every applicant to a SA is sure that he/she will a) get a nomination b) get an appointment and c) breeze through CBT. They are strong and confident young men and women who have rarely, if ever, failed at achieving what they set out to do. Often it's the parents who are publicly cheerleading that "full steam ahead" attitude while quietly making sure there's a plan B in place.

My point is only that there are so many different scenarios and personal situations you may just need to roll with it.

 

[kinnem]

Let's face it . . . once they are 18 and in college even helipcopter parents get grounded to some extent.

You might be surprised. Some parents fly to new heights. I know of an NROTC midshipman whose Mom called the cadre 3 times to tell them her kid needed to be excused from 0'dark:30 PT sessions so that said child could focus on academics. I was dumbfounded when I heard this. Turns out the kid was excused from PT sessions.... permanently. Of course there was more to the story than that, but that was the funniest part. The tale was truly amazing and I didn't know whether to laugh or cry... so I just laughed.

Kids like that do make you wonder who the hell filled out the application.

 

[bruno]

I like the new term as well!

As others mentioned you can't control what others do. Every high school kid is different in their maturity and drive. Trust me, if a kid isn't applying because they want to, they are going to hate a SA. I think that is really important in the SA process. It is a long tedious process and meant to be. It creates its own attrition. Even if their parents did do the entire application for them, they are still the ones who have to live the SA life physically, mentally and academically. Mom and Dad won't be the ones doing their push ups, calc homework or getting yelled at.

I have no issue with parents guiding, asking questions, etc of their child, but if they are filling out apps beyond financial or medical history (and I actually believe a child should sit down with their parents and fill out the medical so they have a complete understanding of their history as this is important for any kid moving on to adulthood) I think its wrong, but hey that is just my opinion. Everyone has their own views and opinions on it. I was actually speaking to my three former room mates from USNA and asked them how much their parents helped. It seems we all had the same experience, they asked and mentored, but we filled out all our own paperwork and made all the calls. None of us could have imagined our parents doing that for us. Then again this was long enough ago, we didn't have portals and waited for phone calls and snail mail to find out our futures! To be honest after being on this board for awhile, I am sort of glad we didn't have all the electronic stuff, we learned patience and didn't stalk portals for updates. On the other hand the amount of information a candidate has as to what a SA is like is unbelievable and can only help someone truly know what they are encountering. Best of luck in the process!

Pretty good perspective. Each kid is different and not all- in fact most of them - don't have a lot of experience looking at things from perspectives outside their own. (Nor in fact do many of the rest of us even at a far older age- there is a reason that you have someone else review a presentation first before you give it, and a reason why editors have jobs and outside consultants are brought in by businesses- you tend to see what you think you wrote- not what you actually wrote, and often you don't hear things in yourself that others hear, and if you are inexperienced in something you definitely may not have thought thru the next question or the implication of what you have said or done.) So I can't see a parent just turning a blind eye to their kid when they are applying for something as competitive and which requires as big a commitment as an SA appointment. However, I also can't imagine parents actually doing the applicatuion for them, and re: the earlier thread, I definitely can't imagine me or my parents calling the Commandant's office to inquire or complain about young Cosmo or Cosmoline's treatment on post.

To your last point- All that information out there and yet I am often surprised when several kids each year bailout in the first couple of days at VMI. There is literally nothing that they couldn't see on youtube or evn the school's website, and yet some kids still seem to be badly surprised when they can't make a Tee-Time on the morning of the first day. When I was a Rat (back in the deepest darkest days of the 70s when Jerry Ford was falling down stairs and Jimmy Carter was still lusting in his heart), you knew pretty much what the catalog told you - now with every phone a video camera and youtube and facebook on every screen-a new cadet just shouldn't be surprised at what they are in for. And yet

 

[USNA02]

You might be surprised. Some parents fly to new heights. I know of an NROTC midshipman whose Mom called the cadre 3 times to tell them her kid needed to be excused from 0'dark:30 PT sessions so that said child could focus on academics. I was dumbfounded when I heard this. Turns out the kid was excused from PT sessions.... permanently. Of course there was more to the story than that, but that was the funniest part. The tale was truly amazing and I didn't know whether to laugh or cry... so I just laughed.

Kids like that do make you wonder who the hell filled out the application.

Oh my, that does seem a bit extreme! I think DS1 or DS2, either one, would disown me!

 

[MemberLG]

. . .

It is frustrating to me because it seems that the kids are getting extra help from their parents (ie. parents contacting ALO/emailing/knowing all deadlines for applications), and I'm honestly doing it on my own.

more than my two cents,

Life is not fair.

"Helping" parents can help or hurt their kids sooner or later.

 

[Stevewar2]

No Parental Involvement

I had no help in high school. I once skipped 41 straight days of class and my mom didn't bat an eye after I asked for an excusal slip. That's partly why it took me three extra years to get an appointment. I take a different approach with my D. I ask her at least once a week if she is serious about going to West Point. I then badger/coach/show her the path and make her do the work.

 

[nick4060]

just wanted to state one pet peeve about this site...

It seems like most people that post on here are concerned parents of the kids that are applying.

I dont understand why they are taking a hand in the application!
shouldnt the applicants be asking the questions themselves and not the parents?

It is frustrating to me because it seems that the kids are getting extra help from their parents (ie. parents contacting ALO/emailing/knowing all deadlines for applications), and I'm honestly doing it on my own.

Anyone else have anything to say about this? am I wrong?

just wanted to put my two cents in.

I handled all the applications/interviews on my own. I've been on active duty for a little while now and my parents still have very little idea of what I do for a living, other than the fact that I'm in the Air Force.

I personally think its important for the applicant to take the lead in all this. It gets them in the habit to staying on top of their career. Once they get on active duty there certainly won't be anyone looking out for them. I know I thought that managing a few college/ROTC applications was a lot of work. I was definitely surprised when i saw how much more work it was to deal with TMO, Finance, MPS, Flight Med, security clearances, etc, etc.

 

[zachserna7]

our DS did everything on his own. There were several times when we offered to help and he said no, and reminded us that it was his deal.

Doesn't mean that I knew everything about the process though...who said my questions were for the DS? i asked a ton for his idiot dad...


I applaud your independence. I would challenge your concern about others. In the end, it doesn't matter what the other guys/ gals are doing. You will be better prepared. That is what matters.

you sound exactly like my dad! thanks for the thoughts

 

[Pima]

Doesn't mean that I knew everything about the process though...who said my questions were for the DS? i asked a ton for his idiot dad...

+1

I believe knowledge is better than ignorance. I really have not seen threads here where parents are saying we were up until midnight last night editing their essay or prompting questions for the nom interview. I do see threads asking what they should wear to an interview or medical questions.
~ I do not see that as heloing, I see it as do we need to go and spend 200 bucks for suit that they will wear for a 15 min interview?
~ As a minor, the folks are in charge of their medical records, and many kids can't remember what was the exact diagnosis they had in 8th grade, but I bet anything the parents can not only remember it, but the month, and the docs name that gave the diagnosis.

I think you may see more parents on the ROTC threads, but that is IMPO truly not a helo aspect. It is a financial aspect. They are making decisions if that dream college can actually become reality.

 

[Vista123]

I also have a pile 'o kids and the first two are Irish Irish-twins.
They couldn't be more dissimilar.

The oldest one wanted to bounce everything off me all the time within this entire process. We'd discuss options details and minutia and he'd want me to check and double-double check. I thought he'd have a hard time letting go when he went to *Not school. Yup I thought he'd miss me dreadfully...wouldnt be able to manage without me......yup, still waiting to be missed....still waiting...Im sure that he will start missing me soon....

Son number two wants to argue about everything. I'd offer well reasoned researched advice, sound ideas and he never took any of my suggestions. Things seem to be going his way...despite my repeated offers of assistance and unsolicited advice....Im sure he will miss me...right....?


...Bueller?.....Bueller? ....Anyone? ....Anyone?

 

[zachserna7]

+1

I believe knowledge is better than ignorance. I really have not seen threads here where parents are saying we were up until midnight last night editing their essay or prompting questions for the nom interview. I do see threads asking what they should wear to an interview or medical questions.
~ I do not see that as heloing, I see it as do we need to go and spend 200 bucks for suit that they will wear for a 15 min interview?
~ As a minor, the folks are in charge of their medical records, and many kids can't remember what was the exact diagnosis they had in 8th grade, but I bet anything the parents can not only remember it, but the month, and the docs name that gave the diagnosis.

I think you may see more parents on the ROTC threads, but that is IMPO truly not a helo aspect. It is a financial aspect. They are making decisions if that dream college can actually become reality.

Very true. All good points. I agree that there should be some involvement with the app, especially in instances where their parents are the only resource they can go to.

I was mainly stressing the point, that I feel like, there are many parents who are almost doing the application for the kid, and forcing them to finish it, rather then kindly remindiing them if they need to finish or just ask how it is going so far.

All in all, involvement is a good thing, but there is a fine line.

 

[MedB]

Helicopter parents rarely realize they're helicopter parents. ... ...
You are correct. Parents are too involved, and hold hands too often with kids that are perfectly able to apply on their own.

Lits,

Hopefully the "tone" in my reaction comes across correctly here in this medium.

I clearly remember reading on the forum here about a pet peeve of your's regarding folks who have not "been there and done that" giving advice about the military or wanting in on the good-natured ribbing that goes on. The essence being if you haven't lived it, you haven't earned the right. I took that to heart.

So I'm sure you can appreciate how some folks might feel when they read your opinions above about what children can and can't do on their own from someone who has never even had or raised a child.

Perhaps your powers of discernment are so keen that you can do what no one else can... be a fully entitled expert on an experience you've never had. I, for one, am not so gifted.

 

[LineInTheSand]

I can probably speak on what kids can and can't do because I was a kid who did do, and as a cadre I interacted with parents who's kids did not.

 

[pointguard]

Then maybe I can comment

on Army Special Forces since I saw John Wayne as a kid in the Green Beret movie! I believe MedB makes a valid point, take for what it is, you ask that of us.

 

[LineInTheSand]

on Army Special Forces since I saw John Wayne as a kid in the Green Beret movie! I believe MedB makes a valid point, take for what it is, you ask that of us.

If you were a Green Beret, sure. If not, probably not.

To comment on what it's like to be a midshipman or cadet, it is credible to be/have been a midshipman or cadet. We've established that. There are still parents who think they have a clue in this area. They are mistaken.

To comment on if "kids" are able to apply to an academy, one does not HAVE to be a parent. I applied as a young adult. Yes, my parents knew what I was doing. Somehow I was able to apply.

If you, as a parent think your kid is incapable of APPLYING to an academy on his/her own, then I have news for you, they will probably be incapable of succeeding, and I would bet.... won't graduate.

Keep in mind, their ability to apply doesn't need to match the reality of your input. Probably they would be just fine. But if that application process for them is too daunting and REQUIRES you to do it for them, they will fail at an academy, no doubt.

I'm talking about the application process and I'm not commenting on your overall parenting or how involved or overinvolved you are will the decision-making process, although, it's safe to say, in some circumstances, they are related.

So yes, I believe I CAN speak with some authority, about applying, as a young adult.

And I should probably re-state this, I am not against parents being INVOLVED with the application process, but I am against they DOING the application or DIRECTING the application process for their kids. And yes.... parents DO do this.

 

[pointguard]

Thank you for

your parental input. I am in awe of the wide range of expertise you give in the length and breadth of your posts. I've learned a lot in DS's SA process, as has he. I trust he also will be a humble servant in the discharge of his Duty as he and his world evolves. I congratulate you on all your successes. Oct. AFA LOA see's him moving into that space, I'm quite sure he too has earned every inch of it.

 

[FlyBoy1993]

welp.

This was a pretty good discussion...

 

[MedB]

To comment on what it's like to be a midshipman or cadet, it is credible to be/have been a midshipman or cadet. We've established that. There are still parents who think they have a clue in this area. They are mistaken.
.

I agree with you 100% on this (as I often do btw). But then surely this must be true too...

To comment on what it's like to help your teenager through making a decade-long life decision and keep them on track through the process, it is credible to have/had a child you've parented. We've established that. There are still those non-parents who think they have a clue in this area. They are mistaken.

********************************
On a personal note, while we've crossed swords on a couple of things, I agree with you on most points. And I appreciate that your contribute to a forum aimed at helping our future military leaders.

 

[MemberLG]

. . . .There are still parents who think they have a clue in this area. They are mistaken.

There are exceptions. I am a parent and I am very knowledgable

 

[LineInTheSand]

Absolutely there are exceptions.