Pat Tillman doc suspicious

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by Just_A_Mom, Jul 27, 2007.

  1. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    Report: Tillman doc was suspicious of wounds




    By Martha Mendoza - The Associated Press
    Posted : Friday Jul 27, 2007 7:31:19 EDT

    SAN FRANCISCO — Army medical examiners were suspicious about the close proximity of the three bullet holes in Pat Tillman’s forehead and tried without success to get authorities to investigate whether the former professional football player’s death amounted to a crime, according to documents obtained by The Associated Press.
    “The medical evidence did not match up with the, with the scenario as described,” a doctor who examined Tillman’s body after he was killed on the battlefield in Afghanistan in 2004 told investigators.
    The doctors — whose names were blacked out — said the bullet holes were so close together that it appeared the Army Ranger was cut down by an M16 fired from a mere 10 yards or so away.
    The Pentagon and the Bush administration have been criticized in recent months for lying about the circumstances of Tillman’s death. The military initially told the public and the Tillman family that he had been killed by enemy fire. Only weeks later did the Pentagon acknowledge he was gunned down by fellow Rangers.

    Related reading:
    3-star my be demoted over Tillman death

    Ultimately, the Defense Department did conduct a criminal investigation, and asked Tillman’s comrades whether he was disliked by his men and whether they had any reason to believe he was deliberately killed. The Pentagon eventually ruled that Tillman’s death at the hands of his comrades was a friendly-fire accident.
    The medical examiners’ suspicions were outlined in 2,300 pages of testimony released to the AP this week by the Defense Department in response to a Freedom of Information Act request.
    Among other information contained in the documents:
    • In his last words moments before he was killed, Tillman snapped at a panicky comrade under fire to shut up and stop “sniveling.”
    • Army attorneys sent each other congratulatory e-mails for keeping criminal investigators at bay as the Army conducted an internal friendly-fire investigation that resulted in administrative, or noncriminal, punishments.
    • The three-star general who kept the truth about Tillman’s death from his family and the public told investigators some 70 times that he had a bad memory and could not recall details of his actions.
    • No evidence at all of enemy fire was found at the scene — no one was hit by enemy fire, nor was any government equipment struck.
    With questions lingering about how high in the Bush administration the deception reached, Congress is preparing for yet another hearing next week.
    The Pentagon is separately preparing a new round of punishments, including a stinging demotion of retired Lt. Gen. Philip R. Kensinger Jr., 60, according to military officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because the punishments under consideration have not been made public.
    In more than four hours of questioning by the Pentagon inspector general’s office in December 2006, Kensinger repeatedly contradicted other officers’ testimony, and sometimes his own. He said on some 70 occasions that he did not recall something.
    At one point, he said: “You’ve got me really scared about my brain right now. I’m really having a problem.”
    Tillman’s mother, Mary Tillman, who has long suggested that her son was deliberately killed by his comrades, said she is still looking for answers.
    “Nothing is going to bring Pat back. It’s about justice for Pat and justice for other soldiers. The nation has been deceived,” she said.
    The documents show that a doctor who performed an autopsy on Tillman’s body was suspicious of the three gunshot wounds to the forehead. The doctor said he took the unusual step of calling the Army’s Human Resources Command and was rebuffed. He then asked an official at the Army’s Criminal Investigation Division if the CID would consider opening a criminal case.
    “He said he talked to his higher headquarters and they had said no,” the doctor testified.
    Also according to the documents, investigators pressed officers and soldiers on a question Mrs. Tillman has been asking all along.
    “Have you, at any time since this incident occurred back on April 22, 2004, have you ever received any information even rumor that Cpl. Tillman was killed by anybody within his own unit intentionally?” an investigator asked then-Capt. Richard Scott.
    Scott, and others who were asked, said they were certain the shooting was accidental.
    Investigators also asked soldiers and commanders whether Tillman was disliked, whether anyone was jealous of his celebrity, or if he was considered arrogant. They said Tillman was respected, admired and well-liked.
    The documents also shed new light on Tillman’s last moments.
    It has been widely reported by AP and others that Spc. Bryan O’Neal, who was at Tillman’s side as he was killed, told investigators that Tillman was waving his arms shouting “Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat (expletive) Tillman, damn it!” again and again.
    But the latest documents give a different account from a chaplain who debriefed the entire unit days after Tillman was killed.
    The chaplain said O’Neal told him he was hugging the ground at Tillman’s side, “crying out to God, help us. And Tillman says to him, ‘Would you shut your (expletive) mouth? God’s not going to help you; you need to do something for yourself, you sniveling ...”
     
  2. Antoinette

    Antoinette Founding Member

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    Why was Spc. O'Neal "hugging the ground"? Weren't they under attack when Cpl. Pat Tillman died?
     
  3. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    Apparently they were being shot at by "their own" - there was no enemy fire.
    3 bullet holes to the forehead? Geez - how did anyone think this would be covered up?
    I am thinking there is a lot more to this story - the coverup goes to a 3 star General. Stay tuned..............................
     
  4. bz2010

    bz2010 Member

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    If O'Neal was afraid of being hit also, doesn't that imply that Tilman was not a "deliberate" target?

    It's difficult to make the leap that Tilman was "assassinated" just because of the three wounds to his forehead - the only thing that can be concluded is that the people shooting at him were very very accurate.

    It has been established that this is a case of "friendly fire", and while tragic to the extreme, if I were a juror in this case, I'd have to see a lot more evidence to support the "assassination" claim before I could find anyone guilty of a crime such as murder.

    Of course this opinion is based solely on what was in the posted article. I'll be interested to see what else comes forward in the ensuing investigation. Very interesting J_A_M, thanks for posting.
     
  5. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    And the saga continues:

    Soldier next to Tillman disputes new info



     
  6. GreatAmerican

    GreatAmerican Member

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    3-star censured for actions in Tillman case

    http://www.navytimes.com/news/2007/07/army_tillman_070731w/

     
  7. GreatAmerican

    GreatAmerican Member

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    Rumsfeld testifying at Tillman hearing today

    http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/07/army_rumsfeldtillman_070731/

     
  8. GreatAmerican

    GreatAmerican Member

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  9. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    Coverups usually get very very ugly. Will people never learn?
     
  10. nosmileysforme

    nosmileysforme Member

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    They've gone too easy on retired Lt. Gen. Philip Kensinger. To quote from the censure letter:

    "To quote Gen. Wallace, ``When you chose to lie about what you knew in order to avoid personal responsibility for your actions, you crossed a line that demands serious rebuke.'' "

    He should be demoted to private and stripped of his retirement for his actions.
     
  11. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    It would not surprise me terribly if he were not simply following orders.
     
  12. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    What????????????
    Are you saying that Gen Kensiger was "simply following orders"?
     
  13. USNA69

    USNA69 Banned

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    Following orders, following procedures, doing what was expected of him, of course. The White House will most certainly claim executive priviledge, or whatever, not to testify. The White House and Washington politics jumped on his death as if it were a gold mine, using it for all it was worth. Don't pretend that the control freak, SecDef Rumsfield was not all over this whole episode, totally in charge. The coverup did not start with SpecOps. Just my humble opinion.

    And the assassination type killing is even more intriguing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2007
  14. nosmileysforme

    nosmileysforme Member

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    "It would not surprise me terribly if he were not simply following orders."

    Me neither, but it's the weakest defense possible.

    "And the assassination type killing is even more intriguing."

    The plot definately thickens!
     
  15. GreatAmerican

    GreatAmerican Member

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