Pentagon unit held 'phony' ceremonies for MIAs, using planes that can't fly

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by tankercaptain, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. tankercaptain

    tankercaptain Member

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  2. T-Bone

    T-Bone Member

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    I wish NBC news would investigate themselves for the one sided, biased journalism they consistently spew.
     
  3. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    I understand what your comment means, in general, but explain how it applies to this story.
     
  4. T-Bone

    T-Bone Member

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    It is an NBC News investigation.
     
  5. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Yes, but one you would want to have....
     
  6. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    I guess the question I have for the writer of this is: "so what"? They held a ceremony to represent the return of his remains officially to the US. WHAT DIFFERENCE does it make if the remains didn't does it actually make if the remains (which are pretty much just bone fragments) actually first went to the lab to be identified. Or maybe they should hold a ceremony right away with a disclaimer: "we welcome to the United States remains that are either those of our honored soldier- lost and now found, or else are a bunch of animal bones and dust" ? And if he is really so concerned about an accurate representation - why not complain about wasting a coffin?Would the author of this "expose" say that it is more appropriate that they hand a zip lock baggie to the family since that is often all that is really being returned and let it go?

    Ceremony is always mostly symbolism to begin with, but the fact that it is symbolic doesn't make it any less important to the individuals involved and the country. This was a story by some jerk reporter bent on exposing the "truth" whether or not the "truth" is all that important. It's a ceremony showing our respect for the soldier who died in our name, and the travel itinerary of the remains is hardly an issue. What a BS issue to create a story about. NBC News gets two :thumbdown::thumbdown: on this story.
     
  7. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    I've seen this issue discussed on Facebook the past few weeks, especially by some PAOs (some with 30+ years experience and at senior leadership roles in their organizations) and I have yet to see a "so what" comment out of them.

    A few years ago the Army doctored photos of two KIA soldiers (they used the body shot of one with the head of the other). Eventually the AP got wind and for about a 48 hour period gave the Army a lot of trouble.

    "So what?" So the military has to have the trust of the people. If it's not a body, fine. But disclose that. If not, it looks political. And no, I wouldn't put it past our leaders to do things for political reasons (I include military leaders as well).

    If I can't trust the military for this, can I really trust them with weapons, missiles, death numbers, etc etc etc?

    If the answer is increasingly "No" we're going to have a number of problems. Is this issue the cause or a symptom? I'd say probably a symptom of something bigger.
     
  8. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    I was ignoring the story, but Bruno's comment got me interested.

    If this was a real investigative journalism, it should have focused on why and even give some alternative rational.

    I see this as a misguided publicity attempt by JPAC that NBC is exploiting. I also can't give too much credit to a report that misidentifies a GO - "Army Maj. Gen. Kelly K. McKeague." His is Air Force.

    So when a JPAC recovery team find some bone fragments near an U.S. airplane wreckage from WW II/Vietnam War, what should they do? Perhaps put it in a coffin, arrange for a military plane (perhaps a C 17), and have a real "arrival" ceremony. Of course that bone fragment might never be identified or this process will add several million dollars. Or we can delay brining home possible remains of MIA/KIAs for identification to synchronize with an "arrival ceremony." If you do it one, you have to do it for all. Some folks will complaint that we are not honoring those that have fallen, but the same folks will complaint that the DoD is wasting money.
     
  9. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    I completely agree Bruno. After all, they accepted "What difference does it make" from a certain Secretary of State with no problems. It a shame they can't see the importance of the symbolism. Honoring someone, is honoring someone, whether the damned plane can fly or not.
     
  10. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    The symbolism? It's a white wash. That's clean up the cost of war for the American people? This should digust you. Let's have everyone assume sons and daughters come home in clean, flag drapped coffins, even if that's not true? Why? So the event looks better for our leaders? And you think the SHOW is how someone wants to be honored?

    "Pretend like they flew me in. Pretend like I'm here."

    Here's a hint: Why I die, don't white wash my death or pretend anything.

    It makes a difference. It's a lie. It might be a nicely done lie. It might ease the hearts of people who look at the photos. But this isn't truth. This isn't "symbolism". It's a lie.

    I'm a little disturbed how accepting we are with this. Oh, it involves death, so we all need to just accept it? This action is no different from changing the facts of a story, or doctoring a photo. "Let's wheel a plane over..." WHY? Because HISTORICALLY that's how it's done? NO! This isn't "tradition". This isn't doing it the old way. It's a show. It's a circus. It's willful deceit by an arm of the federal government, and by members of the military.

    And it's pathetic.

    We can (and have) honored the dead without resorting to "good photo ops" and imagery that is inconsisted with the reality of the situation.
     
  11. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    To quote Col. Nathan R. Jessep "[American people] can't handle the truth."

    Better to create some lies to let people feel good about themselves than give them the truth, in certain situations.
     
  12. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    Exactly what truth are they hiding? That the guy is dead and has been dead for 50-60 - even 70 years? What truth do you think they are hiding when they bring them off the plane at Dover? What truth were they hiding when they buried Scotty? What truth am I missing when I walk thru section 60- or section 58 ?
    That is BS . Those people and families know damn well that whtehr there family member has been gone for 12 weeks or 50 years that they are dead and that they died as soldiers. this is about some chickenSxxt reporter who thinks he can gin up a scandal out of nothing becaus eit might sell a few papers.
     
  13. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    What truth are you missing? If Arlington is random burying bodies, or putting multiple remains in the same grave.... I'd want to know. Regardless of the ceremony, it's wrong. And then imagine the reasoning is "what difference does it make?"

    Here's a little clue in, not everyone trusts the military. Not everyone believes them. Every times something like this, for added show, or when an ex NFLer is killed by friendly fire, and it's hidden.... that erodes a trust that isn't automatic.

    I don't think this is "out of nothing." Willful ignorance isn't any better here.
     

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