Pertinence of being a certified private pilot to admissions

Discussion in 'Merchant Marine Academy - USMMA' started by crypto186, Jul 15, 2012.

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  1. crypto186

    crypto186 Member

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    I have been working on achieving a private pilot certificate. It will take me 50 hours of flight training and another 50 hours of ground training. It is quite time consuming. My main question is: how relevant is being a certified private pilot to the admission team? I am confident to achieve it, but I wonder how much it will matter to them. To be frank, my time could be spent on other tasks that could better my profile. Which is why I am beginning to doubt if having a PPC will be a benefit to me.
     
  2. KPEngineer

    KPEngineer Eternal Father ...

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    Anything that shows you to be a well rounded individual is a good thing but its not going to be some kind of magic bullet that will get you in. Its just another extra-curricular activity.

    It is better to achieve a high level of success in a few things than to just be involved in many.
     
  3. Sunk @ the Docks

    Sunk @ the Docks Member

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    Ships do not fly.
     
  4. luv2fly

    luv2fly Member

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    Tell that to Captain Mark Kelly.
     
  5. crypto186

    crypto186 Member

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    Plenty can be learned from flying that applies to sailing. Take charting for an example, I am positive that when sailing you plan where you are going and how you are planning to get there. You most likely use a chart/map for reference. The same goes for flying cross-country, I use a chart, I mark radio frequencies for towers and airfields. A lot of what you learn from flying will surely come in handy when sailing. I hope admissions will acknowledge this.
     
  6. tankercaptain

    tankercaptain Member

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    You would be better served getting your MMC and working towards getting your master of inland steam or motor vessels of not more than 100 gross tons.
     
  7. crypto186

    crypto186 Member

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    MMC? I'm assuming that is some sort of sailing credential. Doesn't seem likely for me to get that, especially since I live hundreds of miles away from any coastline or lake.
     
  8. tankercaptain

    tankercaptain Member

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    If you really want to go to Kings Point, I suggest you take the time to research what the merchant marine is, and what pertains to being a merchant mariner. With that being said, if Kings Point is your top choice, regardless of living near bodies of water you can always go to summer sailing camps or semesters at sea. If you are willing to spend the money to learn to fly that money would be better spent on semester at sea or tall ship sailing camps.
     
  9. crypto186

    crypto186 Member

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    I am always open to new experiences. What you say certainly sounds like a good idea. I will keep it in mind. It so happened that flying was the more convenient decision. There is an airport a few blocks from my home. My job is a few blocks from my home. I work to pay for fuel. But never would I have the wages to pay for a semester at Sea. My best guess would be that if I lived a few blocks from a shipyard I would have done the same. But then, when applying to the Air Force Academy and Naval, someone might tell me I should have gone to a flight ground training school in Florida rather than learning about sailing.
     
  10. tankercaptain

    tankercaptain Member

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    What do you want to do? Do you want to fly? Do you want to go to sea? 33% of Naval Academy graduates become aviators or NFOs. If you really want to go flight I suggest sticking to the Air Force Academy, Air Force ROTC. Going to Kings Point with the hopes of going flight could be very disappointing. Remember what you are going to be trained as at Kings Point. It could be a difficult 4 years and an even more difficult sea year wanting to be an aviator.
     
  11. crypto186

    crypto186 Member

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    Aviation is an extra curricular for me. I take it as learning a new skill. I am sure not everyone that gets admitted to USMMA has had the privilege to sail a boat. If I get admitted I will have no problem with learning to sail. I'm always open to learning new things, more power to me. The main purpose of this thread was to receive input on how having a pilots license is perceived by admissions and from other people in general. I know it is not common for candidates, I've read about two and heard of one that are in KP, to be certified as a pilot in command. I was only questioning its pertinence.
     
  12. KPEngineer

    KPEngineer Eternal Father ...

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    MMCs are only the whole point Kings Point even exists! You're right, you probably won't get that. This post shows a total lack of even. Basic understanding of what the school is training someone to be. KP doesn't exists to train pilots so being a rated pilot offers no more easier path in than being certified in XYZ. It's an extracurricular that shows a certain level of dedication to complete ... Good for you. You do deserve credit for that. Your question was answered, move on with the rest of your application.

    I always am dumbfounded by posters who show little to no knowledge and understanding of the school or industry who then want to argue with alumni with decades of experience.
     
  13. MumKP2015

    MumKP2015 Member

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    Remember, No question is a bad question. Our DS was very interested in flying when he received his appointment to KP. As time has gone on he has changed his mind. Keep asking questions, and visit the Academy to see if it is right for you. This is an open forum, and all questions from Applicants, parents, and alumni should always be welcome. :smile:
     
  14. KPEngineer

    KPEngineer Eternal Father ...

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    Absolutely nothing wrong with asking the question, it's how you handle the answer. I personally enjoy answering questions and passing on the knowledge and wisdom ... Well knowledge anyway, I have gained over the years. I suspect that is a large part of the reason there are any alumni here. On the same token please realize we know what we are talking about and don't be surprised that some frustration may seep out if someone sounds like they don't know that the Merchant Marine is different than the US Marines.
     
  15. Navy1987

    Navy1987 Member

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    It continues to dumbfound (and frustrate me) how a small number of KP alumni tend to hijack a large number of threads on this forum in an apparent attempt to turn the academy into a branch of Nassau County Tecnical Institute. The place is a military academy and a service academy (there is no distinction or separation) whose graduates are all US Naval Reserve officers if not commissioned into another branchof the military (you did take an oath of office didn't you) and leaders in the Maritime Service as well as every branch of our coutries military and in every community within that branch, including the astronaut corps!
    West point doesn't exist soley to produce infantry officers, Annapolis ship drivers, or Air Force pilots...all five academies exist to train leaders for this country, period....embrace it or get out of the way.
     
  16. KPSQRD

    KPSQRD Member

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    NAVY 1987 -- It's a good thing USNA doesn't exist solely to produce ship drivers since they had mids bring 4 YP's to visit KP earlier this month, showed up without any charts on board and grounded 2 of them off Steppingstone Light outside the basin. Yeah- need some work in the ship driving department.............
     
  17. tankercaptain

    tankercaptain Member

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    Navy1987
    I would like to address your post.
    First your anology to the other service academies shows your general lack of knowledge of Kings Point and the merchant marine.
    1. USMA has over 2 dozen majors and graduates army officers that upon graduation must attend their respective branch officer basic course, so not a good comparison. The army is a large organization with many facets and it's officers do a varitey of jobs, from infantry, aviation, SF, transportation and more so to compare them to a merchant marine officer is not a good comparsion.
    2. USNA has over a dozen majors and and it's graduates can drive ships, fly planes, become seebees, submariners, Marine Officers, SUPO and the list goes on. Last time I check there is no merchant marine flight.
    3. USAFA the same as USNA and USMMA. Your comparison is very poor.
    4. The 80% that receive a commission in the naval reserve do so in the Strategic Sealift Officer Program. The SSO program requires all it's members to hold an active merchant marine license or as now a MMC. The program has 2,000 members in the IRR and 200 SELERS and again they must have an active officer license. The biggest money maker for the program is the Harbor Pilot Detachment (some will argue with me on this, but look at the numbers). So who are those naval officers that are part of the Harbor Pilot Detachment. They are state pilots, who what hold an active license.
    5. I suggest you take the time to read 46CFR and see what the requirements are to obtain a license. There is a reason why there are only two majors at Kings Point. (Yes, two everything else is a varation of the two. Logistics guys take a few logistic electives rather than the history of film like the straight deckies do. Shipyard guys do a shipyard internship. Systems guys take the design class, while sweat hogs take refeer II). You don't go to KP to study english or economics like West Point, USNA, or USAFA.
    There is a reason why the class of 2015 Shoppers will no longer be able to take the QMED exam. Obtaining a license is becoming more and more difficult as the IMO continues to create new requirements. Remember this KP GRADS DO NOT NEED FOLLOW ON SCHOOLING TO DO THEIR JOB UNLIKE THE OTHER SERVICE ACADEMIES.
    You should as yourself why KP is making everyone graduate with fast rescue boats or with their Tankerman PIC.
    Finally, you post shows your general lack of the merchant marine and KP, it really does. It's not the Naval Academy, it never will be and never should be. To compare it as such is naive.
    Kings Point is a college, a technical school, a service academy and a military academy. However it's first job is to make merchant mariners.
    It the naval academy started having 40% of its graduating class go active duty air force, someone somewhere in congress would say why are we keeping this place open.
    Educate yourself
     
  18. crypto186

    crypto186 Member

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    I only found fault with me not knowing the acronym MMC, although my guess was pretty darn close:wink:. I will admit though, I do not know KP like any of its alumni or midshipmen; I have a lot to learn about the academy. What I do know is that being admitted to a Service Academy is my only chance for a prestigious college education. For me, an opportunity to go a Service Academy, whether it be flying with the USAFA or sailing with USMMA, is enough to inspire me to apply to all of them. It is not important to me which of the 5 I get into. And do not get a wrong picture of me here, I love the military, and all it stands for, If i do not get a place in any of the SA's I will join the army and become an officer the longer way. As the recruiter told me: "there are many roads to Rome." I am not close minded person. I have a goal: to become a commissioned officer for the military.
     
  19. jasperdog

    jasperdog Member

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    My Turn - Thoughts On This Thread and How It's Progressed

    First - crypto186: I imagine you have been tempted several times to respond "in kind" to the somewhat strange tone of some of the replies you've gotten along with the useful information to your question. I want to thank you for acting with restraint and responding at all times RESPECTFULLY and WITH THE OPEN MIND you have displayed throughout this thread. You sound like an excellent PC and whichever Academy ends up with you as part of their student body should be proud to have you. You should do well if you are as mature as you seem to be from your posts here.

    Second: KPEngineer - I've read this entire thread and for the life of me I can't see what prompted your reply to the PC (crypto186) - he asked a question and responded to follow-ups with what seem like genuine questions. Then he got some answers, at all times he was respectful, his responses don't seem at all negative or flippant. It seems to me you are a little defensive and "quick to the trigger" on this one. - Just my opinion.

    Third: Navy1987 and tankercaptain USMMA is NOT a Military Academy, it is a service academy but it's not a military academy. No more so than any University with a large ROTC program is. Sorry never was, never will be - as someone earlier said what was it, oh yeah - "embrace it or get out of the way."

    Fourth: tankercaptain - most folks really love it when you speak to them like they are newly licensed third mates or deck cadets on a vessel you are Master of <note sarcasm here.> As far as your feelings on the shopper program go, as far as I know there is no reason whatsoever that would prevent a continuation of the program other than some folks in the Marine transportation program seem to share your bias against it, not all of us share that view. Also there are several Western nations where everyone is becoming dual licenses at their federally funded Maritime Academies, I hope for those following in our footsteps, this decision (abandoning the Shopper Program) doesn't put them at a disadvantage going forward. Further a major is a major and there are five not two of them. There are two license tracks but five majors, but then you knew that, didn't you? It's likely hard since by day you a ship's Master and used to being at least a half step above the other human beings in the room with you, it's really probably not your most endearing trait or the thing you are best at but you might try at least checking you response for spelling and grammar even if you aren't willing to count to 100 before hitting send - especially the "snarky" ones.

    Fifth: Navy1987: It continues to dumbfound me how a small number of participants here, who don't know much about the history or traditions of the USMMA in particular, or the US Merchant Marine in general make uniformed statements and want this forum to reflect what THEY think or want the USMMA to be instead of what it really is. It is a Federal Service Academy that is the Nation's Maritime Academy. Please pause here for a second. A Maritime Academy whether it's the Federal one (USMMA) or one of the State Maritime Academies, is indeed basically a trade school, all be it, a world class trade school. As noted, when we graduate we don't have to go to any other schooling before we walk on to a ship and to use a term you'll certainly understand "take the conn" if we are third mates or run an engine room if we are 3rd A/Es. That's who we are, that is the defining difference between us and you and your USNA Class of 1987 Classmates or other USNA, USAFA, and/or USMA graduates. We are proud of that fact and it drives a lot of differences between us and you. It's entirely likely that when your DS or DD graduates they too will have embraced it and they will sound a LOT like us on these points. Once again to use your phrase: "embrace it or get out of the way."

    Also while we are all hijacking a thread, if you want to talk about something and get us all really going how about we discuss how you and your classmates would feel about an O-6, let alone an Army/Non-Sea Service O-6, being named Super of Annapolis... Yeah we alumni can be real opinionated jerks about some things at times but these days more then a few of us are a little defensive and sensitive on these sorts of topics, especially those who are in fact currently going to sea - which no doubt about it - is the primary mission of the USMMA.

    Sixth: In closing I'd reiterate my thoughts to Crypto186 and I wish him/here good luck in their pursuit.

    That is all, carry on.
     
  20. tankercaptain

    tankercaptain Member

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    Jasperdog

    You know what they say when you assume!
    Let's begin, I believe you need to reread my post. I posted how Kings Point combines many things into what it is, I never flat out stated that it is a military academy. My point that it acts as a technical college, a normal college, a military academy (regiment and naval science) and a service academy.
    I love the shopper program, I think it is a great program and again you need to reread my post. I never said it was being shut down. I said the class of 2015 and beyond will not be able to take their QMED exam and get that endorsement. Due to changes with in the STCW, midshipman will not be able to get enough sea days to sit for their QMED. I think it is sad that they will not be able to sit for it and something should be done. Do me a favor and call Dave Palmer or Gene Albert and talk to them about it.

    Now I really hate posting this because I'm giving myself away. So here it goes, I am a dual graduate and not only do I hold my Unlimited Masters Oceans, but I hold an upper level engine license, yes upper level and it's steam, motor and gas turbine. Oh, yeah I sailed first. By the way when it comes to curriculum I used to teach in my off time at GMATS so I would talk extensively with the teaching staff.
    So to go on, there are six majors (1. marine engineering 2. marine engineering systems, 3. Shipyard Management, 4. Marine Trans 5. Shopper, 6. Logistics), but again I addressed this in my post. I said in reality there are two majors the differences between them are really minor. I addressed this in my post.

    Your comment about me talking down to people as new third mates and third engineers is an interesting one. I have been open and honest. I'm not going to urinate in a cup and call it lemonade. I gave crypto some advice. He asked how pertinent being a private pilot was with regards to KP. I said that if KP is your first choice there are other things you can do and gave suggestions.

    Finally if you want to call or email me you can send me a private message as I'm always willing to talk about Kings Point and it's future.
    By the way I'm sure I will run into you at one of the Chesapeake Chapter meetings.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2012
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