Plebe Summer - First Phone Call on Sunday July 11th

Speaking to "there are rules and there are Rules" As a parent for a Mid now 2Lt, do not play the policeman to your Mid or be the rules Kings and Queens. Your Mid has enough people in there life playing those roles and do not need mom and dad jumping on the band wagon. I admit, I was one of the "those" parents, he asked for civies for PPW - I brought them. I was not going to be the one in trouble if he was caught. It was his decision to wear or not to wear, not mine to police. Your plebes know the consequences, what is worth it and what is not.

Pep is a lot of fun to watch. Your Plebe will be paying attention to their squad leaders and participating so like AF6872 stated - they will not even know you are there.

We also watched sports practice on Thursday afternoon. Not listed as a PPW activity but we were on the yard and XC/TF Plebes were on the track so we watched. Others that I know went over to Hospital Point to watch Soccer, no one stopped them from going across the bridge.

As my son has always said "We go to college in a Zoo, we are used to being on display while taking care of business"
 
You guys crack me up! You sound like my husband and I arguing over "grey areas". Thankfully over the years he and I have rubbed off on each other. And that balance has helped us to raise some pretty AWESOME kids! I was always the hard and fast rule follower, but I must say I've learned to be more flexible over the years. (And my husband would add a big AMEN to that!) That is not to say that I think flagrant rule breaking is okay. I certainly do not, but I agree there are rules then there are RULES. If I read somewhere that parents are absolutely NOT to attend PEP, then I will abstain; otherwise, we may just be tourists that morning.
 
Do go to Pep if you can ... we did last year on Friday morning ... our son saw us and grinned from ear to ear! Later he said he didn't expect us to be there because it was so early .... I said "What? YOUR mom wouldn't be there??? are you Nuts!!" he laughed and that was worth it ...
 
This happened to a friend's son - he saw his parents on Thurdsay afternoon and flashed them a huge smile. The cadre walked over and asked what he was ginning about. The Plebe said he just saw his parents, to which the Cadre replied no you didn't your parents are DEAD!

Friday morning at PEP the Cadre walked up to the Plebe and asked if he saw anybody he knew. The Plebe replied - Sir, No, I just see dead people, Sir. The Cadre then told the entire squad to follow this Plebe so they could say hello to dead people. It was most amusing. The Cadre do have great senses of humor. They really do want you to have a good time PPW.
 
Sounds like that Plebe had a great sense of humor, too! Hahaha...I see dead people! haha

My older son was so offended during boot when one of his RDCs told them their parents were dead. My younger son (current Plebe) would probably just shout, "Sir, yes, Sir". I think having an older sibling in the military helps!
 
Somehow, I have a feeling the Naval Academy will have a way of letting everybody know when they are dead serious about PEP being "closed."

LOL. I think they did:

Also got a packet about PPW - For some reason, I was under the impression that we could attend PEP Friday morning but it states that it's not open to the public.

But I am an airline captain and I think I still understand what is truly harmful in nature and what is mostly perfunctory.
Not quite sure what this has to do with anything but it makes me glad not to know which airline it is. I find a lot of the FARs perfunctory. Does this mean that I can selectively comply with them at will?
 
We didn't go to pep on Thursday ... just Friday morning ... and our son saw us as he was running OUT of pep ... we saw a beautiful sunrise over warden field ... no detailers witnessed the smile as the plebes had to run a gauntlet of parents ... I think it gave him quite a boost...

while it is true (or at least it was) that pep isn't open to the public in general, the grounds are open for people to run on daily (at least most days) ... you have to go through the security at the main gate ... but it was soooo worth it .. .
 
Do go to Pep if you can ... we did last year on Friday morning ... our son saw us and grinned from ear to ear! Later he said he didn't expect us to be there because it was so early .... I said "What? YOUR mom wouldn't be there??? are you Nuts!!" he laughed and that was worth it ...

:thumb:
 
Since it is not open to the public, why do the detailers encourage the parents' non-compliance with the cadence "Hi Mom, Hi Dad"...and why would the administration allow it? And, you can't tell me that they let parents in the gate at the crack of dawn and don't know where they are going.

To tell you the truth, I wasn't even considering getting up that early, but the cadence thing would be a real draw for me. If they seriously don't want parents at PEP, they are going about things backwards!
 
This happened to a friend's son - he saw his parents on Thurdsay afternoon and flashed them a huge smile. The cadre walked over and asked what he was ginning about. The Plebe said he just saw his parents, to which the Cadre replied no you didn't your parents are DEAD!

Friday morning at PEP the Cadre walked up to the Plebe and asked if he saw anybody he knew. The Plebe replied - Sir, No, I just see dead people, Sir. The Cadre then told the entire squad to follow this Plebe so they could say hello to dead people. It was most amusing. The Cadre do have great senses of humor. They really do want you to have a good time PPW.

Exactly!!!!

It's sort of dark humor. Nobody actually gets into real trouble. It's a little game they play. It's more like "pretend trouble." It's an urban legend that Plebes get into HUGE trouble for making eye contact with doting parents. Those firsties were once Plebes and they understand.

Those firsties are also enjoying being at the center of attention along with the Plebes. And whose to say some of those parents at PEP are not the parents of firsties?

When the Plebes form up in T-Court at the conclusion of Plebe Parents Weekend you are going to hear Christmas music being blasted from within Bancroft Hall that will be very audible from T-Court. They'll open the windows and point speakers out onto the court. The upperclassmen are needling the Plebes, reminding many that the next time most of them will see their parents, it will be Christmas - a rather sobering realization while standing in ranks in 90-degree weather.

The firsties are pouring salt into their wounds - but with a little bit of humor. Listening to "I'll Be Home For Christmas" while sweating just doesn't seem right. :smile:

I'm not sure if they do this any more - but the night after the parents left was always the worst night of Plebe Summer. The firsties went out of their way to make it miserable. I think they called it "Hell Night." I remember being braced up against a bulkhead, wearing full rain gear, in an UN-airconditioned Bancroft Hall, while being screamed at, reciting rates, conducting uniform races, and having our rooms torn apart. We forgot about our parents pretty quickly. They put us right back into survival mode.

They were actually doing us a favor. Instead of sitting in our rooms, feeling lonely and sorry for ourselves, they distracted us. It's always best to pull a bandaid off quickly, instead of slowly - right?

Nowadays, they probably all gather in a circle, hold hands, and share their feelings with one another. :shake:

Maybe not! It sounds as if the Class of 2011 has cranked it up a notch for the Class of 2014. Good for them! I watched some of those I-Day videos. Those firsties were laying it on 'em pretty good. Maybe the tide has turned and we've started to drift away from the kinder and gentler Plebe experience.

It's not supposed to be easy. And, ironically, in the long run, the Plebes don't want it to be easy. They came there expecting a challenge and expecting it not to be easy.
 
Thanks for the lecture in leadership. But, I'm not in the military anymore. I rather consider "sea lawyer" a compliment at this point in my life.

But I am an airline captain and I think I still understand what is truly harmful in nature and what is mostly perfunctory.

From an altruistic point-of-view, I cannot argue with this extremely sanctimonious position.

Somehow, I have a feeling the Naval Academy will have a way of letting everybody know when they are dead serious about PEP being "closed."

For now, it seems to be, "No harm, no foul."

I've paid my lifetime dues to the United States Naval Academy Alumni Association - so I don't feel too intimidated or shy in being judgmental. I dare say I've been far more supportive of the Naval Academy than most over the past 31 years since I've graduated.

On a scale from 1 to 10 in importance, attending a "closed" session of PEP during Plebe Parents Weekend ranks somewhere around -3. And, as evidenced by the administration's "strict" enforcement of this back-and-forth "policy", they seem to rank it similarly.

By the way, isn't watching your son/daughter at PEP also "spirit related"? Is it not a morale boost for all involved? You seem to be acknowledging that there is some kind of "exclusionary rule" in that regard - so, maybe we're in agreement after all! :smile:

:thumb:
 
Memphis9489 said:
But I am an airline captain and I think I still understand what is truly harmful in nature and what is mostly perfunctory.

Mongo said:
Not quite sure what this has to do with anything but it makes me glad not to know which airline it is. I find a lot of the FARs perfunctory. Does this mean that I can selectively comply with them at will?

Oh, c'mon, there you go again ...

Allow me to explain how this is germane to the topic since you don't seem to understand how this "has to do with anything."

I think it is quite clear how it pertains. Some "rules" in life are perfunctory. Those rules earn that moniker because there seems to be no apparent purpose for the rule, no expressed purpose of the rule, and deliberate non-enforcement by the rule-maker. In fact, there seems to be some evidence that the agency that is making the "rule", somewhat embraces the non-compliance.

Parents are not under the jurisdiction of military rule. The fact that the Naval Academy has declared PEP not open to the public can be "duly noted." That doesn't mean the military doesn't have the right to shoo everybody away from the hallowed ground of Rip Miller Field on that one particular day at that one particular time, however. Yet, they choose not to. That doesn't mean that may not change at some point in the future. And, when that happens, the parents that got shoo'd away can educate others that the Naval Academy really means it when they say it is not open to the public.

Right now, we're telling the new parents that there are strong indicators that the Naval Academy doesn't mean it. Ergo - perfunctory.

The Yard is strewn with "NO VISITORS beyond this point" signs. And there are times when the gates are closed to all visitors. But not on this day ... not at this time ... and not at the PEP-field.

sign1.jpg


sign2.jpg


Airline pilots are subject to the FARs (Federal Aviation Regulations) just as military personnel are subject to the UCMJ. And yet, there are still rules and there are RULES.

Offhand, I cannot think of any perfunctory FARs. I don't know of any that the FAA announces, yet does not enforce even when they observe the non-compliance -further- embraces the non-compliance with an obvious turn-of-the-cheek. If there was such an FAR then, yes, I would call it perfunctory.

Many company policies are perfunctory, however.

I'm beginning to wonder how the U.S. Navy ever trusted me to fly jets on and off their carriers and certify me to carry nuclear weapons. I had no idea I was such a bad, undisciplined, renegade individual.

Man, I need to reevaluate my life. Thanks for the enlightenment. :smile:
 
Last edited:
Actually I would feel very safe on an airliner with Memphis! :smile:[

As a retired Airline Type my advise is to have him send you a copy of his last check ride first::biggrin:
 
Offhand, I cannot think of any perfunctory FARs. I don't know of any that the FAA announces, yet does not enforce even when they observe the non-compliance -further- embraces the non-compliance with an obvious turn-of-the-cheek. If there was such an FAR then, yes, I would call it perfunctory.

I guess we just have a different definition of 'perfunctory'. You have added 'needless' to my definition of 'routine and rote'. I always thought 'perfunctory' described more an attitude than a ruling on the necessity of the action. Under my definition, one could paraphase the old saying that flight is 99% perfunctory and 1% pure terror. We will just have to wait for some of the language experts to chime in with their interpretation.

We are going to have to agree to disagree on the concept of whether 'rules' are 'rules', or not. And of course you have taken the position of what parents want to hear, not what is actually proper.
 
Maybe not! It sounds as if the Class of 2011 has cranked it up a notch for the Class of 2014. Good for them! I watched some of those I-Day videos. Those firsties were laying it on 'em pretty good. Maybe the tide has turned and we've started to drift away from the kinder and gentler Plebe experience.

Let's hope so, Memphis! As hard as it is to hear my son say he feels like a lower life form and that he can't do anything right, I also have to remember that he is now a member of the military. I certainly don't want him preparing for war at a quilting bee!!
 
We are going to have to agree to disagree on the concept of whether 'rules' are 'rules', or not.

The USNA IG's report detailing a two-tiered honor system doesn't seem to indicate that the Supe practiced what you preached.

Obviously, he followed the rules he wanted to follow, and ignored ones he didn't, especially when it came to all of the "inconsistencies with his application of the honor system."

Why do you excuse Jeff Fowler's disregard for honor while castigating the parents?

Is that your two-tiered system of rules adherence?
 
The USNA IG's report detailing a two-tiered honor system doesn't seem to indicate that the Supe practiced what you preached.

Obviously, he followed the rules he wanted to follow, and ignored ones he didn't, especially when it came to all of the "inconsistencies with his application of the honor system."

Why do you excuse Jeff Fowler's disregard for honor while castigating the parents?

Is that your two-tiered system of rules adherence?

Dude, seriously?
 
The USNA IG's report detailing a two-tiered honor system doesn't seem to indicate that the Supe practiced what you preached.

Obviously, he followed the rules he wanted to follow, and ignored ones he didn't, especially when it came to all of the "inconsistencies with his application of the honor system."

Why do you excuse Jeff Fowler's disregard for honor while castigating the parents?

Is that your two-tiered system of rules adherence?

YEAH, and 7.6 yards per carry too!:biglaugh:
 
Back
Top