And concur that a Plebe currently in Plebe Summer doesn't have any exposure then maybe seeing a kid get walked around to get checked out of Tango Company. As this thread shows, rumors like this are pretty great and wide. Bottom line is... Some always leave I Day, happens every year. Usually it's between a couple to maybe 2 handfuls. Kids leave during Plebe Summer. It's sad, but some regret it and others don't. Tango company is who handles those who leave. Plebes are required to stay 2 weeks except for extreme situations. Attrition as a whole has dropped over the years. Those are really the bottom line items.
Plebe summer numbers?
- Thread starter nodiva
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I don't think the other Plebes interact at all with those in Tango Company, but I think they may see them on the bleachers during practice parades. Elaine Brye warned parents on the Facebook page not to take and post pictures of the students on the bleachers. She said some of them were on the bleachers due to injuries, but some of them were Plebes who were in Tango Company.
Navy92
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Absolutely they don't interact. As NavyHoops said, unless something has changed, they are kept far away from the rest of the plebes. When I was there long ago, once a plebe was sent to Tango, it was like a black hole and you never saw them again. In fact, there was a kid from my company that was there one day, and then it seemed he just disappeared. Nobody really knew what happened - even his roomies! He was just gone. But what it always seemed to me was that most of the kids who dropped were there not for their own reasons, IOW they are there for their parents. It is critical in my opinion that any 2020 hopefuls be all in - on their own! I have tried my best to stand away from the process of my DS since I was class of '92. I want my DS to want it on his own, not because "Dad went and really wants him to go." Don't get me wrong, I am supportive and very VERY proud! But I am also very cautious not to push at all. Anyway, my two cents worth...
LongAgoPlebe
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^^ Yep, this. I would have been class of '93, so the SOP would have been very similar. More to the point, below is a link to the two-year-old Plebe Summer SOP describing the procedures and POD for PS Tango Company. It starts on page 88 of the PDF, or section 12-1. Tango plebes are billeted in a separate wing of Bancroft, & eat and work out at different times than PS companies-in-training.
As I said, I know my company received a kid who initially tangoed, then changed his mind, and was placed in our company after he reconsidered. HE told our squad that, though, not the detailers. Also, importantly, there are other reasons a plebe can disappear from a company and reappear in another. There's a thread over in the USAFA forum that reminds me of a couple of plebes I recall being reassigned for, essentially, failure to respond well to detailer "style." I have no idea the frequency of this, but since a major purpose of PS is to build teams with substantial relationships, I'm guessing it's rare.
http://www.usna.edu/Commandant/Dire...LEBE_SUMMER_STANDARD_OPERATING_PROCEDURES.pdf
As I said, I know my company received a kid who initially tangoed, then changed his mind, and was placed in our company after he reconsidered. HE told our squad that, though, not the detailers. Also, importantly, there are other reasons a plebe can disappear from a company and reappear in another. There's a thread over in the USAFA forum that reminds me of a couple of plebes I recall being reassigned for, essentially, failure to respond well to detailer "style." I have no idea the frequency of this, but since a major purpose of PS is to build teams with substantial relationships, I'm guessing it's rare.
http://www.usna.edu/Commandant/Dire...LEBE_SUMMER_STANDARD_OPERATING_PROCEDURES.pdf
TSC Navy Nana
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The graduation rate of those who attend NAPS is actually not bad at all. Three weeks ago, the NAPS commander showed slides at NAPS I-day that said the Napster retention rate from 2006-2015 was 83%. The graduation rate from USNA from 2006-2015 for Napsters was 79% as compared to 87% for direct entry. But, the post USNA retention 10 years after graduation is much closer. There the Napsters are 47% and the directs are 49%. In addition, the Napster retention rate in 2015 was 87% - the highest it had been in years (it has mostly been on the rise with a few small blips.)
That is good to hear. The decade previously had been much lower... 60-70% graduation rate. On my phone and posting links is more than I have patience for, but will try to remember tomorrow. So 79% rate is much better, glad to see it. Overall retention at USNA is higher than it has been so that correlation makes sense that NAPS would increase too.
We found out the number of plebes who decided USNA was not for them, was 13 this year. No girls quit this plebe summer, either.
The MIDS system says that 21 plebes are no longer in the brigade. This does not necessarily mean the poster above is incorrect as every year a number of people don't actually show up for I day. 2018 actually had the lowest PS attrition, we only had 8 leave
Kanye's Dad's Sock Puppet
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Not sure how USNA counts those in Tango when they come up with the PPW presentation but I suspect they do not count those still in Tango and not yet departed.
So how do you handle a plebe that went there all on his own and still wants to quit. It was his and only his dream. I don't know the right words to tell mine that he should stay. I am so lost right now and feel completely helpless. I wish they didn't let them quit. They should tell them to suck it up through the summer.
So since my son called me on day 6, do you think something is not right?
I think your DS has expressed he wants to leave and his Detailers and company staff thought a call home might help. Hang in there, he is in good hands and being watched, mentored and encouraged. If something is really wrong he would be removed from his company. So if he isn't at that point he is expressing some self doubt and having a hard time adjusting. It happens, USNA deals with this every year. They want him to succeed and are making sure its just not a Plebe struggling with adjusting or is truely a bad fit.
NavyHoops probably has described the process as well as it can be defined. It's a big black hole and I am certainly not one to give advice on how to deal with someone else's emotions/stress, but I did have classmates that didn't like USAFA and left and they did just fine in life. I also had classmates and underclassmen that hated it and were told by their parents not to come home which added to their misery.
I would suggest that you call the USNA Chaplains Services. I would bet that someone there can help you understand the process and what your son is going through and perhaps provide you advice/comfort on how to approach your son. I am not advocating religion, but the Chaplains are also professional counselors, they know what's going on, they are close to it, they know how to make the 'system' work, and they are more likely than not given a pretty broad latitude in dealing with these types of issues.
The Plebes are 18-21(?) and the USN considers them adults, but they also realize they are not experienced adults and the Plebes have had for the most part, the most interesting week of their young lives. As a general rule, I believe in the inherent goodness of the folks at USNA and they are working with your son to do what is best for everyone.
I would suggest that you call the USNA Chaplains Services. I would bet that someone there can help you understand the process and what your son is going through and perhaps provide you advice/comfort on how to approach your son. I am not advocating religion, but the Chaplains are also professional counselors, they know what's going on, they are close to it, they know how to make the 'system' work, and they are more likely than not given a pretty broad latitude in dealing with these types of issues.
The Plebes are 18-21(?) and the USN considers them adults, but they also realize they are not experienced adults and the Plebes have had for the most part, the most interesting week of their young lives. As a general rule, I believe in the inherent goodness of the folks at USNA and they are working with your son to do what is best for everyone.
usna1985
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Typically, they "force" a plebe to wait about three weeks to out-process. That hopefully gives the plebe and USNA sufficient time to ensure it's a well-thought out decision, not a knee-jerk reaction to the sudden shock of being in the military, etc.
There are three main reasons why kids (and, let's remember, in some ways they're adults and in others still kids) want to quit early in PS. First -- it wasn't their dream in the first place. They went b/c mom, dad, teacher, friend, whomever encouraged them to go and now that they "went," they're ready to get outta there. Second, the initial shock overwhelms them and they can't get past it. There is/was a poster on this board who quit early in PS and later realized it probably wasn't the best move even though it seemed so at the time. USNA tries to get those folks to stay and give the school/system a broader, longer chance. Third are those who thought they were suited to military life and realize right away they're not. And never will be. For those folks, quitting early is probably best b/c it's never going to work out.
The problem is that it can be tough at age 17/18 to differentiate b/t groups 2 and 3. That's why USNA uses professionals -- officers, Chaplains (who are officers), chain of command, etc. to try to sort it out and help the plebe do what's best for him/her.
I'm sure it's really hard to face as a parent far away. Understand that USNA sees this every single year so they are very experienced in handling it. For your part, try to be supportive ("I know you're going through some tough moments but hope you're having some good times as well") but resist being empathetic (i.e., "yes, I'm sure every moment is miserable, even more miserable than you're telling me").
Agree with the rec above to talk to the Chaplains -- as correctly stated, there is no need to be religious to avail yourself of their help/services and they are uniformly terrific.
There are three main reasons why kids (and, let's remember, in some ways they're adults and in others still kids) want to quit early in PS. First -- it wasn't their dream in the first place. They went b/c mom, dad, teacher, friend, whomever encouraged them to go and now that they "went," they're ready to get outta there. Second, the initial shock overwhelms them and they can't get past it. There is/was a poster on this board who quit early in PS and later realized it probably wasn't the best move even though it seemed so at the time. USNA tries to get those folks to stay and give the school/system a broader, longer chance. Third are those who thought they were suited to military life and realize right away they're not. And never will be. For those folks, quitting early is probably best b/c it's never going to work out.
The problem is that it can be tough at age 17/18 to differentiate b/t groups 2 and 3. That's why USNA uses professionals -- officers, Chaplains (who are officers), chain of command, etc. to try to sort it out and help the plebe do what's best for him/her.
I'm sure it's really hard to face as a parent far away. Understand that USNA sees this every single year so they are very experienced in handling it. For your part, try to be supportive ("I know you're going through some tough moments but hope you're having some good times as well") but resist being empathetic (i.e., "yes, I'm sure every moment is miserable, even more miserable than you're telling me").
Agree with the rec above to talk to the Chaplains -- as correctly stated, there is no need to be religious to avail yourself of their help/services and they are uniformly terrific.
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There are some parallel thoughts - excellent ones - here and in another current thread:
http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/index.php?threads/First-phone-call-home.50100/
Because chaplains have come up so often, I wanted to post a link and some comments about "the Chaps."
https://www.navy.com/careers/chaplain-support/chaplain.html#ft-key-responsibilities
The Service Academy chaplains are carefully vetted and experienced in young service member counseling. They are confidential resources, there to serve the mids, staff and anyone who needs them. They are bound by confidentiality, and may only break it in the case of threat of self-harm or harm to others. They are not there to convert or influence anyone. They are officers and often serve full careers. They deploy on carriers. Some are SA grads themselves. One of my DH's USNA classmates went Marine Corps, then got out and used his GI Bill for Divinity School, returning to active service and a full career as a Navy chaplain. My experiences with them throughout my career and when I was a USNA BattO were uniformly good to amazing. All I had to say was "I'm a little worried about Midn Finarkle, there's something going on there." I didn't expect or require - nor could I - a report back, but I swear they have Chaps Magic.
Each USNA Battalion has a chaplain assigned. They visit the Hall at night, show up at intramurals, can be seen working out at PEP during PS, are present, caring and available. They are particularly good at coaching mids about how to have difficult conversation with parents.
http://www.usna.edu/Chapel/ContactChaps.php
If you call them, they can share general info about their role and how "the system" works for mids thinking about leaving. They cannot share specifics about individual mids due to Privacy Act (unless mid authorizes) or in cases involving legal issues with command involvement.
http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/index.php?threads/First-phone-call-home.50100/
Because chaplains have come up so often, I wanted to post a link and some comments about "the Chaps."
https://www.navy.com/careers/chaplain-support/chaplain.html#ft-key-responsibilities
The Service Academy chaplains are carefully vetted and experienced in young service member counseling. They are confidential resources, there to serve the mids, staff and anyone who needs them. They are bound by confidentiality, and may only break it in the case of threat of self-harm or harm to others. They are not there to convert or influence anyone. They are officers and often serve full careers. They deploy on carriers. Some are SA grads themselves. One of my DH's USNA classmates went Marine Corps, then got out and used his GI Bill for Divinity School, returning to active service and a full career as a Navy chaplain. My experiences with them throughout my career and when I was a USNA BattO were uniformly good to amazing. All I had to say was "I'm a little worried about Midn Finarkle, there's something going on there." I didn't expect or require - nor could I - a report back, but I swear they have Chaps Magic.
Each USNA Battalion has a chaplain assigned. They visit the Hall at night, show up at intramurals, can be seen working out at PEP during PS, are present, caring and available. They are particularly good at coaching mids about how to have difficult conversation with parents.
http://www.usna.edu/Chapel/ContactChaps.php
If you call them, they can share general info about their role and how "the system" works for mids thinking about leaving. They cannot share specifics about individual mids due to Privacy Act (unless mid authorizes) or in cases involving legal issues with command involvement.
Navy92
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I am sad to hear this, but please take note of what these posters are saying. USNA is going to take care of your son and guide him. Hopefully you can help in that process. It's ultimately up to your DS to make the decision. The chaplains are a huge resource, use them! Good luck!!!