Plebe summer weapons training

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by navyorairforce19, Jun 1, 2011.

  1. navyorairforce19

    navyorairforce19 Prospective Cadet/Mdshpmn

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    At plebe summer do midshipmen become acquainted with just the m16 and m9 berreta, or do they shoot other guns? Also what guns are used during marches and practice formations?
     
  2. AF6872

    AF6872 Member

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    This is your rifle, this is your gun. Learn the nomenclature. Qualification is with the M16 (I think) and Beretta Pistol. M14 for Parade. You will only live fire maybe once.
     
  3. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    Often, though not required, Mids have opportunity to become familiar with other firearms as part of Protramid and/or other summer exposures. Still, I'm told one must be "pretty poor" or at least pretty new to firearms to fail in obtaining an "E" for their ribbons. Or maybe just city-slicker Mids who've never ett much squirrel stew or boiled bunny ... :eek:

    Man, my mouth's waterin' ...:wink::tank::rocket::guns6::beer1:
     
  4. subvet

    subvet Member

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    "This is your rifle, this is your gun."
    Decided not to give them the full verse did you?? :)
     
  5. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    Preach it Joe!:rolleyes::tongue:
     
  6. 2013MidDad

    2013MidDad Member

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    In my opinion, it seems that I notice a surprisingly high number of Mids without one or two Es.
     
  7. usnabgo08

    usnabgo08 USNA 2008/BGO

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    2013MidDad, you are absolutely right. WP either made an incorrect generalization or maybe meant to just earn the ribbon without any other devices on it.
     
  8. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    No, I meant what I opined, i.e. "E" in marksmanship is not a major achievement nor particularly challenging ...for anyone basically competent with firearms. I'm sure there are many absent 2 "E's". There are many, MANY Mids who have zero competency in this area and thus the issue. But I stand by what many Mids have shared. Not terribly tough in either rifle or pistol. Unless ... (see earlier comment).

    Not meaning to applaud nor offend any. It is what it is. But even those w/ 2 "E's" ain't close to being considered for sniper duty. Let's just say, the firearms exposure is minimal, brief, and cursory, and even with that, in today's world, most Mids are total novices at this.
     
  9. AF6872

    AF6872 Member

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    Full Verse is not PC. But I got the full treatmeant and learned it well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2011
  10. Mongo

    Mongo Banned

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    Concur. The ribbon is easy. The medal is difficult. Actually, those who have never picked up a firearm before seem to do as well or better than the 'squirrel hunters'. No bad habits to unlearn. Kind of like previous flying and flight school.

    Just went through my yearbook and looked at graduation pictures w/ medals. Maybe 15% of my class had a single medal and 5% had both. Of course, it was in the day of the M-1 and .45 Auto but probably nothing much has changed.
     
  11. Malachy Marine

    Malachy Marine Member

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    Not much has changed... except almost everything. I'm in agreement with Whistle Pig on this one. Exposure is limited, but it is not terribly difficult to achieve double 'E.'

    At least at USNA its nothing like a traditional course of fire, except maybe in name only. Well for rifle anyways...

    Its a 'simulated 300 yard distance' for the M16. Meaning you fire at a target that has a bulls-eye slightly larger than a silver dollar positioned 50 feet away. No requirement to compensate for windage or distance. Or even bother touching the sights, other than the initial zero...

    Pistol is more challenging. But you only shoot out to 15 yds on a man-sized target. If you keep your early shots tight in the black (from 3, 5, and 7 yards), its not a big deal if you drop a few at the 15.
     
  12. usnabgo08

    usnabgo08 USNA 2008/BGO

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    As the Admin Officer for Plebe Summer Weapons Detail, about 45-50% of the platoons did not qualify Expert in the pistol or rifle (or both). About 7-8 qualified Expert in both, another 12 or so shot Expert in either pistol or rifle. Another 1-2 didn't qualify after additional rounds.

    By statistics, only 19% achieve double Expert, 30% achieve Expert in one or the other, and the remainder are predominantly sharpsooter or just qualified.

    I'll let the stats speak for themselves; I'm sure the trend analysis hasn't drastically changed. This supports 2013MidDad's observation.
     
  13. Whistle Pig

    Whistle Pig Banned

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    Yes, i.e. that few Mids were the "E" on 2 ribbons. But not a clue as to why. It is obviously challenging for the, dare I say, target audience. While pure speculation, I'd suspect the entry-level skill level of Mids firing arms has dramatically changed over time, as society has morphed from hunting and gun-shooting households to not. A question that must remain opinion and unknown. Still, the results suggest that perhaps there should be a "4 Q" status, requiring validation of one-shot kills on squirrels, coons, rats, and woodchucks.:eek: Scratch the last critter.
     
  14. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    M9 Pistol
    180-203 Marksman
    204-227 Sharpshooter
    228-240 Expert

    M16 or M4 Rifle
    140-159 Marksman
    160-169 Sharpshooter
    170-200 Expert
     

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