Pledge of Allegiance Banned...

SteveHolt243 said:
I was commenting on the earlier thread comments that we should mandate everyone say the pledge, not the school's actions. Which if you read any of my posts, you would probably understand I am opposed to. The school shouldn't restrict voluntary recitation. That being said, with "3 seconds' research," the story doesn't seem to be that the school prevented Harrington from saying the pledge, but rather that they chose not to have "voluntary" participation during loudspeaker broadcast Pledges during class time. So tell the teen to get there five minutes early or during a break and express patriotism to his heart's content.
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OK, I see...maybe if you read the article, you would know what the discussion is in the first place. Lets make a pact Steve, I promise to read your posts clearly (as usual) and you promise to at least read the article linked :biggrin: I doubt the article could be any clearer:

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"The Arlington, Mass., school committee has rejected the 17-year-old's request to allow students to voluntarily recite the Pledge of Allegiance, because some educators are concerned that it would be hard to find teachers willing to recite it, according to a report in the Arlington Patch. "

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Or, is Line in the Sand on to something here....
 
SteveHolt243 said:
These are jokes right? Or did freedom of expression cease to be a hallmark of American values? Is it suddenly freedom of expression as long as you love everything about America and never saying anything bad? You've got to be kidding me.
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One last thing before I'm out. Do you want to keep all of the rights and privileges of being a citizen, having your free speech and all, and in the next sentence, condemn America and refuse to promise her your allegiance? Not saying that you do condemn or hate her, or that you do refuse to pledge your allegiance, but is that how it is?
 
Maximus - sometimes in internet threads, we stray from the original topic. Two posters commented that we should mandate the Pledge to alternately all citizens and all residents. So try and keep up when I specifically respond to them.

You and LITS and OC Josh and whatnot:

I read the Fox News article, and as usual, smelled the stench of manufactured outrage. So I also read the school's response and local news. And frankly the story didn't sound like an outright ban on saying the Pledge of Allegiance. At no point does it seem Harrington started saying the Pledge on his free time in the halls and the school told him to stop doing that.

What does seem to have happened is the teen was outraged that there was no pledge over the loudspeaker like he had seen in elementary and middle school, and he tried to get the school to read the pledge in class with voluntary participation. The school declining to do that is hardly a ban on free speech. In fact, in the next school year, the principal will be leading the Pledge in the morning five minutes before class. This was not good enough for Harrington who said he'll keep fighting it. This last, fact, especially, is what leads me to question whether the issue was ever one of the freedom to say the Pledge at all.

FlyBoy:

Those are inherent rights of human beings. Free speech is not a right only of American Citizens. You still have that right if you live in Iran, the difference merely being that the right is protected in America. This is the single greatest thing about America - the protection of inherent rights. Therefore I do not think it is material whether someone loves or hates America or whether they are willing to pledge Allegiance. They can stand on a street corner and hand out pamphlets explaining why, specifically, they dislike America. I, incidentally, have the same freedom to explain to them why I think they are morons.
 
Steve, and if you use one of your inherent rights, like, say, speech, to attempt to abrigde one of theirs, say like, right to bear and keep arms...how about that?
 
What I mean to say, do you condone someone using one of their rights, say, the free speach, to attempt to take away someone elses, all while claiming a person is just exercising their freedom of speach.
 
Actually, that's not hard to follow.

You use freedom of speech to argue why assault guns should be banned. Didn't Chicago just try to ban guns?

You can use freedom of speech to argue why we should or should not have the Fair Use Act, that allows the govt to decide the press...(mainly talk radio)...which in essence denies the media freedom of speech.

The AD military defends all of our freedoms, but because they are military they lose some of these inherent rights. They do not have freedom of speech that the avg citizen takes for granted while they are in uniform. If they live on base/post, they also have a quasi right to bear arms. They can own them, but they are not allowed to keep them in their base house.
 
Somehow read it a bit different.

Yes I condone speech that argues against other rights.
 
Eh, it may be too confusing for me to explain.

It's not directly related to the Pledge issue here; more of a general question.
 
Steve,

I may not agree with some of your postings (i.e. you throw the terms, moronic, idiotic, etc around too often), however, I do respect your position to the hilt. You have taken your oath of office and are fulfilling it to the highest honor by stating this is why I am defending our country. I personally think everyone is on the same page from a military standpoint. HOWEVER, people do have personal opinions that can be contradictory at times with what they are defending.

It is hard to watch an American flag burn by protesters when you have watched it handed over to a widow with toddlers on behalf of a grateful nation. Sorry, but the first time you stand at the grave site watching a pre-schooler play with the dirt because they don't get what is going on, and then you see that mid west group protesting outside a funeral on tv that night, if you don't spit nails, I don't know what to say to you.
~~~~As a military member you uphold that right to burn the flag

It is hard to accept that people do not want to recite the pledge, but live in the best country in the world, while your arse is in Iraq taking showers with baby wipes. When you finally do come home, for many they come to the realization we should all get down on our knees and thank the Lord our International area code is 001 and not 011964 (Iraq)
~~~~ As a military member you uphold the right not to pledge

It is hard to watch your vote not be counted for an election because it showed up a day late due to the operational difficulties of getting it mailed.
Can we all say 2000?
~~~~As a military member you uphold whoever takes the oath as President regardless if the courts did not count you.


It reminds me of my BIL, our DS1 was 3 and my in-laws for Xmas gave him a toy gun. My BIL took it away from my 3 yr old, criticized my inlaws for giving it and left my child in tears (It was to him a violent present, even though it shot nothing just lit up and made noises). My FIL asked a simple question to my BIL, we gave you toy guns to play with when you were that age, should we be worried about you becoming a killer?

Every educator said the pledge and it was no sweat off their backs! They are concerned with the words under God! They are using the pledge to circumvent the issue of religion that has become an issue. This is all about being PC IMHO. Removing the pledge removes them from the "God" issue at school.

Perspective needs to be placed into the situation.
 
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I am not familiar with all the website jargon but if you mean by BIL "brother in law" I would have taken it back and rammed it right up his, well this is family viewing. My kid, My choice. Where was Bullet? I did a lot of funerals as detail and you are right. It is hard to watch a flag burning on TV after you have seen a full honors and presentation. I have never seen a flag burning in person and if I do you will see me on TV. I am old enough not to care about the assault charge. Paraphrasing General Schwarzkopf when asked if anyone had spit on him when he returned from Vietnam? Not anyone that is still alive.
 
My former Junior High English/Latin teacher making his statement on the steps of City Hall in New York and publicly burning his draft card. As he was a former editor and contributor to the "Catholic Worker" who can be surprised. He is on the far left. I think PTO meetings were a lot of fun in those days. I didn't get to go but I know he used to rail against having police in uniform at any public meeting. It was a really wierd time but some of us survived.

http://www.ajmuste.org/images/WIN-CNVA-UnionSquare-demo.jpg
 
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SteveHolt243 said:
Maximus - sometimes in internet threads, we stray from the original topic. Two posters commented that we should mandate the Pledge to alternately all citizens and all residents. So try and keep up when I specifically respond to them.

You and LITS and OC Josh and whatnot:

I read the Fox News article, and as usual, smelled the stench of manufactured outrage. So I also read the school's response and local news. And frankly the story didn't sound like an outright ban on saying the Pledge of Allegiance. At no point does it seem Harrington started saying the Pledge on his free time in the halls and the school told him to stop doing that.

What does seem to have happened is the teen was outraged that there was no pledge over the loudspeaker like he had seen in elementary and middle school, and he tried to get the school to read the pledge in class with voluntary participation. The school declining to do that is hardly a ban on free speech. In fact, in the next school year, the principal will be leading the Pledge in the morning five minutes before class. This was not good enough for Harrington who said he'll keep fighting it. This last, fact, especially, is what leads me to question whether the issue was ever one of the freedom to say the Pledge at all.

FlyBoy:

Those are inherent rights of human beings. Free speech is not a right only of American Citizens. You still have that right if you live in Iran, the difference merely being that the right is protected in America. This is the single greatest thing about America - the protection of inherent rights. Therefore I do not think it is material whether someone loves or hates America or whether they are willing to pledge Allegiance. They can stand on a street corner and hand out pamphlets explaining why, specifically, they dislike America. I, incidentally, have the same freedom to explain to them why I think they are morons.
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At this point Steve, I don't care. I think we know each others political position and your trying to passively/aggressively disdain me personally, is a waste of your time, and the boards time.
Lets just agree to disagree :thumb:
 
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