Political leanings at USMA- Conserservative? Liberal? Mix?

Have him apply to SLE and see if USMA is for him. I'm sure he can get into any place he applies with those kind of scores in ninth grade.! What you don't want to do is attend a military academy just because it's "free"
 
My son disagreed. He believes that Kaepernick is being a good American because he bravely participated in the fundamental right of American citizens to peacefully demonstrate. My son believes that when someone sees a way in which America needs to improve (such as racial inequality), then that person has an obligation as an American citizen to bring attention to the area that needs improvement like Kaepernick did with his anthem protest.

In my son's opinion, *that's* what makes a great American-- someone who is brave enough to fight to make necessary changes, *not* someone who reflexively says this country is great and that anyone who suggests a need for improvement is anti-American.

Anyway, my son is pro-science, pro-choice, pro-marriage equality, pro-gun control, and generally aligns himself with progressive liberal ideals. He is also pro-military, but here is the south, the only people that seem to be pro-military are conservatives with the opposite views as my son.


Times like this I wish we had a dislike button.
 
Political commentary by military officers and the subsequent consequences are as old as the republic. You only get two votes as a military officer, one when you raise your right hand and the other when you choose to separate or retire....

"The southern brigade commander was Robert A. Toombs, who enjoyed here his finest hour as a soldier. Disappointed by his failure to become president of the Confederacy, bored by his job as secretary of state, Toombs had taken a brigadier’s commission to seek the fame and glory to which he felt destined. Reprimanded more than once by superiors for inefficiency and insubordination, Toombs spent many of his leisure hours denouncing Jefferson Davis and the “West Point clique” who were ruining army and country. For his achievement in holding Burnside’s whole corps for several hours at Antietam—and being wounded in the process—Toombs expected promotion, but did not get it and subsequently resigned to go public with his anti-administration exhortations."
 
Political commentary by military officers and the subsequent consequences are as old as the republic. You only get two votes as a military officer, one when you raise your right hand and the other when you choose to separate or retire....

Also, you can vote every other time.... Which tend to matter more.
 
Some folks on this thread may be simplifying or muddling concepts, IMHO.

"Conservative" or "Liberal" are two words, each interchangeable with the other, depending upon one's time in history. These two words have become meaningless; they each have a zillion degrees of meaning; they are defined and used as 'Tools' by the particular political class holding power.

Perhaps the Question posed by the OP should be:

Is the USMA operating under "The Rule of Law" or "The Rule of Men"?

The obvious answer is that the USMA operates under "The Rule of Law" or "the United States Constitution".

However, what about the Political Class who give the West Point Graduate the orders?

IMHO, they plainly live and operate under "The Rules of Men” i.e. they run the Republic as a Kleptocracy

If our country continues to MOVE Away from operating under "The Rule of Law", we will witness the death of this Republic.

How do *I know*? I only need one example:

When a former Executive Branch Official (SoS) can *willfully alter/destroy electronic communications* listed under Subpoena from another Executive Branch (DOJ ) without ANY consequence and yet, if a regular Citizen did the same, the Citizen would be imprisoned for 5 years, it is clear; we are living in a Kleptocracy.
 
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Hello Texana:

I read your original post yesterday and decided to mull your words overnight before writing a response. Like you, I am new to this forum and have a DS who is seriously considering service via an academy or ROTC. Also like you and your son, we live in (conservative, bible-belt, small-town) Texas. That however, may very well be where our similarities end.

My son and I are those conservative neighbors to whom you ascribe, or at minimum insinuate, a certain incapability to empathize with people who hold ideals that differ from our own. I can assure you that is not the case. Your statement your that your son, "is very turned off by reflexive patriotism..." was particularly distasteful, given your example of what constitutes reflexive patriotism.

Your example of Colin Kaepernick's peaceful protest is a bit hypocritical. You present the example in a way which presumes that anyone who disagrees with your son's view, does so because of a shallow, distorted understanding of the underlying issues. The hypocrisy is rooted in your assumption that any disagreement comes from a place of ignorance and is merely a knee-jerk reaction. Again, I can assure you that is not the case. My son and I have discussed this story, and he does disagree with Colin's behavior. My son believes Colin has the right to kneel during the National Anthem; however, just because you can...doesn't mean you should. DS sees this protest as somewhat self-serving, given Kaepernick's position with the team and the way it subsequently raised his national profile. DS also sees it as counterproductive, in view of the negative reaction from the general public and the law enforcement community, to whom it was directed.

I do not raise these arguments to re-litigate whether Kaepernick is patriotic, anti-American, or somewhere in between; but to disabuse your son of the notion that one side or the other has absolute moral or intellectual high ground. More importantly, you and your son should understand that the individuals who are appointed to any of the academies will be the best of America, all outstanding individuals. They will be intellectually curious, open to new ideas, and very diverse in a multitude of ways. Your son should be ready to be challenged on his beliefs, when he presents them, and it will not be a reflexive, ill-conceived argument from the other side.

One last thought about the Service Academies and how they compare with an Ivy League education. I do believe that the academies will lean more conservative than the Ivies. Ivy schools have always proudly proclaimed that they are a place where students learn critical thinking and diversity of thought. That said, it has become common practice at these colleges for students and even faculty to protest speakers with whom they disagree. Often those protests result in the cancellation of these engagements. Now that certainly can't promote diversity of thought. Can anyone on this forum imagine academy cadets doing anything other than politely and conscientiously listening to a speaker with whom they disagreed. I can't.

Texana, I know it was not your intention to entice an argument with your post. In fact, based on some of the answers you received, many readers found nothing about your post objectionable. For me, there was a subtle arrogance in it that just struck a chord and required a response. As stated above, I believe that you underestimate the caliber of the cadets with which your son will matriculate. I believe that you will find this community extremely helpful in your son's quest to become a "leader of character" from the USMA. Based on your description of him, it appears that he will make a fine candidate and exceptional cadet. I wish you and him the best of luck.

JDB
 
Hello, I'm new here.
I'm sorry this is long, but I don't know where to get this information, and I'm really hoping someone here has information for me!!

* BACKGROUND--
My son is a high school sophomore and is seriously considering applying to USMA. We've read through the requirements, read a lot of websites (official and unofficial) and watched a lot of youtube videos, and I think we have a general idea of how it all works.

I think my son has a good chance of admission-- he's strong and athletic, is outgoing and charismatic with many leadership experiences, and is very intelligent (last year, in 9th grade, he scored a 32 on the ACT with near perfect math and science subscores).

My son loves his country and thinks he would make a good soldier and military leader. He knows he's smart and feels that it is his duty to use his intelligence to make his country (and the world in general) a better and safer place rather than just use his intelligence to make money in the corporate world. He loves creative problem solving and strategy and sees himself in a future career working in military intelligence or for the CIA, FBI, etc.

But, in seriously considering West Point, he and I were wondering-- What is the political climate of the service academies?

My son is scientifically minded, atheist, progressive, and liberal. He is very turned off by reflexive patriotism and nationalism.

Here's an example to explain what I mean--

With the recent Kaepernick media coverage, my son sided with those who supported Kaepernick. Conservatives tend to say that Kaepernick was anti-American and that by not standing for the national anthem he was disrespecting the soldiers who died to protect our country.

My son disagreed. He believes that Kaepernick is being a good American because he bravely participated in the fundamental right of American citizens to peacefully demonstrate. My son believes that when someone sees a way in which America needs to improve (such as racial inequality), then that person has an obligation as an American citizen to bring attention to the area that needs improvement like Kaepernick did with his anthem protest.

In my son's opinion, *that's* what makes a great American-- someone who is brave enough to fight to make necessary changes, *not* someone who reflexively says this country is great and that anyone who suggests a need for improvement is anti-American.

Anyway, my son is pro-science, pro-choice, pro-marriage equality, pro-gun control, and generally aligns himself with progressive liberal ideals. He is also pro-military, but here is the south, the only people that seem to be pro-military are conservatives with the opposite views as my son.

So, would my son, as a liberal/progressive, intellectual/scientist type, have a place as USMA? Are West Point cadets/faculty mostly conservative or is it a mix?

I appreciate any advice you might have!
 
Texana: I am too a new member here. Most can probably figure out why I called myself Arpil75. My DD has just received her LOA from the USNA class of 21. I found myself compelled to say something on your post. So take it for whatever it is worth... It was long ago that Red White and Blue came to my old nation to defend, fight, and die with us again a communist force, and it doesn't matter now if you agreed or not with the conflict. It was Red White and Blue that brought the 58,193 bodies home. It was Red White and Blue that picked up refugees floating endlessly in the Pacific. It was Red White and Blue and brought some of us here. It was Red White and Blue that gave my DD the reasons to serve. I just found "reflexive patriotism" to be a bit disturbing, but that's just the way I feel as a war refugee. Off my box now.
 
Great replies! I appreciate everyone taking the time to share their thoughts with me. The variety of responses pretty much gave me the answer I needed. If the posters here reflect a cross-section of the USMA population, then it seems to have a definite lean to the right but not decisively so.

From what I read in one person's post, I was led to take a closer look at the USMA clubs and found there is a "Secular Student Alliance" that "welcomes freethinkers" and "espouses the ideals of scientific rationality and secularism". That's encouraging! I might have my son email the officer in charge to get some additional insight. I also came across the "Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers" organization which might also be helpful.
 
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I'm so curious as to why your son is attracted to a military academy? Really doesn't sound like he will fit in and I would not feel too safe having someone with those views in my platoon. Scary.
 
I'm so curious as to why your son is attracted to a military academy? Really doesn't sound like he will fit in and I would not feel too safe having someone with those views in my platoon. Scary.

On the contrary: service to one's nation can be (and perhaps should be?) independent of political inclination or area of origin. One of the finest things about this vastly diverse country we all share is the diversity of beliefs our cadets and midshipmen bring with them to a college and service academy. When the military infrastructure of a nation no longer reflects ALL of that nation is when nations fall.
 
If your son has problems with doing things "reflexively," the military is not the place for him.

An individual's ability to follow orders and still apply critical thinking are not mutually exclusive. There's a time and place for following orders without question, but mission command doesn't work if you are a robot.

I'm so curious as to why your son is attracted to a military academy? Really doesn't sound like he will fit in and I would not feel too safe having someone with those views in my platoon. Scary.

That's a bit harsh. His son is still young and college is a place where a lot of your views get to be challenged and refined (and don't take that as me knocking on or supporting his son's views, just as a general statement that applies to all college students, regardless of where you go); theoretically you grow from this and become an even more productive member of society than when you first entered. Second, the military has people from all kinds of walks of life. Everyone brings something different to the team. A good leader figures out how to make that team (i.e. platoon, squad, company, etc. - whatever it is) an inclusive group and get the most productivity out of it possible to accomplish the mission.
 
We are a Army family. My husband and I were both Army officers, our DS is on active duty and our DD is a cadet at West Point. We are all liberals. The political climate of the Army and USMA certainly leans right, but that is not to say all soldiers/cadets are socially and politically conservative.
So, would my son, as a liberal/progressive, intellectual/scientist type, have a place as USMA?
Absolutely.
 
I would caution anyone from thinking that a service academy is the place to make waves and have folks bend to your comfort zones.

Don't like patriotic conservatives? Tough. Don't like Christians? Tough. Don't like liberal hippie wieners? Tough.

Stay true to yourself but beyond that, I'd hesitate to convince all those pathetic anti-science bozo dumb baby-loving Christians that you're right.

I'm one of those baby loving Christians who enjoys science (but not multi variable calculus)... But I am a pathetic bozo.
 
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