President-bashing Marine given the boot

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by zanders, Apr 8, 2012.

  1. zanders

    zanders Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    For a second time, a federal judge Friday refused to order a halt to the Marine Corps' process of discharging a sergeant who made comments critical of President Obama on Facebook.

    District Judge Marilyn Huff refused a request from civilian attorneys for Sgt. Gary Stein to issue a temporary restraining order to block the discharge process.

    But she did schedule a hearing for next Friday to hear the attorneys' assertion that the Marine Corps is violating Stein's 1st Amendment rights and that the Administrative Separation Board is an unfair process that denies due process.

    The board Thursday night voted 3 to 0 to recommend that Stein be dismissed from the Marine Corps with an other-than-honorable discharge. The recommendation will be sent to the commanding general of Marine Corps Recruit Depot San Diego.

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...-the-marine-corps-process-of-discharging.html

    ----
    A pertinent note from the comment section of the LA Times

    I can't wait until this yokel gets his due - a one-way ticket back to Baptist Hollow where he can be a recruiter for "the Oath Breakers," the group of coward former-Americans that think it's perfectly OK for a uniformed member of the armed forces to post ignorant, racist, treasonous crap about the Commander in Chief online in a public forum.

    Arguing about retirement benefits ? Give me a break - he can work at his Pappy's gas station in The Hollow until he keels over.

    ----
     
  2. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2012
    Messages:
    537
    Likes Received:
    37
    What are you saying by posting this article? That the marine-soon to be ex- has been unfairly discharged? Or that you agree that his outburst is traitorous and he should be discharged? Personally, I think that you need to keep any snide comments and resentment for the Commander and Chief out of the public arena until you are no longer on the pay roll, but I am unsure as to what your position is on this because the article seems sympathetic to the marine and the comment at the end damns him.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2012
  3. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2007
    Messages:
    4,628
    Likes Received:
    5
    Yet Army Major Nidal Hasan still draws ~$6,000 per month active duty pay after killing 13 human beings at Ft Hood.
     
  4. GoSox

    GoSox Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    48
    The guy ignored multiple warnings from his superior officers and made multiple postings, including one where he said he would not follow orders from Obama. A lot of people tried to stop him from ruining his career but he didn't listen. There are guys who I worry about getting a raw deal but he isn't one of them.

    Not sure why somebody would chime in with a comment about the major who shot people still receivng AD pay -- that's how it works until he goes through the military justice system; that's how it worked for the Marine who got the boot.
     
  5. dadkone

    dadkone Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why The

    Can anyone explain the unreasonable delay in a military tribunal's resolution of this matter? Thank you.
     
  6. dadkone

    dadkone Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2009
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why The Delay?

    Can anyone explain the unreasonable delay in a military tribunal's resolution of this matter? Thank you.
     
  7. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,273
    Likes Received:
    312
    Like most readers, I was disgusted by the information in Luigi's post. Why wouldnt there be a provision to suspend him without pay? He is accused of a despicable, treacherous crime. That being said, while I tend to agree that justice delayed is justice denied, Maj. Hasan is nevertheless entitled to his rights within the military justice system.

    The court martial of Maj. Hasan has been postponed a number of times, most recently until June 2012 at the request of defense counsel.

    One of the factors in the delay has been the protective order sought by the govt. for documents concerning his relationship to the recently dispatched Anwar-al-Awlaki.
     
  8. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4,275
    Likes Received:
    606
    Disgusted by what? Due process? The presumption of innocence before the law? What a pain the 4th Amendment has turned out to be.
     
  9. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,273
    Likes Received:
    312
    Scout Pilot:

    You misread my post: nothing in it suggests I am against Maj. Hasan's presumption of innocence and his right to a vigorous defense. My disgust was directed to the fact that he continues to be paid while under accusation of multiple capital offenses.

    Also, you cited the fourth amendment, but it has no relevance here.
     
  10. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4,275
    Likes Received:
    606
    I didn't misread it. I read what you wrote. It reads that you are against it, because you're arguing that the accusation of capital offenses is grounds to strip him of his pay and rank as an officer. He can only be stripped of those if he is found guilty. To strip him of pay and rank prior to his conviction is to presume guilt. He is afforded the same presumption of innocence as any soldier/officer under the UCMJ.

    You are correct, I should've said the fifth amendment, and to a degree, the fourteenth.
     
  11. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,852
    Likes Received:
    342
    Scout...don't faint.... :eek:

    But I agree with you 100% :wow:

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  12. zanders

    zanders Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2012
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
  13. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4,275
    Likes Received:
    606
  14. Packer

    Packer Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,877
    Likes Received:
    5
    I am with you Scout but also think I see EDelahanty's point. It has been 2-1/2 years and no trial yet. What he did is pretty well documented with lots of witnesses, the why doesn't really change anything so it does seem like 2-1/2 years drawing pay waiting for a trial is a long time. Just my opinion.

    Another opinion: Sgt. Gary Stein needed to go.
     
  15. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,807
    Likes Received:
    444
    Can anyone familiar with the the Administrative Separation Board explain to me how it has the authority for other than honorable discharge.

    I am thinking along the line of article 15 vs a Courts Martial. I didn't think that soldiers/sailors/airmen can be given other than honorable discharge through a board action.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2012
  16. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2007
    Messages:
    4,628
    Likes Received:
    5
    There is no reason any employer, including the US Govt, needs to continue to pay someone who is not doing their job anymore, but who instead sits in a jail cell awaiting trial for 13 counts of 1st Degree Murder.

    Take his pay. If he's found "Not Guilty," award him the back pay, with interest.
     
  17. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2010
    Messages:
    1,273
    Likes Received:
    312
    As enacted by Congress, Article 13 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice provides the following:

    "No person, while being held for trial, may be subjected to punishment or penalty other than arrest or confinement upon the charges pending against him, nor shall the arrest or confinement imposed upon him be any more rigorous than the circumstances required to insure his presence, but he may be subjected to minor punishment during that period for infractions of discipline."

    So whatever my personal opinion, Maj. Hasan is entitled to retain his rank and continue drawing pay. I just hope he doesn't sue the Army for negligence in allowing someone to shoot him, resulting in his paralysis, while he was going about his business.
     
  18. scoutpilot

    scoutpilot Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4,275
    Likes Received:
    606
    If only he was just an employee.
     
  19. NorwichDad

    NorwichDad Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,275
    Likes Received:
    212
    Big Picture over Maj Hassan

    I really marval at the "Due Process" in this country. I think about the people in other courts in the world and what they have to deal with. Maybe some one facing life imprisonment for saying to a coworker that they do not like the current government in his African Country. Someone who wanted to worship their God in the Former Soviet Union on trial. I think about an anti-Nazi facing a court in Germany in the 1930s. Maj Hassan should certainly recieve all his rights and priviledge under our laws. It is why we have had these laws and rights so long. So long that even a man like Maj Hassan, depite his efforts, could ever undermine.
     
  20. usnabgo08

    usnabgo08 USNA 2008/BGO

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2007
    Messages:
    1,829
    Likes Received:
    594
    Honorable, General, and Other Than Honorable (OTH) discharges ARE NOT punitive discharges, therefore it is NOT a function of a court martial. A Bad Conduct Discharge (BCD) can be imposed at a special or general court martial and a Dishonorable Discharge (DD) can only be imposed at a general court martial; both of these discharges are punitive.

    Authority resides in DOD Instruction 1332.14, for Characterization of Service during an Enlisted Administrative Separation Board.

    (c) Under Other Than Honorable Conditions
    1. This characterization may be issued in the following circumstances:

    a. When the reason for separation is based upon a pattern of behavior that constitutes a significant departure from the conduct expected of Service members of the Military Services.

    b. When the reason for separation is based upon one or more acts or omissions that constitute a significant departure from the conduct expected of Service members of the Military Services. Examples of factors that may be considered include the use of force or violence to produce serious bodily injury or death; abuse of a special position of trust; disregard by a superior of customary superior-subordinate relationships; acts or omissions that endanger the security of the United States or the health and welfare of other Service members of the
     

Share This Page