President Trump, Commander in Chief. Thoughts?

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The Trump we have seen so far is a vicious, vindictive, unhinged autocrat with no respect for the rule of law.

Milly,

Folks here have given you respect. I said your question concerning serving under a commander-in-chief whom you consider detestable is legitimate. There have been a number of responses that have been thoughtful and even sympathetic to your feelings about P E Trump, but most have rounded back to this: The SA's, xROTC and the military at large are a microcosm of society at large. That is as difficult for your vision of a Trump loving cadet as it is for your Trump hating DD and her DM (dear mother). All these kids show up at an SA or any other university knowing nothing about the world. They've been sheltered in their own little world. If they're at an SA they've probably been told how great they are since birth. All that gets ground to dust.

My DS thought he was the cock of the walk and it took about three seconds for him to be disabused of that notion. He is a dyed-in-the-wool Bernie guy. His running mates were a cross section of America. He had a teetotaling Mormon wingman. He has a married gay suite mate in a Muslim country. None of these folks give a rat's ass about Trump v. Clinton v. Obama. Maybe they talk about it over tea in the souk, but they are more apt to ***** about having to drink tea instead of a cold Bud with their kebab and humus. I'll give no more detail about my DS, but he has infinitely more to consider vis a vis P E Trump than you or your DD. Then again, he has other things and people to be concerned about.

For now, we get you it. Your not the only one who if miffed by Trump's election. Most of us are actually thinking about how an 18-24 Cadet/Junior Officer sorts out the politics with his/her duty, not who is right or wrong. There are plenty of forums for you to vent your frustration. Here you will simply beat your head against the wall.
 
The Trump we have seen so far is a vicious, vindictive, unhinged autocrat with no respect for the rule of law.

Milly,

Folks here have given you respect. I said your question concerning serving under a commander-in-chief whom you consider detestable is legitimate--both as a general proposition and with specific regards to P E Trump. There have been a number of responses that have been thoughtful and even sympathetic to your feelings about P E Trump, but most have rounded back to this: The SA's, xROTC and the military at large are a microcosm of society at large. That is as difficult for your vision of a Trump loving cadet as it is for your Trump hating DD and her DM (dear mother). All these kids show up at an SA or any other university knowing nothing about the world. They've been sheltered in their own little world. If they're at an SA they've probably been told how great they are since birth. All that gets ground to dust.

My DS thought he was the cock of the walk and it took about three seconds for him to be disabused of that notion. He is a dyed-in-the-wool Bernie guy. His running mates were a cross section of America. He had a teetotaling Mormon wingman. He has a married gay suite mate in a Muslim country. None of these folks give a rat's ass about Trump v. Clinton v. Obama. Maybe they talk about it over tea in the souk, but they are more apt to ***** about having to drink tea instead of a cold Bud with their kebab and humus. I'll give no more detail about my DS, but he has infinitely more to consider vis a vis P E Trump than you or your DD. Then again, he has other things and people to be concerned about.

For now, we get you it. Your not the only one who if miffed by Trump's election. Most of us are actually thinking about how an 18-24 Cadet/Junior Officer sorts out the politics with his/her duty, not who is right or wrong. There are plenty of forums for you to vent your frustration. Here you will simply beat your head against the wall.
 
cb7893 ----- Yes, indeed. There HAVE been respectful, thoughtful responses on this thread. I DO appreciate it.
 
Several thoughts:

1) Yes I have made several broad comments that are negative about the president-elect that are not directly related to USNA. I have done this for two reasons. First, because I am horrified at the outcome of this election. This emotional motivation does not themselves justify the posts on this particular forum. For that, I apologize.

2) The broad observations ARE, however, appropriate for this forum for a different reason - there are repeated posters attacking my concerns by attacking me personally, rather than addressing the substance of the assertion that this election IS different. That is the reason I have posted the comment like the broad-based observation above. Too many die-hard republicans voted for Clinton for ANYBODY to believe that this election is little different than all that have preceded it. Many, many thoughtful conservatives who don't like Clinton and hate her policies voted for her because they recognized that this election was about more than just republicans versus democrats. One of you said that those who voted for Trump were somehow able to hear his "true" message while the rest of us were, somehow confused, partially by the media. If you are visibly disabled, you got his message clearly when he mocked the reporter. If you are a woman, you got the message clearly how he feels about women. If you are an immigrant, you know how he feels - remember, Mexico is not sending their best, they are sending criminals and rapists. We ALL got the repeated message about a free and open media - it has no role in Trump's America. Honestly, I keep coming back to the thought: What would Jesus do? Or even, what would Ronald Reagan say?!!!

This country is at a dangerous juncture. One need only look to the tweet that the president-elect put out on Wednesday evening, asserting that the protesters are unfair but they are professionals, paid for by the media. This is not a "throw-away" tweet. It is a MEGA red flag, for those of you who did not see the red flags that preceded it. It is EXACTLY the response that we in this country have seen and judged harshly when it has occurred throughout history in other countries. Accusations by fascists and demagogues, like Putin, that paint any dissent is illegitimate. Much like Putin, Trump will attempt to suppress any and all dissent by denigrating the dissenters and defaming the media. ALWAYS the media. If he controls the message, we are all in trouble.

3) For those who have asserted without cause that my poor, sensitive daughter might be better suited to an ultra liberal university where nobody will ever question her views because she MUST be in need of safe spaces all the time: That's known as a baseless, personal attack. My daughter can hold her own and is tough as nails. There is a difference between what she is ABLE to do versus what she is WILLING to do and even what she feels strongly that she SHOULD do. I don't particularly care that you chose to denigrate my daughter, even without any reality to justify it. After all, the bulk of this election cycle was reality-challenged as well as attack-minded.

4) To the poster who asked why it would matter if women's roles in the military become more restricted again; the specific comment was: "Are you arguing that restricting women from joining combat arms makes it more challenging for them to be in the military?" The response to this comment relates directly to the other poster's comments who stated that my opinion does not count because I have not served in the military. If I lack credibility on this online forum because I have not served, how can you think that women could advance to top military leadership positions if they are blocked from combat roles? Those who lead must be able to relate in a personal way to those they are expected to lead. It has always been a concern for women that advancement is limited when their roles are restricted. Women have always struggled for respect in the military; it's been an easier road for some than others. The path is far more difficult when it is more narrow.

5) When we elect a commander in chief who openly denigrates the disabled, women, minorities, it encourages a culture of such behavior. We are already seeing, across the country, an increase in brazen attacks by some who are encouraged by Trump's words. This has a direct implication for women in the military - there are still many in the military who oppose women's presence amongst them. This faction is now emboldened. If women's roles are more restricted, this faction is further emboldened.

6) News flash: the US military is facing a growing labor shortage, particularly in its higher ranks (i.e., the leadership positions typically held by service academy graduates). Push away the women, this shortage becomes more dire.

7) With total republican control of the presidency and our Congress, we can expect swift movement on issues critical for women who plan professional careers. Whether you are pro-choice or anti-choice; and whether you support women's access to reproductive rights in general or oppose it - the empirical evidence is QUITE clear on this issue. When women can control their own bodies, they can invest in their professional futures. Stacking the Supreme Court with anti-choice, anti-reproductive rights men will erode women's labor force progress that we have experienced over the past 50 years. I DO understand that many would applaud this - this very well may be what some of you think of when you think about "make America great again." Maybe that is equivalent to "put women back in the home again." Either way, women are justifiably concerned that their progress over the past 50 years is again threatened by men who don't respect them as equals.

8) For my brave, strong, confident daughter - she will find a way to serve. She just may not be willing to serve in the US military for the reasons I've stated previously but also, for another reason. Although she is perfectly capable of living amongst those who disagree with her politics (duh, she's got lots of friends who are republicans) and she certainly can keep her opinions to herself when appropriate, she may not be willing to be silenced at this critical point in our nation. For those of us who feel that our very democracy is at stake (and there are millions of us out here), she may feel that she can contribute best to our country by USING her voice, not silencing it.

9) Despite all the above - my family will always respect our military and be grateful for those who are willing to serve. Thus, I have to be glad that there are many who disagree with me on the merit of my concerns, and I am glad that even some who agree will still be willing to serve. Our nation deserves the best and the brightest, even if it turns out to NOT be the path that my daughter follows. One poster made this same point earlier in this thread and I agree with it.
 
Did I believe in Hillary Clinton? That is not the point. She is a real politician with experience and passion and knowledge and respect for the constitution. She respects the democratic process and the role of the media.
 
Did I believe in Hillary Clinton? That is not the point. She is a real politician with experience and passion and knowledge and respect for the constitution. She respects the democratic process and the role of the media.

Um, that's exactly the point.... who do you believe in.

The DNC process was anything but democratic.

I wonder, besides what you've been fed, why do you believe she had an passion or skill?

I do wonder, what do you believe the "role of the media" has been the past 10-15 years?
 
Agreed. Posts in this thread need to relate to military service and how the election affected that. We particularly don't need huge political dissertations. Keep it on the topic or I will remove the thread.

Stealth_81

Rather than remove the thread, would banning (temporarily) those that violate the forum rules of engagement be an option?
 
It is kind of very strange that so many people actually serving in the military favor military contact in the form of combat when one might think, if the military was quite effectively and properly informed, that members currently serving in the military would want anything but that. It would seem to me that when a person is younger about the last that person might want to know about is how the inside of a body bag looks.
 
It is kind of very strange that so many people actually serving in the military favor military contact in the form of combat when one might think, if the military was quite effectively and properly informed, that members currently serving in the military would want anything but that. It would seem to me that when a person is younger about the last that person might want to know about is how the inside of a body bag looks.

Where is this coming from? What study were you planning to site?
 
Rather than remove the thread, would banning (temporarily) those that violate the forum rules of engagement be an option?


So many offenders. Which ones to ban? Where to draw the line? Lucky me that I'm not a decider. Talk about folks needing safe spaces.
 
And they all got up Wednesday morning put on their uniforms and went to work protecting the Constitution of the United States. Don't think the midnight shift walked off or demonstrated at any military base or tried to burn down Oakland.
 
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If I was your child Milly I would be absolutely embarrassed at your ranting. Not to say that your daughter is, but if she shares your views she will need to keep them to herself if and when she gets to a SA or is in ROTC. When joining the military you lose certain aspects of your free speech and your chance to protest is when you vote. If it does not create a more mission ready fighting force it does not need to be heard in public. When I rant it is to my wife other than that nobody else knows how I feel.
 
When I rant it is to my wife other than that nobody else knows how I feel.

Talk about ranting to their wife, a little historical tidbit in a letter from General George McClellan to his wife, ranting about the Lincoln administration!

McClellan not only resisted such realities; in private he also expressed his contempt for all Republican politicians—including Lincoln. In letters to his wife he wrote that “I can’t tell you how disgusted I am becoming with these wretched politicians—they are a most despicable set of men. . . . I am becoming daily more disgusted with this imbecile administration.”

The cabinet contained “some of the greatest geese I have ever seen. . . . Seward is the meanest of them all—a meddlesome, officious, incompetent little puppy. . . . Welles is a garrulous old woman . . . Bates an old fool. . . . The presdt. is nothing more than a well meaning baboon . . . ‘the original gorilla.’ . . . It is sickening in the extreme . . . [to] see the weakness and unfitness of the poor beings who control the destinies of this great country.”

As much as things change political, they stay the same....
 
If I was your child Milly I would be absolutely embarrassed at your ranting. Not to say that your daughter is, but if she shares your views she will need to keep them to herself if and when she gets to a SA or is in ROTC. When joining the military you lose certain aspects of your free speech and your chance to protest is when you vote. If it does not create a more mission ready fighting force it does not need to be heard in public. When I rant it is to my wife other than that nobody else knows how I feel.

Interestingly, the point about keeping one's opinion to oneself when in the military is exactly the point that I made. It's totally excellent that we agree. Here is a general rule of thumb: If you are ranting at someone, telling someone that THEY have embarrassed themselves or those that they love, consider yourself to be on rocky ground. Or living in a house without mirrors. I know you are but what am I? Wow, now does THAT sound familiar or what?
 
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