Presidential Appointments

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by delaney, Mar 26, 2011.

  1. delaney

    delaney Member

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    Does anyone know the particulars about Presidential appointments?

    - will they be in the wave of 400 or so that are coming out this next week...

    - do the candidates in the Presidential Pool get ranked against other Presidential candidates only, or...

    - will they compete against all candidates with a Presidential nomination, including those with another nominating source (such as MOC)

    - and if so, will Presidential candidates have to wait until the entire MOC slate is complete?

    Just wondering if my DS will hear this week as well as many of the others, or if there is a different timeline for them.

    I have seen only one or two on the appointment thread, so I wondered how many had already been given out.
     
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Presidentials go out throughout the yr. CC's son got Pres. back for Class of 12 in November.

    Presidential candidates that have MOCs can be picked up on the MOC slate or the Presidential. They compete against their own MOC slate, and for Presidential they compete against everyone in the nation with a Presidential.

    It is like any other slate highest WCS wins.

    They will be in the wave.
     
  3. MKD

    MKD New Member

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    Delaney,

    I can't answer your questions directly, but will give provide my son's experience as a data point.

    He completed the entire application process with only a Presidential nomination-- the last item completed was the MoC interview. I assume he was ranked against the entire pool of applicants because he was told to reaccomplish the PT test (every other portion of the application was pretty strong)- which he did in December. Mid-January he accomplished the MoC interview and received that nomination. Mid-February he received an appointment but we are not sure which monination was utilized. If I had to guess, it was the MoC and not the Presidential becasue we are from an under-rpresented district (South Carolina) and our MoC did call to congratulate him. This means his Presidential nomination would not count against the annual quota.

    Hope this helps.

    MKD
     
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    The one thing to understand about Presidential compared to MOC noms is there are unlimited amount of noms. Typically they are @500 Presidential noms. HOWEVER, only 100 can be charged to the President.

    Like MKD stated they believe they are going to be charged to their MOC. That means if the pool was 500, and you remove them, your child would be going up against 499.

    Top 100 WCS who are not charged to other sources will win. The most important aspect is those with multiple noms can be brought in via various sources. The number 2 on the Sen from VA can still get apptd to the AFA via Presidential. The same with a candidate that is on the MOC's list from CO.
     
  5. delaney

    delaney Member

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    I understand that - does anyone have a rough idea of how many candidates with Pres. nominations there are? Pima - did you use 500 as just an example, or might that be close to the real number?

    Also - CC's son, who got an appointment in Nov with a Presidential nomination - case in point - if he had also applied for Con/Sen nominations, and later received one (by Jan 31st if the MOC waited that long) would his nomination be charged then to the MOC if he was the principal or the top candidate per the Academy on that slate?

    Really, just trying to figure out the odds. And we'll know soon enough I hope!
     
  6. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    I can't reiterate enough times how complicated the appointment process is. I wish I could tell you: "Complete all the following on this list, with a score of "X" or higher, and you automatically get an appointment". Unfortunately, it is so much more complicated than that. We try and give some insight on the appointment process, but there's so many variables. Each nomination source has so many "Guaranteed" (For a lack of a better term). And there are many nomination categories. (Click on the link in my signature block for the academy brochure, and you'll see all the nomination categories). Then; you have the National Pool, where basically everyone else competes in "After they've competed in their individual nomination slates". But then; not everyone who is offered an appointment will accept their appointment. But do they just go down the list on the national pool for the next applicant? No, not necessarily. If the person who turned down their appointment was from a guaranteed nomination slated slot, then the academy will go back to THAT SLATE and take an individual from there. If the person who turned it down came from the National Pool, then yes, the next person will come from the national pool. And in the mist of all this, the academy is also trying to balance the diversity of the incoming class. Remember, diversity is not just race or gender. It's economics, state representation, first generation going to college, exceptional world experiences, etc...

    As for my son; early appointment are a totally different category also. Many colleges offer "Early acceptance". They do this to try and excite and entice the applicant to commit. In the case of the academies, the ONLY way to get an early appointment is if you have a Non-MOC nomination. Presidential, ROTC, etc... (You must have a nomination to get an appointment, and most/all MOC nominations don't even interview until the end of November and December). So my son had his MOC paperwork in for nominations, and was scheduled for an interview. But as soon as he received his early appointment, using the presidential nomination, he contacted his MOC's and informed them that he received an appointment, and wouldn't need to have a nomination from them. This freed up their slots for someone else. Had he pursued the MOC nomination, it's possible that he could have been charged later to the MOC slot, and freed back up the Presidential for someone else. That has occurred in the Army and possibly Naval academies. At the air force academy however; once my son ACCEPTED the appointment at the beginning of November, the air force academy removed one available slot from the presidential slate. The air force academy doesn't juggle nominations ONCE the appointment has been accepted. So; since my son accepted the appointment in November, there was no need to go to MOC interviews. His appointment was already allocated to the presidential slate, and nothing was going to change that.

    Now; more applicable to the majority, where appointments are given out in March/April; it is very common for individuals to have a presidential and a MOC nomination. The academy will bounce these slates against each other. They will start with the Non-MOC nominations when possible. Because ALL individuals are authorized to apply for a MOC nomination, but not everyone is authorized to apply for the Non-MOC nominations.

    But again; it is so much more complicated than you can imagine. There is absolutely no way for you to "Figure out the odds". You don't know all those in your district that have a nomination. You don't know all those in your state who have a nomination. If you make it to the National Pool, you have no idea if your scores are in the top 10% of the national pool or the bottom 10% of the national pool. EXAMPLE: The #2 person on a MOC's slate who didn't get the automatic slot for the MOC, could be at the 50% mark in the National Pool. While the #10 person on a MOC slate could have the score to make them in the top 10% of the national pool.

    Sorry if this doesn't answer any of your questions. But the only somewhat guarantees in the process is that generally, there will be a guarantee of one individual from each of the 553 MOC slates. There will be 100 guaranteed presidentials. There will be guaranteed 20 JrROTC/ROTC appointments. There is usually about 50-60 guaranteed prior enlisted. (They are allowed up to 85). etc... down through all the nomination categories. When all is said and done, there will be approximately 750-800 appointments that are given out for all these guaranteed slots, as well as LOA's for those individuals the academy considers to be "No Brainers". They are that good. That will leave anywhere from 300-500 depending on how large they want the class size to be, to come from the national pool. This is the only somewhat guarantee of numbers I or anyone else can offer you. And even that is not guaranteed. The guaranteed MOC slots are about the ONLY guarantees there are. At least 1 person on the slate of 10 is going to be qualified and offered an appointment from each MOC slate. But all the others aren't even guaranteed. I.e. 500 presidential nomination may be awarded, and 100 may be authorized to receive an appointment using the presidential; but that doesn't mean there will always be 100 QUALIFIED applicants in the presidential category. If there's only 80, then only 80 will receive appointments. The UP TO is what's important. UP TO 85 prior enlisted. UP TO 20 JrROTC/ROTC. UP TO 100 presidential. Doesn't mean there WILL be.

    Again; sorry that I can't help you figure out the odds, but I hope I made it make a little more sense to you. Later, and best of luck.... Mike.....
     
  7. Gancos

    Gancos USAFA Candidate (2015)

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    Christcorp, the process may be complicated, but I think you've made a great job of making it clearer. Thank you!
     
  8. Stealth_81

    Stealth_81 Super Moderator Moderator Founding Member

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    This is the only thing that I will disagree with, Mike. Our son received Feingold's nomination in late November, was offered the appointment, and accepted it before Christmas. Later, the Academy wrote and told us that he had been switched to Kohl's nomination. In late January, they wrote and said that he had been switched again to our Rep. Petri's nomination (he didn't even interview with Petri because he had already accepted his appointment before Petri's interviews).

    I am sure that it was to free up the Senatorial slots to make room for others.

    Stealth_81
     
  9. Farleigh85

    Farleigh85 Member

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    Great explanation, Christcorp. I was wondering, though. How are turn-backs allocated? Are they reappointed through their original appointment sources? Are they allocated against available slots in the national pool?
     
  10. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    That is definitely possible. But without knowing all the details, it is quite possible that some of that may have involved the MOC's. Not saying it was, but we don't know. It's possible that the primary from the one declined or wasn't qualified and it was necessary to move them around. Again, we don't know all the details. But as I mentioned, nothing is really guaranteed. But you're also talking about one state and their MOC's. That's a little different than mixing slates out of state, or with Non-MOC slates. I've spoken directly with the regional director for the academy, and he said that once the academy makes an appointment, they charge that appointment at that time and they don't move them around. But again; it is possible that the state needed to move nominations around in order to fill the appointments with whom they wanted, with who was qualified according to the academy. Again; we don't know.

    Farleigh; when you say "Turn-Backs", are you referring to someone who made it to the academy; processed in; and for whatever reason (Usually sickness or injury) wasn't able to complete BCT and was sent home? If that is what you mean by "Turn-Back", then realize that they don't have to re-apply. They have an automatic appointment the next year. Assuming of course that whatever the reason was that they were turned-back has been corrected. In their case, it has been explained to me, they don't even need a new nomination. They simply get one of the slots that would be in the National Pool to fill the class. They normally aren't recharged to the MOC. But even if they were, it wouldn't be a problem, being their original slot was vacated anyway.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2011
  11. Farleigh85

    Farleigh85 Member

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    Yes, that's what I meant by "turnbacks." Thanks for the insight and explanation.
     
  12. delaney

    delaney Member

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    Thanks

    That does make the process much more clear. And I have realized all along that no matter how many applicants he is competing against - no one (except the Academy) knows how my DS stacks up against all the others out there.... so the wait continues.

    Thanks for all the patience that I see in these threads!
     
  13. momof5

    momof5 Member

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    Were any of the BFE's that have been given out already Presidential noms? My DS is on Spring Break in one location and we are in DC on business and he has 3 noms: Sen/Congress/Presidential and we haven't heard or received anything yet either. (our mailman has my cell number if/when he receives anything)
    __________________
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2011
  14. Romad

    Romad Member

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    "Again; sorry that I can't help you figure out the odds, but I hope I made it make a little more sense to you. Later, and best of luck.... Mike..... "

    Great information!

    Thanks

    Romad
     
  15. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Yes; some of the BFE's are with presidential nominations. Just like some are from ROTC nominations and others.
     
  16. momof5

    momof5 Member

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    ok, thank you.
     
  17. Strike Eagle

    Strike Eagle USAFA Cadet 2015

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    Wait, how do you know which slate you received your appointment from? I was on three slates but don't know which one I got mine from :confused:
     
  18. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Does it really matter? You got in.

    Usually in June the MOC's know who is charged to them.
     
  19. Strike Eagle

    Strike Eagle USAFA Cadet 2015

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    Right, I guess it doesn't :redface:
     
  20. thealt

    thealt Member

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    It's like a moving chess match where the manuevering is done to get the most desired nominees.
     

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