Presidential nominations

[Pima]

I maybe wrong, but I was under the impression the reason you change from applicant to candidate is because of your nom, and that you do not go to the board until you have a nom, (at least for the AFA) since you can't be apptd without one.

That’s not quite accurate … your file will be reviewed as soon as it is complete (each SA begins reviews at different times, USMA is already reviewing files- I've heard of summer LOAs from USMA in the past, USAFA boards meet for the first time in early October and USNA typically in September). You do NOT need a nomination for your file to be reviewed by the board of any SA. You DO need a nomination to obtain an appointment. To bridge this gap, the SAs use the LOA process, typically stating that if a candidate obtains a nomination (or passes whatever is not done) they are assured an appointment.

LOA's are totally different, I was under the understanding that this comes from the pcq, and you are ranked at the top of the top. LOA's are not common, only about 1-2% will get them. Or in other words 150 candidates out of the original 10K pcqs with an open file. Have an LOA and no nom = no appointment, it states it very clearly on the LOA.

ALOS, MALOS, BGOs please clarify!

I have never heard of a cadet meeting a board without a nom. Not even LOAS. I can be wrong. It would seem like double work for the board to give a WCS to somebody without a nom, and a req for an appt is a nom. The people that sit on the board have these meetings as additional duties, that is not their full time job. Just like ALOS/MALOS/BGOS, that is not their full time job, which would be equivalent to every person placing a pcq meeting with them. Totally than people the candidates have whittled down to the top 1/3 as applicants. Again my numbers may be off, but I believe the whittling goes from 9-10K that open a file, to 6K that complete it (which would be when mom 2011 states you go up to the board for your WCS), to 3500 that are deemed qualified to 2K+ with noms(where I thought they go up for the WCS), to 1600 appointments, which is why their acceptance rate is at the 17% makrker.

Also what I mean by boards, that is where your WCS is assigned to your file, which could be wht 2011 and I are conflicting. The AFA board that assigns the WCS and appts will not meet until Oct. They are giving out LOA's, many of them are athletic recruits, but the stipulation is you need a no, to be appt. and you will not be apptd prior to having a nom. Get a presidential and have an LOA, you will be the 1st appt.

AGAIN I could be totally wrong. I would love for clarification from people like fliegler so that the incoming candidates have a true understanding of the process, and not just personal experience/opinion.

ANd yes 2011 that was one of the points I was stressing!

If you have a Presidential nom you may get an early appointment, but you also might still have to wait a long time ....

 

[mombee]

For USNA, the board, totally independent of nominations, commences meeting in late August, usually with the better of the completed records. The points of the record are already calculated. The Board adds RABS, points which they feel warranted after their review. They then recommend qualified, not qualified, or delayed. If not qualified, they recommend either NAPS/Foundation or not. If qualified, they recommend LOA or appointment as available by merit. The record with total calculated points is then shelved. The Board is complete. It is on the strength of these points that the package progresses. I am relatively certqin that USMA and AFA are very similiar. Should they wait until the MOC nominations, they would be overworked tremendously during Dec/Jan.

Additionally, any subsequent achievements are added by the CGO as required until the record is closed in March. However, the record will not go back before the board again.

 

[Pima]

Mom, the AFA does it differently. If they feel you are qualified from your pcq, they will open a file (online), you will receive in the mail your assigned ALO and assigned DODMERB physician ( for military dependents call them and ask to use the base physician, they will allow it). From there you move foward, but unless it has changed, you can't meet the board or scored until the entire packet is complete. That includes your ALO rec has been submitted since that also goes into youe WCS. FLIEGLER correct me if I am wrong, but I thought your rec as an ALO is a part of the score.

The USNA and USMA may be different, but that was how the process worked 2 yrs ago.

I would have to ask why would they have ALOs ot BGOs, just to promote the SA? These kids are ready made it through the pcq, they don't need the come to us talk! We had the most amazing ALO, he met with DS several times during the summer to review/edit his essays. He also told us that out of his 7 candidates he was required to give scores and gave DS the highest, but also wrote in the remarks DS was his number 1 choice.

Just looked on the us.afa.mil., here is the link
http://academyadmissions.com/#Page/How_to_Apply
Hit the timeline link.

As mombee has stated every SA is different! Don't leap to the belief that because USNA does it that way or USMA does it this way and the USCA has another, while USMMA has yet that the AFA will be following any of them. They will hae their own methods.

It is a rollercoaster ride, but if you like rollercoasters than you will love the ride, if they make sick, then it is going o stink!

 

[2011's Mom]

Nom Process Information

I have never heard of a cadet meeting a board without a nom. Not even LOAS. I can be wrong. It would seem like double work for the board to give a WCS to somebody without a nom, and a req for an appt is a nom. The people that sit on the board have these meetings as additional duties, that is not their full time job. Just like ALOS/MALOS/BGOS, that is not their full time job, which would be equivalent to every person placing a pcq meeting with them. Totally than people the candidates have whittled down to the top 1/3 as applicants. Again my numbers may be off, but I believe the whittling goes from 9-10K that open a file, to 6K that complete it (which would be when mom 2011 states you go up to the board for your WCS), to 3500 that are deemed qualified to 2K+ with noms(where I thought they go up for the WCS), to 1600 appointments, which is why their acceptance rate is at the 17% makrker.

Also what I mean by boards, that is where your WCS is assigned to your file, which could be wht 2011 and I are conflicting. The AFA board that assigns the WCS and appts will not meet until Oct. They are giving out LOA's, many of them are athletic recruits, but the stipulation is you need a no, to be appt. and you will not be apptd prior to having a nom. Get a presidential and have an LOA, you will be the 1st appt.

LOAs are granted by the board at each SA and they are the same board that is determining who gets an appointment. They review all files once complete to whatever level of complete that SA requires. Files do not need a nom to go to the board. The board at each SA is put together through each SA admissions department and is typically made up of active duty officers, usually working in admissions though I have heard of other officers or even professor being on the boards as well. The board frequently creates a WCS before a nom is received. The nom will have nothing to do with the WCS. If the WCS is high enough an LOA is issued if not, the file waits to see if a nom is received later or waits to go before the board again if the candidate has updated the file with pertinent information that may impact the WCS such that a later LOA might be issued prior to a nom.

The boards for each SA typically meet once a week. If a file has been updated with pertinent information, it may go before the board again for a revised WCS. A file can go before the board several times before a determination is made for an appointment or LOA. For USAFA and USNA, the LOA stipulation is typically you need a nom & medical clearance. USMA has been known to give out LOAs with other requirements as well.

Bottom line: there are many nuances so each situation may be different than the next. Best course of action is to submit your file in the most complete fashion as early as possible while still maintaining the highest level of achievement possible and then update the file as appropriate (so it has a chance to go before the board again with the update). There is no way that we can convey every scenario to explain how the process work in a given situation. Suffice it to say that it's not a difficult process but it is riddled with lots of "if this, than that" and "if that, than this" type paths which makes it sound complicated.

I realize that this thread pertains to Presidential Noms - and my reply here is not specific to Presidential Noms ... it is important to know that if you have a Presidential nom that you are not assured an appointment, even if you are triple qualified. I always suggest that candidates apply for as many noms as they qualify. If a candidate receives a Presidential nom they can still apply for a MOC nom, VP, JROTC etc. Because there are limits to how many Cadets/Mids the SAs can accept by each nom category, having more than one can help a students odds. However, many MOCs will compare notes with each other and not allow for multiple noms, it just depends on your area.

It is very common for a MOC to do interviews by phone for students that are out of the area (as in the poster above who's out of the country). They will typically frown on a phone interview for a student that lives in the area but has another commitment (every year we get at least one request for a phone interview because the interview day interferes with Winter Ball!). Also, some MOC offices only conduct phone interviews and some conduct no interviews at all. The actual interview process and how the MOC selects who will get a nomination is entirely up to the MOC and subject to considerable variability.

 

[Pima]

To add on to mom, as you update, only that update will be re-scored for a WCS. In other words take the SAT in Sept score highrer, the board will only be re-scoring your PAR and nothing else. Get a new award, they only re-score your ECS. Your WCS will reflect that new score. That is why it is important to continue updating your file every time you have a new achievement

 

[USMAalltheway]

QUOTE: "If a candidate receives a Presidential nom they can still apply for a MOC nom, VP, JROTC etc."

Wait, you can get a JROTC nom? How do you go about getting that?

USMAalltheway

 

[Pima]

I don't know about JROTC, but you can get an ROTC nom.

 

[flieger83]

IF your AF JrROTC unit has been designated an "Honors Unit" then there is a process for obtaining one of a very few nominations from that arena.

IF you're in an Honors Unit, speak with the Det Commander...they'll know what the process is.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

 

[mombee]

Mom, the AFA does it differently. If they feel you are qualified from your pcq, they will open a file (online), you will receive in the mail your assigned ALO and assigned DODMERB physician ( for military dependents call them and ask to use the base physician, they will allow it). From there you move foward, but unless it has changed, you can't meet the board or scored until the entire packet is complete. That includes your ALO rec has been submitted since that also goes into youe WCS. FLIEGLER correct me if I am wrong, but I thought your rec as an ALO is a part of the score.

The USNA and USMA may be different, but that was how the process worked 2 yrs ago.

USNA works pretty much the same. DoDMERB comes a little later in the process, after the on-line application is half complete. This past year, I noticed some of the lesser qualified were not assigned DoDMERB at all with the understanding that if somehow they were offered an appointment, they would be assigned an exam. The BGO interview can be completed any time in the process and, yes, if exceptional, becomes a part of the package evaluation, but always an item to be reviewed by the board. No requirement for the BGO to rank his candidates. I doubt if that is true with ALOs either.

 

[mombee]

IF your AF JrROTC unit has been designated an "Honors Unit" then there is a process for obtaining one of a very few nominations from that arena.

IF you're in an Honors Unit, speak with the Det Commander...they'll know what the process is.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

For USNA, ALL NJROTC units may nominate candidates. Also, all AFJROTC and AJROTC honors units may nominate candidates to USNA. I think WP is the same and until this post, thought AFA was the same also.

 

[mombee]

From various sections of the US Code for each academy:

20 nominated by the Secretary of the Air Force, under regulations prescribed by him, from the honor graduates of schools designated as honor schools by the Department of the Army, the Department of the Navy, or the Department of the Air Force, and from members of the Air Force Reserve Officers’ Training Corps.

20 nominated by the Secretary of the Army, under regulations prescribed by him, from the honor graduates of schools designated as honor schools by the Department of the Army, the Department of the Navy, or the Department of the Air Force, and from members of the Reserve Officers’ Training Corps.

20 nominated by the Secretary of the Navy, under regulations prescribed by him, from the honor graduates of schools designated as honor schools by the Department of the Army, the Department of the Navy, or the Department of the Air Force, and from members of the Naval Reserve Officer’s Training corps.

It is the same for all three academies. The following is the USNA Catalog definition of Naval Reserve Officers Training Corps:

Naval Reserve Officers Training Corps (NROTC, NJROTC, MCJROTC);
Naval, Marine Corps, Air Force, and Army Honor Units with Distinction
Twenty appointments annually are available through nominations from these programs.
Apply to: your senior military instructor, professor of naval science or headmaster.

So the first part of the law applies to those honor units of the other services while the second part applies to service specific units, both high school and college and are not required to be honors, but from the first part, may be.

 

[USMAalltheway]

Well this is good becuase my JROTC unit is a distinuished honors unit, so I guess I can get another nom for West Point!

 

[falcongirl]

The Air Force Academy must be processing Presidential nominations quickly this year. I submitted my request early last week and it already shows I received the nomination on my application status page. Now to start work on congressional nominations...