Principal Nom- Wait List

I'm curious, does anyone know if this has happened at the other SAs? It kind of concerns me if this only happens at USNA and not at any other service academies.


I have been watching this thread with interest. As a parent of cadet and one who went through this process and who experienced the ups and downs that go along with it, I truly feel for those of you who have sons or daughters who were 'primary' nominees and who are now on the outside looking in. It definitely appears that the Navy has found a loophole. Being one who regularly looks at the federal register as part of my job (I am NOT a lawyer however), I took it on myself to search and see what I could find. The trick with the law is not only what is written the U.S. Code, but what is written as rules in the Federal Register.

Here are relevant sections that I can find, and I reduce the size for the sake of space (so get your reading glasses out):

GOBLUE1984 said:
United States Military Academy

CFR › Title 32 › Subtitle A › Chapter V › Subchapter F › Part 575 › Section 575.3
32 CFR 575.3 - APPOINTMENTS; SOURCES OF NOMINATIONS.

§ 575.3 Appointments; sources of nominations.
Admission to the Military Academy is gained by appointment to one of the cadetships authorized by law. Graduation of the senior class normally leaves about 915 vacancies each year. Candidates are nominated to qualify for these vacancies the year prior to admission. Those nominees appointed enter the Academy the following July and upon graduation are obligated to serve in the Army for a period of not less than 5 years. There are two major categories of nomination (Congressional/Gubernatorial and Service-Connected) and two minor categories (Filipino and Foreign Cadets). Cadetships authorized at the Military Academy are allocated among various sources of nominations from the major categories as follows:

....

(a) Congressional / Gubernatorial Nomination.
(1) Up to 10 nominations may be submitted for each vacancy. Nominating authorities may use one of three methods of nomination:
(i) Name 10 nominees on a totally competitive basis,
(ii) Name a principal nominee, with nine competing alternates, or
(iii) Name a principal nominee, with nine alternates in order of preference.

(2) The priority that a fully qualified candidate may receive when considered for appointment is actually governed by the method of nomination used. For example, a principal nominee who is found minimally qualified must be offered an appointment. Conversely, the same individual nominated on a totally competitive basis, may be ranked as one of the least qualified nominees for that vacancy and, consequently, may not be offered an appointment. Many nominating authorities hold preliminary competitive nomination examinations to select their nominees. Those selected are required to be actual residents of the geographic location represented by the nominating authority.


As I read this, USMA must offer the appointment to the Principal nominee. Likewise it looks like USAFA has Federal Register Rules that require they offer appointment to a "principal" nominee from a congressional seat:

GOBLUE1984 said:
United States Air Force Academy

CFR › Title 32 › Subtitle A › Chapter VII › Subchapter K › Part 901 › Subpart B › Section 901.18
32 CFR 901.18 - APPOINTMENT VACANCY SELECTION

§ 901.18 Appointment vacancy selection.
To fill a vacancy in the Vice-Presidential quota or in the quota of a nominating authority in the congressional and U.S. Possessions categories, selections for appointment offers are made according to the following nomination methods.

(a) The principal numbered-alternate method. The nominating authority indicates his or her personal preference by designating a principal nominee and listing nine numbered alternate nominees in order of preference, and the appointment is offered to the first fully qualified nominee.

(b) The principal competitive-alternate method. The nominating authority designates his or her principal nominee and names up to nine other nominees who are evaluated by the Academy and ranked behind the principal nominee in order of merit. If the principal nominee is fully qualified, that individual is offered the appointment; otherwise, the fully qualified nominee ranked the highest by the Academy is offered the appointment.

(c) The competitive method. At the request of the nominating authority, the Academy evaluates the records of all the nominees and ranks them in order of merit. The fully qualified nominee ranked the highest by the Academy is offered the appointment.


As I read this, USAFA is required to offer the appointment to the principal nominee (unless we want to go back to debating the meaning of the verb "is" in the phrase "is offered ...").

USAFA83GradWife, Your ALO would be correct in that a principal nominee is not REQUIRED to be appointed under the condition that there is no available VACANCY for that congressional seat.

if you read the USC 10, you will find that all branches have parallel language describing how nominations can be submitted and the number from which nominating source.

So how can USNA state they are not required under law to appoint the principal (despite contradictory language, postings, and statements as pointed out by WithYou2018)? The answer lies in what is published in the Federal Register. I have searched extensively through the relevant sections pertaining to the Navy (32 CFR 700 - 799) and cannot find anything that dictates appointments to the Naval Academy, whereas the other academies have such language.

I think I now understand how Navy has beaten West Point on the football field for the past 13 years.:unhappy:
 
DD's Senate interview was probably the most nerve wracking. Ten-person panel representing all 4 SAs, business leaders, etc. It was conducted like a job interview.

One of the things they look for is how you handle the pressure. Are you looking that them when answering questions? Are you speaking clearly? Are you concise, but thorough? You just don't get the same level of stress with a one-on-one, especially if your parents are there.

Why do I mention this? Because one of the comments my DD got from the Senator's office: "she showed great poise under pressure."
 
GoBlue1984 - I can't really argue one way or the other. I'm a computer scientist, not a lawyer (insert appropriate Dr McCoy joke here.)
I can only go on what the ALO told DD. I think the idea of having a parent that is going to CVW and asking the question is probably the best idea.
 
DD's Senate interview was probably the most nerve wracking. Ten-person panel representing all 4 SAs, business leaders, etc. It was conducted like a job interview.

One of the things they look for is how you handle the pressure. Are you looking that them when answering questions? Are you speaking clearly? Are you concise, but thorough? You just don't get the same level of stress with a one-on-one, especially if your parents are there.

Why do I mention this? Because one of the comments my DD got from the Senator's office: "she showed great poise under pressure."

I feel that both the MOC interviews and the BGO interview were important, but in different ways.

Similar to many, the BGO was at our home for over 2 hours. We were there at the end, but not for the bulk of it. It was very in depth.

The MOC interviews, all three, were all done by panels of interviewers. For one of the senators, there were over 300 candidates interviewed. They were intimidating. It was good experience. It was tough and i think it is supposed to be.

The interview in which my DS felt he did the worst was the one from whom he received the nomination. Panel of 6 people, some military, some not, all facing him. He said after one unexpected question, he started to speak, was stumbling over his words, stopped, got himself together and started again with more confidence. He said, "I blew it." I told him that he didn't blow it, he recovered. And the ability to do that was probably just as important as whatever he said as the answer to the question.

The only part of this process that I think might benefit from change is that of the principal nominee. I think that competitive, unranked slates might serve everybody better. JMHO
 
mista +1 :thumb:

Edit: Although DD got the principal nom from this senator. Of course, we're seeing that it may not have as much weight as we expected!
 
mista +1 :thumb:

Edit: Although DD got the principal nom from this senator. Of course, we're seeing that it may not have as much weight as we expected!

I don't mean in any way to diminish the accomplishment of any principal nominee. And whether right or wrong, it seems the understanding of most has been that the appointment is virtually assured. Given what some candidates have experienced this year, it just maybe seems that competitive slates would allow Navy their leeway while still giving MOCs the opportunity to do their own screening. I know in our state, the MOCs take the nomination process very seriously. It is rigorous and very competitive.

Of course, no system is or ever will be perfect, but maybe these unfortunate candidates wouldn't have to be in this difficult position.
 
I don't mean in any way to diminish the accomplishment of any principal nominee. <snip>.

Ha! No, no, no. I didn't take it that way.

All these kids have already accomplished great things. Regardless of whether they get an appointment or HOW they get an appointment does not diminish their achievements in any way. I am seriously impressed with each and every one of them.
 
@usafa83gradwife

My husband and I were not at the BGO interview for the entire time.. BGO interviewed my husband and I and our 3 other children for a short time and then we were dismissed... BGO then proceeded to interview DS . And yes , my DS had a large panel interviewing him for 2 different senatorial noms.... JUST like your child . Clearly he was "poised under pressure " as well as he got the nom .

My point was that the USNA does not have to rely on the congressional panels only for face to face interviews ... the BGO is typically a face to face interview.
 
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@usafa83gradwife

My husband and I were not at the BGO interview for the entire time.. BGO interviewed my husband and I and our 3 other children for a short time and then we were dismissed... BGO then proceeded to interview DS . And yes , my DS had a large panel interviewing him for 2 different senatorial noms.... JUST like your child . Clearly he was "poised under pressure " as well as he got the nom .

My point was that the USNA does not have to rely on the congressional panels only for face to face interviews ... the BGO is typically a face to face interview.

I'm sorry. I in no way wanted to imply that your DS was not "poised under pressure." I used that only as an example of why I think the Congressional interview is important. That's what we were talking about, right? Let's just agree to disagree then. :thumb:
 
Can the current process be improved? Yes, there is always room for improvement.

Does the current process provide quality candidates to the academy? Yes, everyone accepted so far has passed though several competative processes to get an appointment.

Will there be hick-ups and hurt feelings? Yes. This is definately a process where not everyone gets an appointment, unlike most youth sports where everyone gets a medal.

Will the primary noms on the waitlist eventually get an appointment? Probably yes because they will be at the top of the waitlist compared to others on the list without a primary nom. There are several candidates with appointments to more than one academy and they just have not made up their mind yet.

This was a tough year. Chin-up to all those still waiting since you are all local superstars or else you would not be on the waitlist. :thumb:
 
Got an email today that I have earned an appointment to NAPS and am still on the Wait List for direct entry!!! When is I-Day for NAPS?
 
So happy for you!! Congrats!!!! Looks like they are trying to make it right.
 
Got an email today that I have earned an appointment to NAPS and am still on the Wait List for direct entry!!! When is I-Day for NAPS?

Awesome, gavigane14! Im glad things are looking up for you! Still hoping you get that direct entry that you deserve. Either way congrats!!! :thumb:
 
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