for the record I will throw in that The Citadel has also had 3 grads who were pilots with the Thunderbirds including a past Commander, only college to have had Commanders of both military flight demo units. Also the only school to have had alumni on the Flying Tigers, Doolittle Raiders and Eagle Squadron.
Pros and Cons of The Citadel vs. VMI
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Citadelmom2017
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VMI vs Citadel
As a mom of a Citadel cadet private I am probably biased. I am sure either place. Is tough during the first year, but...Charleston is an amazing place to spend 4 years. My son has had excellent leadership during his knob year and the Citadel does NOT TOLERATE hazing and has stripped upperclassmen of rank who have been caught doing it. The days of "Lords of Discipline" are over but all cadets are expected to tow the line. The up side is that Knobs know what is expected up them and learn that in the first week on campus. additionally the Citadel offers the Citadel Success Institute during the summer where incoming Knobs can get a softer exposure to learning about what is expected of them before just jumping into it cold turkey on Matriculation Day. My son found CSI very helpful. The knobs have just completed Recognition Day and now on equal footing with the upperclassmen.
As a mom of a Citadel cadet private I am probably biased. I am sure either place. Is tough during the first year, but...Charleston is an amazing place to spend 4 years. My son has had excellent leadership during his knob year and the Citadel does NOT TOLERATE hazing and has stripped upperclassmen of rank who have been caught doing it. The days of "Lords of Discipline" are over but all cadets are expected to tow the line. The up side is that Knobs know what is expected up them and learn that in the first week on campus. additionally the Citadel offers the Citadel Success Institute during the summer where incoming Knobs can get a softer exposure to learning about what is expected of them before just jumping into it cold turkey on Matriculation Day. My son found CSI very helpful. The knobs have just completed Recognition Day and now on equal footing with the upperclassmen.
For the record, albeit funny, this is a ridiculous comment...
Check out the Thunderbirds website http://afthunderbirds.com/site/members/Officers/
What's more, you won't see VMI posting a list of who's who in Thunderbirds, Blue Angels, Flying Tigers, etc. Rest assured, notable VMI graduates (and graduates from other military schools) have been there, and done that...
I'm not "running down another school", but as we examine the past and look to the future, I personally believe there is more that sets these two schools apart than what used to make them similar. Again, check out stats (acceptance rates, % of student's needs met, student body composition) to compare and make your own decisions, based on facts... Also note that VMI is not ranked by US News in the same category as citadel--VMI is ranked with the service Academies. Forbes, I recently discovered, does rank both schools, take a look: http://www.forbes.com/top-colleges/list/
Here are some other highlights which helped me decide VMI was the right fit for me:
1. VMI is the Nation's only classical military college. It's 100% cadets--I've never had to ask a fellow VMI grad if they were a cadet or went through the Ratline (and I'll bet I never see on-line programs at VMI). It's not for everyone, but it's why I (being from Charleston) chose VMI--it's a VMI thing... I also think Lexington, Virginia is a gorgeous town.
2. Per capita, VMI has the largest endowment of any public college or university in the country--for me personally, this enabled VMI to pay for my entire last two years because I needed help. I graduated with almost no student loans because VMI met my financial needs as a cadet who had decent (not stellar) grades and was in good standing.
3. In terms of military accomplishments, VMI has graduated 6 Medal of Honor recipients, including a former VMI Superintendent who was the first American to hold all three of the Nation's highest military awards (Superintendent is what the president of a military school is called) VMI is the only college or university in America to have graduated four-star general Chiefs of Staff of the Army, Air Force, and Marines (2 Commandants of the USMC). And VMI's Army ROTC program has graduated more Generals than any ROTC program in the country: http://www.vmi.edu/Content.aspx?id=13224, including the only non-service-academy 5-star general in US history. VMI's Marine Corps cadets consistently have the highest Marine Corps Bulldog graduation success rates of any ROTC unit in the country. When I was a cadet, VMI's Commandants were both notable war heroes--both were VMI grads, one was a multiple Navy Cross recipient and one was a Medal of Honor nominee. These facts may not matter to everyone, but because I strongly desired to serve in the military, these were factors I considered important when making my decision.
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Isn't this doing exactly that.
I would hope that nobody chooses a school based on accomplishments of past graduates. In the end it will come down to how you as a cadet perform academically, physically, and within ROTC or an Academy if you choose. Cadet Command cares less what past graduates have accomplished and only on how you perform.
The SMC's have a great history and turn out some great officers, as do other universities. The SMC's just by virtue of being a Military College turns out a larger percentage of commissioned officers then most other ROTC Programs, their resume of graduates will reflect those numbers.
Many schools across the country can boast some prominent graduates. Choose what will fit you the best and afford you the opportunity for success.
No, this "isn't doing exactly that," it's correcting erroneous info. And, while I agree with some of what you say, I would add that the measure of a school does have something to do with the contributions and accomplishments of its graduates, and I believe VMI leads the pack in this regard.
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NorwichDad
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There are no extraordinary colleges... just extraordinary circumstances that ordinary colleges are forced to deal with.
William Halsey
William Halsey
NorwichDad
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G Gordon Liddy is an alum of my high school. Not active the alumni, although rumor has it he still sneaks around the school at night.
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I don't think that considering the accomplishments of alumni is an invalid point of consideration when you are comparing schools. Every school advertises the accomplishments of its alumni and certainly it carries weight in virtually every students calculation- Why go to MIT rather than some other no-name school that offers an undergraduate engineering major? In part because of the schools reputation- a large part of which is the result of the accomplishments of its alumni. No difference here- VMI and The Citadel both can be justly proud of the long line of accomplished graduates and anyone who discounts that- well you are living in dream world if you think that is irrelevant to a decision to go to one of those schools. The success of the alumni that a school produces is one of the measures of the effectiveness of the program- the alumni are after all the schools product. HOWEVER, because someone from the class of 1901 got to be the Chief of Staff and a Nobel Prize winner is probably not all that relevant to the decision making process of a potential member of the class of 2019. And because there are a lot of successful alumni doesn't mean that going to the school will guarantee that you are going to be equally as successful. No system- regardless of how proven- is only a framework that a smart person can build upon for their own success or squander if they aren't willing to work themselves.
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NorwichDad
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I kindly disagree, I think from experience with 4 kids in college that the fit/comfort of a school is so much more important than the reputation/alumni/accomplishments. Norwich fit like a glove for DS1. DS2 would have not lasted a semester there but is prospering in another New England college higher ranked than Norwich. Alumni accomplishments mean nothing to those who as freshman who leave their college by Christmas.
You have to be selfish in choosing the school. How do I fit(visit). Can I succeed. Is this the program I want and can afford. Will it take me to where I want to go. These are very important decisions in life.
As for our SA/SMCs/ROTC, dont worry now about the Ghosts of a school. Get the school that fits, then focus/prepare now for you to succeed in GPA and PT when you are there.
Roughrider
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I have seen this over and over and over again from the other side of the process. I sit on a selections committee for the medical school at which I teach, and both my wife and I are alumni representative interviewers for our respective alma maters. I can tell you from 10+ years of working with admissions, we focus tightly on FIT, which means that we would almost always take the kid with lower stats (as long as his numbers are reasonable) who can tell us why we are his first choice, over the kid who looks better on paper, but can give us no solid, personalized reasons for why s/he wants to attend.
What we want to know is why is this the place for you, personally, and what can you, personally, contribute to the community? If you can answer that question sincerely (and please do not try to snow us; we have heard it all) and not parrot back our recruiting brochures, even if your answer is not eloquent, we will make it our mission to get you in. "I've talked to other students at length, and we have the following, specific, things in common but I think I could learn the following, specific, things from the differences," and "I sat in on a class taught by (my major interest department) and I feel sure that coming here would challenge me in the following, specific, ways, but it just feels like home at the same time," goes a lot farther than "You're ranked in the top 50 and you've graduated 20 Nobel prize winners." We already know about us. We need for you to tell us about you.
This is how our daughter ended up, and thrived, at a tiny liberal arts college in the midwest that our son wouldn't touch with a barge pole. It's also why he's looking at schools that may be slightly off the US News & World Report radar but are nonetheless likely to engage him and get the most out of him. These applicants are young individuals. They should gauge and compare the schools on an individual basis.
Understand all the viewpoints here, but this thread is about "pros and cons of citadel vs vmi." And there are some marked differences. In that vein (and while I see the merits of some viewpoints here) I would add that the accomplishments, more importantly, the contributions to society of a school's alumni are worth noting... along with the size, student body composition, location, endowment, study abroad opportunities, and many many other factors.
For example, VMI has graduated numerous Fulbright, Marshall, and varied scholars--many, many other schools have as well. A unique factor worth noting academically is the Rhodes Scholarship. This scholarship is considered the most prestigious scholarship in the world. Does it matter? It matters to a great deal of colleges across the U.S.--Today, many Colleges and Universities are making specific/targeted efforts to graduate just one Rhodes Scholar, year after year without success. VMI has graduated 10--that's the largest per capita of any public school in the U.S. and, along with endowments, location, etc. is a distinct difference between these two choices. Does that mean you will be a Rhodes scholar if you come to VMI? Definitely not. But it does mean that VMI professors (100% of whom have PhDs/terminal degrees and are focussed on teaching) have the experience, knowledge, and expertise needed to guide someone towards that goal, if necessary. And it is a major difference between these two choices. In the end, these and other differences might matter to you, your DS or your DD--they should not be discarded.
For example, VMI has graduated numerous Fulbright, Marshall, and varied scholars--many, many other schools have as well. A unique factor worth noting academically is the Rhodes Scholarship. This scholarship is considered the most prestigious scholarship in the world. Does it matter? It matters to a great deal of colleges across the U.S.--Today, many Colleges and Universities are making specific/targeted efforts to graduate just one Rhodes Scholar, year after year without success. VMI has graduated 10--that's the largest per capita of any public school in the U.S. and, along with endowments, location, etc. is a distinct difference between these two choices. Does that mean you will be a Rhodes scholar if you come to VMI? Definitely not. But it does mean that VMI professors (100% of whom have PhDs/terminal degrees and are focussed on teaching) have the experience, knowledge, and expertise needed to guide someone towards that goal, if necessary. And it is a major difference between these two choices. In the end, these and other differences might matter to you, your DS or your DD--they should not be discarded.
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NorwichDad
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+1. It is really a wonderful thing to watch when the admissions process and candidate process produces the perfect match!
Halsey spent time at UvA, but he never visited VMI...
NorwichDad
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