QNS Letters have started going out

cb7893 said:
parents are entitled to do a little wallowing...out of sight of our kids.

Plan B sounds pretty good.
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i have actually found myself to have become a little bitter towards the selection process and NWL.

The notion of"Go to your college for a year and reapply to USMA..." certainly rubs me the wrong way.

Loyalty is a vital part of leadership. If our DS is not offered an appointment to West Point, you can rest assured he will not be reapplying a year later. He will take the route presented to him and run with it. His goal is to become an officer in the US Armed Forces. He will do it with or without West Point- with a school that recognizes his value.

Sorry to vent, but it's a bit ridiculous to act as if USMA is the only way he can get to where he wants to go. That piece has been a bit of a turn-off in this 2 year vetting process. West Point is a fine institution, but not the only one.
 
FlyBoy1993 said:
i have actually found myself to have become a little bitter towards the selection process and NWL.

The notion of"Go to your college for a year and reapply to USMA..." certainly rubs me the wrong way.

Loyalty is a vital part of leadership. If our DS is not offered an appointment to West Point, you can rest assured he will not be reapplying a year later. He will take the route presented to him and run with it. His goal is to become an officer in the US Armed Forces. He will do it with or without West Point- with a school that recognizes his value.

Sorry to vent, but it's a bit ridiculous to act as if USMA is the only way he can get to where he wants to go. That piece has been a bit of a turn-off in this 2 year vetting process. West Point is a fine institution, but not the only one.
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I wholeheartedly agreeFly Boy. For the Marine Corps the percentage of officers commissioned by source is as follows:

Enlisted to Officer - 10%
Academy - 16%
NROTC - 16%
Platoon Leaders Course - 35%
Officer Candidate schoole - 25%

The Army numbers for 1999 show that only about 19% of officers graduated from WP. The rest come from AROTC, Direct Commissioning and OCS. I doubt its much different today.
 
kinnem said:
I wholeheartedly agreeFly Boy. For the Marine Corps the percentage of officers commissioned by source is as follows:

Enlisted to Officer - 10%
Academy - 16%
NROTC - 16%
Platoon Leaders Course - 35%
Officer Candidate schoole - 25%

The Army numbers for 1999 show that only about 19% of officers graduated from WP. The rest come from AROTC, Direct Commissioning and OCS. I doubt its much different today.
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It's not how you start, it's how you finish.
 
I understand your issues with the Admissions process. Unfortunately there are over a 1,000 GREAT candidates EACH year who do not get an offer. There are simply a limited number of slots. It is not that WP does not see value in your son - it is just a very, very competitive process. This is true in every top-tier college.
There are many great officers from a variety of commission sources. However, if your son really wants West Point I would advise considering applying again next year. The extra year of training and maturity will be valuable to him if he enters WP next year. My son is in the Class of 2015 and both his roommates had a year of college before they entered WP and they both said it was time well spent.
 
Sorry, Scoutpilot was flying.

There sure are a lot of sour grapes in here. Did someone get a letter from West Point that read "Your kid is worthless and you can take this application and cram it in your cramhole?" I didn't think so. So grow up a bit, huh? No one is suggesting your kid is anything but great. He or she just didn't come out on top of the heap. That's not condemnation. Life is a competition and losing teaches us just as much as winning.

While some folks feel like lecturing on leadership, they should note that while loyalty is a leadership trait, so is perseverance. Why someone would be upset at West Point for saying they could try again is beyond me. Maybe you'd prefer to be told to cram it and to never think of USMA again? I guess so.

Of course every parent thinks their kid is the best. I'm sure they're all great, but West Point has a finite number of slots. Just like Harvard or Yale or MIT or Bumschmuck College of Dental Hygiene. Not everyone can get in. It would be nice if every qualified applicant could get in and become a general. It would also be great if my dogs would feed themselves and manage my IRA, but alas we live in the stark, cold world of reality.

Attending West Point is like any other goal. If you want it, go for it. Fight as hard for it as it's worth to you. If you're happy with Plan B, good. USMA fulfilled their mission of choosing the candidates who looked the best. The process has proven its worth for 210 years. Do great candidates get left out? Sure. They do at every top institution. It's the luxury of having a great pool of applicants. Control what you can control...your packet, your patience, and what you do with the outcome.

Let's try to show a little maturity about this subject. Statements like "He will do it with or without West Point-with a school that recognizes his value" are baseless, childish, and make me wonder more than a little about whose pride was hurt more.
 
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scoutpilot said:
Sorry, Scoutpilot was flying.

There sure are a lot of sour grapes in here. Did someone get a letter from West Point that read "Your kid is worthless and you can take this application and cram it in your cramhole?" I didn't think so. So grow up a bit, huh? No one is suggesting your kid is anything but great. He or she just didn't come out on top of the heap. That's not condemnation. Life is a competition and losing teaches us just as much as winning.

While some folks feel like lecturing on leadership, they should note that while loyalty is a leadership trait, so is perseverance. Why someone would be upset at West Point for saying they could try again is beyond me. Maybe you'd prefer to be told to cram it and to never think of USMA again? I guess so.

Of course every parent thinks their kid is the best. I'm sure they're all great, but West Point has a finite number of slots. Just like Harvard or Yale or MIT or Bumschmuck College of Dental Hygiene. Not everyone can get in. It would be nice if every qualified applicant could get in and become a general. It would also be great if my dogs would feed themselves and manage my IRA, but alas we live in the stark, cold world of reality.

Attending West Point is like any other goal. If you want it, go for it. Fight as hard for it as it's worth to you. If you're happy with Plan B, good. USMA fulfilled their mission of choosing the candidates who looked the best. The process has proven its worth for 210 years. Do great candidates get left out? Sure. They do at every top institution. It's the luxury of having a great pool of applicants. Control what you can control...your packet, your patience, and what you do with the outcome.

Let's try to show a little maturity about this subject. Statements like "He will do it with or without West Point-with a school that recognizes his value" are baseless, childish, and make me wonder more than a little about whose pride was hurt more.
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I wish there was a 'clap' smilie.

May I add that WP's hands are tied, to an extent, in who they offer appts to by Title X of the US Code.

They HAVE to admit a P-Nom if qualified -no matter if there is a higher WCS anywhere else on the list. So before too many fingers are pointed at big bad WP, don't forget that the Federal Gov't and the MOC's play a role in who gets an appt.
Even on a competitive slate, WP just doesn't pick the vacancy winner willy-nilly.
It's no secret how it is done.
The candidate with the highest WCS wins.
Who is responsible for their WCS - the candidate.
That is not meant to be snotty but please don't blame WP if your WCS is one point below the vacancy winner. Who knows if one more point on the ACT, or an A in X class instead of a B, or completing your Eagle Scout etc etc etc would have made the difference.

The admissions folks at WP are wonderful people. They are human. They do not enjoy telling any candidate that they will not be receiving an appt. But there is not much they can do with a candidate without a nom. or with this small class, a non-vacancy winner.
There's that Title X again - the Corps size is to be 4400. Low attrition has made it a challenge to keep the Corps that size. But low attrition also tells me that the Admissions Dept knows what they are doing.
 
buff81 said:
. . . It's no secret how it is done.
The candidate with the highest WCS wins . . .
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I respectfully disagree. I will say in most cases the candidate with the highest WCS wins but not 100%.

I don't sit on the admissions committee, but the admissions database provides enough information to make an educated estimate.

I know my sample size is small, but since I worked with many candidates from my state I feel strong that two candidates, IN MY OPINION, probably did not have the higest WCS within their category to win their appointments.
 
Son hasn't received anything from WP beyond "send us your 7th semester." No NWL letter, no nothing. Saw on the forum another candidate got accepted from our congressional district.

Good news or bad news coming?

T's gds
 
buff81 said:
That is not meant to be snotty but please don't blame WP if your WCS is one point below the vacancy winner.
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This is not meant to be snotty either, but who do you blame when the WCS is 50 points higher than the vacancy winner, only to find out that race/ethnicity/diversity goals played a part in the selection?
 
scottgd said:
Son hasn't received anything from WP beyond "send us your 7th semester." No NWL letter, no nothing. Saw on the forum another candidate got accepted from our congressional district.

Good news or bad news coming?

T's gds
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not enough information.

Another candidate could have gotten accepted with other nomination (i.e. senatorial, service connected, and etc). If so, it could be a good news for your DS as one less qualified competitor in his congressional district.
 
Luigi59 said:
This is not meant to be snotty either, but who do you blame when the WCS is 50 points higher than the vacancy winner, only to find out that race/ethnicity/diversity goals played a part in the selection?
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Congress
 
Luigi59 said:
This is not meant to be snotty either, but who do you blame when the WCS is 50 points higher than the vacancy winner, only to find out that race/ethnicity/diversity goals played a part in the selection?
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The liberal establishment for ingraining the idea of diversity as endstate.

Next question.
 
Again, in a perfect world there would be an easy explanation for the NWL selection process. I have had first hand experience - my son applied last year to the USMA, made it all the way to April and was then informed that he was QNS! Did it sting? ABSOLUTELY!!! Last year my sons file was very strong - in fact, he obtained 3 nominations (1 from each MOC). The last MOC even commented to my son that it was very uncommon for them to award a nomination to a candidate that already obtained 2 nominations, but they wanted to give my son the best chance of obtaining an appointment.
When he was notified that he was QNS, a representative from each MOC contacted him to let him know how stunned they were that he did not receive an appointment. As parents, we couldn't understand how this could have happened. We then spoke with a friend, formerly in the military, and knowledgable about the process. We discovered that in some cases, the NWL was used balance out the class! The USMA wants to keep certain percentages of women, minorities, athletes.... at West Point, so they sometimes choose candidates with lower WCS scores to obtain those acceptable percentages.
With everything I have heard about this years class being smaller, the situation we experienced last year is bound to occur again this year to many qualified candidates. There is no 100% perfect solution. Just remember, if your DS/DD gets notified that they are placed on the NWL and then are notified they are QNS, the candidates receiving appointments are also good candidates! They would not have made it that far in the process if they were not!
We, like many, are now waiting - hoping that West Point selects our perfect son! :thumb:
 
Luigi59 said:
This is not meant to be snotty either, but who do you blame when the WCS is 50 points higher than the vacancy winner, only to find out that race/ethnicity/diversity goals played a part in the selection?
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1st, you blame God because he made different people with different life experiences and perspectives;

2nd, you blame WP because they see diversity as an advantage in the Officer Corps.
 
Luigi59 said:
This is not meant to be snotty either, but who do you blame when the WCS is 50 points higher than the vacancy winner, only to find out that race/ethnicity/diversity goals played a part in the selection?
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It's hard to say unless you can divulge the details of a specific case where that happened off a competitive slate.

Could definitely happen off a P-nom slate.
 
MemberLG said:
I respectfully disagree. I will say in most cases the candidate with the highest WCS wins but not 100%.

I don't sit on the admissions committee, but the admissions database provides enough information to make an educated estimate.

I know my sample size is small, but since I worked with many candidates from my state I feel strong that two candidates, IN MY OPINION, probably did not have the higest WCS within their category to win their appointments.
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I think it's hard to determine who has the highest WCS based on the info that we are given on the database. We don't how many points are given for each specific item. There are bonus points given for certain things and those may very well skew who we think has the highest WCS.

Call me naive - but I believe in the process and if WP says the highest WCS wins the vacancy off a competitive slate, then i believe that the highest WCS wins.

Maybe BigNick can chime in here since he has served on the Admissions Committee.
 
buff81 said:
I wish there was a 'clap' smilie.


The candidate with the highest WCS wins.
Who is responsible for their WCS - the candidate.


Does geography play in the decision? In other words, all things being equal (ratios filled etc.), would they choose multiple candidates from same district if their WCS is highest?
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