Question about grad school

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by 2020Intel, Nov 30, 2015.

  1. 2020Intel

    2020Intel Member

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    I've been reading threads about grad school slots and now I have a question: when going to school under a grad slot, since the AF is presumably paying or you got a scholarship, do you still get your normal military pay (like base pay, bah, etc)? Or do you only get some of it? Thanks
     
  2. flieger83

    flieger83 Super Moderator Moderator

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    Yep!

    Steve
    USAFA ALO
    USAFA '83
     
  3. JestFutureFalcon

    JestFutureFalcon Member

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    Depends on what job. I have these little brochures about a few of the jobs in the medical field. Off the top of my head I remember that nursing was one where you wouldn't get payed, and your time in school wouldn't count off your commitment like ,say, a physical therapist. What kind of grad school are you thinking about?
     
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    jest,

    I think you are confusing that with ROTC. USAFA grads are considered ADAF the minute they commission, thus flieger is correct.
    ~ ROTC grads are different. They do not get paid until they report. There are several types of ED, and some types will not pay for your degree nor pay you, but that is not the deal as far as I know for USAFA grads because they are ADAF immediately.

    As a USAFA grad they would have to agree to release them for ED instead of sending them to their 1st assignment.

    2020,

    That is soooooo far down the pipeline for you it could change due to the needs of the AF. That and getting a grad school slot is very competitive. Right now my advice to you would be get into USAFA, and keep all of your options open...iows, don't get tunnel vision.
    ~ Think about how much you have changed from the time you were in 8th grade until now with limited exposure to different fields of study. Imagine what it will be like over the next 4 years. I am not saying you will change your mind, just saying that going to grad school is letter M and you are only at A, if that because you have yet to even attend.
     
  5. fencersmother

    fencersmother Founding Member

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    2020, Fleiger and PIMA are correct....for now.

    By the time you get through, presumably in 2020 (four years from now), things will undoubtedly be different.

    So, concentrate on what you need to do, NOW, now what may or may not happen almost a decade away.
     
  6. JestFutureFalcon

    JestFutureFalcon Member

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    No I picked up the things while at USAFASS during their career fair. I'll try to find them and take a pic later. Idk where they are now
     
  7. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Jest,

    I get what you are saying, but that brochure maybe the overall options. USAF may have created 1 brochure for every way you can commission into the AF. Are you sure that was just for USAFA grads and not for every way to commission?

    If you look at the Law degree option, there should be 3 different types.
    ~ Chances of getting the best of the 3 options is lower than chances of getting an eNJPPT slot. If I recall, the statistical chance is @5% or less for the guaranteed JAG (best of the 3)

    I don't know anyone here or even in the AF as a USAFA grad that they did not pick up the dime and pay base pay + BAH.
    ~ Hornet, CC's DS, Eagle, etc quickly come to mind.
    ~~ Hornet and CCs DS did the 3 yr fellowship at RAND (ph.d) and they got paid as an O1/O2 the entire time.
    ~ We have had friends as O5s that were sent to Harvard to get their ph.d, and the AF picked up the dime.

    Their job was to be a student. That cost to attend runs concurrent with their ADSO.

    I get when you say nursing, but than I have to ask why you would go to USAFA and not take the AFROTC scholarship to attend a college with a strong nursing degree? Plus, according to Ag (long ago poster) his DD commissioned AFROTC in 13, and when she showed up to Brooks on day 1, was told for the AF, that field is going to be converting over to more contracted than ADAF officers.
    ~~ I believe he said she was told that eventually it will be 1 out of every 4 will be ADAF, the other 3 will be contracted.

    As fencer and I stated things change, and can change at anytime. AG's DD went AFROTC scholarship. At the time she applied as a HS senior, the AF considered that career field critical manning, and handed out scholarships for that major. They also basically guaranteed SFT selection. 4 yrs later when she commissioned Big Blue decided to go in a different direction.
    ~ Just like they offered one year AFROTC scholarships if you promised to go CSO or ABM, but not the next year.

    Or like IFS...now called IFT.
    ~ Commissioned in 2011 and everyone went to IFS. 2012 if you had a PPL, you can get waived.
    ~ Commissioned in 14 it was called IFS. Commission now it is IFT
    ~~ Initial Flight Screening (IFS) had a higher wash out rate...it was a SCREENING. Now it is called Training and the wash out rate has dropped. The mission has changed...one was to weed out prior to UPT, the other is to prepare the students for UPT.

    We are getting in the weeds now. In the end, I still stand by my earlier remark...it is fine to think about the options, but this is so far down the road that as an 18 year old applying for an SA, I question why?
    ~ My Mom had the best saying when I was young and planning/plotting my life....why are you wishing your life away?
    ~~ That is what anyone planning what they will do 4 years from now, besides being ADAF is doing impo.

    Get the appointment, and after that work towards your commissioning. As a C3C start looking towards after commissioning.
    ~ I am not a betting person, but I will bet my beloved Myrtle (my dog) that 100% of every cadet that enter on I Day, enter with the belief they will at least make it through BCT and most likely commission 4 years later, however, that is not realistic.
    ~ Think of attending any SA like another cliche. As a sr. in HS you are the big fish in a small pond...next yr you will be the small fish in a big lake. As a C1C you will be the big fish in the lake. As a newly minted O1 you will be the small fish in an Ocean. With every step the competition pool becomes bigger, and their stats are just as stellar.
    ~ Almost everyone will have that same resume with stellar stats on I DAY. You are no longer the shining star! The slate is wiped clean everytime you enter the new pool of water.
    ~~ You are no longer a special snowflake compared to your peers. You are fighting all over again.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2015
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  8. JestFutureFalcon

    JestFutureFalcon Member

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  9. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Notice what they said regarding pay.
    You will RESIGN your commission as ADAF and go Reserves (IRR)

    It does not say that you would go back ADAF, just that you owe 8 yrs. That is common for IRR.

    Again, we are getting in the weeds, and I reiterate why would you go to USAFA for nursing? USAFA is known as the little engineering school in the Rockies.
    ~ I have several friends that are nurses...that is an undergrad degree. They do clinicals as an undergrad.

    All in all, yes, there is that option, but you will not be ADAF. Just me and my opinion, but I believe the OP when they said grad school was not looking at nursing. Nor, do I think anyone here (flieger, fencer and myself) were looking for the insanely rare exceptions, ones that you would be required to resign your commission or 3 out of 900 commissioned ....0.003%
     
  10. NavyHoops

    NavyHoops Moderator

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    Was reading the documents that Jest posted. I see they mention spots for Nursing (which it sounds like they end up as NPs in the end) and Physical Therapy, has USAFA authorized anyone to go this path in recent years? If they have, any Cadets go this path?
     
  11. MN-Dad-2016

    MN-Dad-2016 Member

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    In the medical field, the path is always HPSP (Health Professions Scholarship Program). It doesn't matter which branch or the undergrad path. Exception: entering the medical field AFTER you are a doctor or MD to shed debt but the deal isn't as good. HPSP pays around a $25K/year in stipend. It doesn't matter what the cost of living is (North Dakota or the Bay area). They pay for books, tuition, fees, and a school sponsored medical insurance. You pay taxes on the $25K Stipend. In order to get a HPSP, you have to be a 2nd lieutenant. Our DD is HPSP for dental (she graduated at the UofMN). DS at USAFA will be HPSP too for MD. They will be paid the same. It's a year for a year commitment over and above UG (DS case; USAFA). Meaning, there are 3 and 4 year HPSP slots for dental and MD. Your payback is a year for a year. Meaning if you take the three year HPSP, then your payback is three years. But you dodge massive debt. For Academy slots, only 4 years are offered. For non-academy HPSP slots, AF is harder to get into. Army goes FIFO while AF racks and stacks (totem pole ranking). Meaning once you get into a dental of MD program for Army (NON-Academy path) and you have your paperwork done, you get in. For the AF, expect the average incoming students to be much more competitive. I don't know about the Navy.

    When you exit and enter as an MD or Dentist, you go from a 2nd lieutenant to a captain. As you say, time and school doesn't count for years of service. Re: income as a dentist, you get paid below market wages (around $73K year one and 2). It goes up to the low $90K range for year 3 and 4. And it goes up from there (signing bonuses etc).

    IMHO, it's THE best deal. DD is at a dental college where tuition, fees, and books cost the mid $75K per year! Add in the stipend and Uncle is paying $100K/year. Yes. Some students are graduating dentistry with $400K in debt @ 6.8% accruing interest. Meanwhile DD will have a guaranteed job with zero debt. I suspect she will make it a career. Uncle is extremely generous because a fraction of the dental students want to enter the military and be apart of serving our country. Therefore they have to make it incredibly attractive for the financially challenged students who have not figured out debt is bad. Mysteriously when my DD's dental student friends start to open their loan payments in the coming semesters, many admit they should have considered the opportunity but it is too late. So getting into HPSP is "fairly" easy. IMHO, a smarter path than going the (risky) Academy route. I say risky because there is competition and Academy life places additional obstacles for become a MD or dentist. BUT, those who survived the weeding process for MD's this year are getting some incredible schools. It seems medical students and Academy grads get a close look. USAFA offers experiences that cannot be matched by vanilla biology major clones across the nation. So USAFA offers an edge (as well as some liabilities) getting into medical schools.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2015
  12. JestFutureFalcon

    JestFutureFalcon Member

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    Yeah I was thinking "why USAFA for nursing?" But I was just kind of using it as an example for saying that it depends on what career you want to go into. I'm not gonna act like I know all about it, but the nursing example was just to show that sometimes you won't have officer pay. Idk how other fields work cuz I was too dumb to grab all the pamphlets at the career fair lol
     
  13. 6KDogwhistle

    6KDogwhistle Member

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    The best advice, as many have said on here, is to just wait and see what the ROE is when it's time. Concentrate on the next 4 years and get through the program first. Things change constantly with Uncle Sam, especially when it comes to $$$. For now, I think Pima has the correct gouge. Now, if I had a penny for every change that Uncle Sam has made.....
     
  14. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    Yea, when you consider that only approximately 10% of academy grads get to go directly to grad school. And a good percentage of them are engineering majors who will go to AFIT, which is an Air Force grad school at wright Paterson afb, you realize how competitive it really is.

    So, worry about the more important thing.
    1. Get accepted and receive an appointment to the academy.
    2. Make it through basic training and decide you actually want to stay at the academy.
    3. Make it through the first 2 years and commit to the academy and Air Force.
    4. Be in the top 5-10% of your class, and be in the top percent or two of your department that you are majoring in.
    5. Graduate from the academy and apply to grad schools.

    Now, you can read plenty of mine, and others past posts, about grad school. You'll learn a lot and probably answer all your questions. But I don't and won't answer questions about things are outside of an individual's control and can't help them. So, until you make it to around step 3 listed above, grad school shouldn't even be a concern of yours. If it is....... WHY? I know you're not applying to the academy just for the free education. So why worry about something that is beyond the more immediate concerns?

    And for what it's worth, just about every single person who receives an appointment and makes it to basic training, says it's something they wanted. Yet, the majority who apply, will not make it to step 1 above. They won't receive an appointment. Many won't make it through basic training, or they'll quit shortly after in step 2. And by the time step 3 comes along, a bunch more will quit. Believe it or not, until you're actually there at the academy, you have absolutely no idea what you're getting into.

    So, once you've actually made it through to your 3rd year, what you want today or are interested in now, really isn't important. Worry about the things you can affect. Not the things you can't.

    I will give one bit of advice. If you truly are interested in grad school, please consider your major at the academy. For instance.... My son majored in behavioral science. The problem with that, which he knew going in, is that there's usually only B.S. And PhD programs. Very few masters programs. I originally majored in psychology. ( old school version of behavioral science). I changed to degrees in electronic engineering and another in computer science because jobs and advanced education isn't that easy in behavioral science. My son knew his only chance was to be the best in his department and that the RAND PhD was probably going to be his only shot. He busted his a$$ and was #1 in the department and got RAND. But consider majors in other disciplines when considering a grad school slot directly out of the academy.

    Best of luck.
     
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  15. lsredmond

    lsredmond Member

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    My DD is a 2015 grad and was chosen to go to grad school from the chemistry department. She is attending grad school at the university of florida this year. It is a one year program and then she is off to UPT. She gets her 2Lt pay as well as BAH. The schooling is paid for by the Air Force. In August, she will have her master's degree.

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