Question about Principal + 1-2 non-principal nominations

Discussion in 'Nominations' started by ca2midwestmom, Dec 18, 2013.

  1. ca2midwestmom

    ca2midwestmom Member

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    So my question is aimed at those who have served on MOC boards.... What is the logic behind 3 MOC giving 1 candidate a Principal nom + 1-2 non-principal noms to the same SA? If a candidate is 3Q, with or without a LOA, having a Principal nom guarantees appointment, right? If MOC #1 gives that candidate a Principal nom, why would MOC #2 & #3 give the same candidate a non-principal nom? Assuming there are plenty of competitive candidates in the state/ congressional district, I'm just wondering what the logic is....
     
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Simple.

    Some MoCs do not talk. IOW Sen A. does not have a clue on what Sen. B does from a nom. purpose, i.e. principal, ranked, competitive. They also do not know the names of the candidates on the other MoC's slates because they act individually from this perspective when nominating.

    In a competitive state where the MoCs do talk, I doubt you would find this occurring. Maybe one or two slip through, because of clerical issues. I.E. Cong. sends their list on Dec. 1st, but not processed until the 5th. Meanwhile, Sen A's staff have placed their list of noms received, and look at candidates without a nom. on the 4th. That person may show up on 2 slates.

    Or they may say, Sen A. has 2 slates, but they all agree that since he is the only one with 2 slates, that the 1st slate will be non-duplicate, but his choice to decide if he wants to submit duplicates for the 2nd slate.
    ~~~ Remember every MOC can have 5 at one time charged, so there will be yrs with 2 slates for some MOCs, while other MOCs may only have 1 slate available.

    OBTW, I can be 1000% wrong, but to me this just makes common sense.
     
  3. bearhunter66

    bearhunter66 Member

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    I am not an expert. Take it FWIW.

    Each MOC can handle appointments in way they wish. They may or may not coordinate with other MOCs. They may or may not do principal noms. They may or may not support nomination requests to multiple academies. They may or may not interview, etc...

    500+ MOCs each handling noms their own way will not result in an ordered/logical process.

    I am aware that some MOCs do coordinate so they maximize the number of nominations/candidates for a particular geography that get placed in front of the Academies. It may be easier for Senators to so this vs a Senator trying to coordinate with all the House members for a given state. Some MOCs ask that applicants notify them if they get a nom from another MOC so their submission slate can then be adjusted.

    Back up noms when a MOC does use the primary system make sense to me because the top applicant may not take an Academy appointment (i.e. they pick up an ROTC scholarship to ABC Ivy League and would prefer to serve in that manner).

    I can't respond to your question about 3Q with a primary nom.
     
  4. ca2midwestmom

    ca2midwestmom Member

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    I understand the logic if the MOC don't talk. That doesn't appear to be the case. All 3 MOC held interviews 3 weeks apart (first of Oct; end of Oct; middle of Nov). Noms for MOC #1 were revealed before MOC #2 interviews; MOC #2 noms were revealed before MOC #3 interviews, etc. MOC #1 is the only one that gave principal noms.

    So if MOC #2 or #3 knew that MOC #1 gave a Principal nom to candidate Jones, why would MOC #3 give him/her a 2nd nom (non-principal)?

    I say they knew (in particular MOC #3) because in DS's interview with MOC #3, he was asked if he'd be happy going to USMA (nom from MOC #1), even though USNA was his #1 choice. MOC #3 gave him a nom to USNA (and listed only 2 candidates to the USMA slate).

    So I'm really just curious...and thankful DS received the noms he did.
     
  5. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Although it was not clear via the OP, there is one more reason. Many MOCs ask the candidate to rack and stack their SA choices. Typically their top 3 choices.

    A candidate may apply to Sen A. asking for USNA as number 1. They than place AFA on Sen B's list as number 1. For the Cong. they place USMA as number 1.

    Thus, the candidate could get a prin. from 1 MoC for 1 SA, and the other 2 noms could be to different SAs. In essence they could get 3 noms, including 1 principal, but not all to the same SA.

    This also ties into why they do this because now look at the candidate.
    Candidate Smith has an LOA to USMA, so the 1 MOC where they place USMA as their number 1 choice they than give him just a nom. because of the LOA, and prin to someone else.
    Equaling into an appointment, yet, not necessarily charged to their account.

    During this process, Candidate Smith now gets a Prin. to USNA from a different MOC. They now have 2 appointments to two different SAs. Come Jan. the AFA offers them an apptmt to the AFA using the WCS from the third MOC.

    Obviously, they can't attend all 3, and 2 of those will be thrown back in the pool to be charged to the MOCs and the SA that they were given a nom.
     
  6. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Quick question ca2,

    How many Congressional districts do you have in your state?

    I think it might be easier to explain why from explaining it including Congressional slates.

    I could literally take one slate of 10, and illustrate how 9 out of the ten on a Sen. slate will win an appointment without ever going to the national pool.

    Going back a bit, the fact that an MOC has only 2 on their slate for USMA says this is not a competitive state. The MOC may have their own standards regarding stats for submitting the slate. IOW they may not believe that because they can submit 10 names is right. They maybe an SA grad, or rely on their nom committee when they say we have 10 slots, but with their stats, "I just can't see them making it through the SA", so let's submit only two.

    Believe it or not there are MOCs that have not submitted a slate in yrs. There is a really old thread here that had the names of MOCs with 5 charges available, and how they have not submitted any slate in yrs.

    When I joined here, there was a candidate that was new here too. He was from Terre Haute. He got the nom to AFA, but was confused if he read the announcement correct. Was it prin or the slate. It was only his name. Turned out that for his MOC he was the only person on the slate submitted.

    By law that is the MOCs choice, and if you really want to wrap your cranium around why, you will have to ask each MOC what their philosophy is regarding submitting a slate.
    ~~~ Fill it up no matter their stats, or be competitive and submit only those that they believe meet the bar.

    JMPO, that and $1.86 will buy you a tall Starbucks reg. coffee!:shake:
     
  7. ca2midwestmom

    ca2midwestmom Member

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    All good points Pima. After a quick Google search, there are 4 congressional districts in our state, apparently that number is on the lower end than the majority of other states. That said, the example I was trying to use was:

    Candidate Miller listed AFA ONLY for all three MOC.
    MOC #1 gave Miller Principal nom (~75 candidates applied/interviewed)
    MOC #2 gave Miller non-principal nom (~75 candidates applied/interviewed)
    MOC #3 gave Miller non-principal nom (~35 candidates applied/interviewed)

    It's possible the MOC didn't talk/coordinate, but I think MOC #1 & #3 did. Oh well...
     

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