Question-Army ROTC capping tution and costs at $35,000 per year?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Wilco, Apr 9, 2015.

  1. Wilco

    Wilco Member

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    1. WAYNE said:
      1. Those ARE local schools for us, and both are battalion level (meaning no travel to PT in the AM)... Our concern is that financially speaking, it would be less expensive to send two qualified cadets to less expensive colleges than one possibly more qualified cadet (higher on order of medit list) to a much more expensive school. Previously they maxed the 4 yr at $20K do do they now have the same internal rule that benefits applicants to lower tuition schools that provide good but not the recognized "best" institutions? We are talking about two of the most distinguished Engineering colleges in America. Is it a money decision as well for the Board?
        • Click to expand...
      No. Some of the most competitive candidates going before boards 1 & 2 were those going private engineering schools like Rose Hulman....and that is a very prestigeous school for STEM disciplines and VERY expensive. The draw there though is while ROTC's $35K max per annum doesn't come close to cover the full cost of tuition, Rose Hulman (and several similiar schools) will cover the rest of the cost for scholarship cadets.
    • ca2midwestmom Member
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      WAYNE said:
      My DD was accepted at both his West coast choices, UCLA & USC, we have been patiently waiting (and I have been lurking on this forum since it was created) but we are concerned about timing. It seems most of you are from the Midwest, I was wondering if it made any difference whether your choices were more expensive or smaller institutions, or whether choosing battalion level campuses made any difference either?
      Click to expand...
      Congrats to your DS (dear son) on gaining acceptance to two very selective CA schools. Did he get his ROTC application in before the first or second board? If not, and he's only being reviewed by the 3rd board, my understanding is that -- (1) depending on how many candidates already accepted or were awarded scholarships to those two schools will influence whether your DS can receive one at UCLA/USC, and (2) the 3rd board generally gives out fewer 4 yr and more 3 yr scholarships based on $$ left over after the first two boards. The first board gives out more 4 yr scholarships to up to 3 schools on a candidates application list. By the third board, a scholarship winner may only receive an offer to 1 or 2 schools, and not necessarily the first ones on his list. (So for those getting ready to apply for the next scholarship cycle, it's in your best interest to get your application done in time for the 1st board.)

      Good luck to your DS as well as everyone else still waiting for results!
      Proud Mom of DS, KS-03
      USMA Class of 2018

    • Wilco Member
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      MRSOC said:
      No. Some of the most competitive candidates going before boards 1 & 2 were those going private engineering schools like Rose Hulman....and that is a very prestigeous school for STEM disciplines and VERY expensive. The draw there though is while ROTC's $35K max per annum doesn't come close to cover the full cost of tuition, Rose Hulman (and several similiar schools) will cover the rest of the cost for scholarship cadets.
      Click to expand...
      Where did you find that Army ROTC caps costs at $35,000 annually for private colleges? That is the first time I have ever heard of that for national winners, and certainly important to know. Thanks.

    • Jcleppe Member
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      Wilco said:
      Where did you find that Army ROTC caps costs at $35,000 annually for private colleges? That is the first time I have ever heard of that for national winners, and certainly important to know. Thanks.
      Click to expand...
      I have never heard of a cap for AROTC Scholarships, unless something has recently changed I do not believe there is a cap. No cadet with a scholarship to say, Stanford, MIT, or other such higher priced schools have ever mentioned a cap or the need to make up any difference.

    • Iowa 73 Miner
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      MRSOC said:
      while ROTC's $35K max per annum doesn't come close to cover the full cost of tuition
      Click to expand...
      Not true. There is no cap. Covering $48,093 for my D.S.
      Proud Father

    • Nazdad5 Member
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      Jcleppe said:
      I have never heard of a cap for AROTC Scholarships, unless something has recently changed I do not believe there is a cap. No cadet with a scholarship to say, Stanford, MIT, or other such higher priced schools have ever mentioned a cap or the need to make up any difference.
      Click to expand...
      DS's AROTC scholarship has covered his $47,000+/per year tuition.

    • MRSOC New Member
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      Jcleppe said:
      I have never heard of a cap for AROTC Scholarships, unless something has recently changed I do not believe there is a cap. No cadet with a scholarship to say, Stanford, MIT, or other such higher priced schools have ever mentioned a cap or the need to make up any difference.
      Click to expand...
      that's why you see "valued up to $35K" HOWEVER many schools do cover the rest with additional grants/scholarships. We had that discussion with the PMS at the school my daughter interviewed. It's not a 100% golden ticket.
      Last edited: Today at 4:03 PM

    • WAYNE New Member
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      It seems that the information varies depending on who you ask. We verified with the Army adjutant at USC that is is FULL coverage, but that still doesn't mean that the selection committee doesn't take cost into account when making their decision. As far as timing goes, his AI told him that it didn't matter which board he was boarded by because qualification and the OML didn't change from board to board, but many of you say differently.

    • Jcleppe Member
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      MRSOC said:
      that's why you see "valued up to $35K" HOWEVER many schools do cover the rest with additional grants/scholarships. We had that discussion with the PMS at the school my daughter interviewed. It's not a 100% golden ticket.
      Click to expand...
      I think the PMS may be mistaken about the 35K. The official description for the Scholarship states Full Tuition, there is no limit listed or mentioned. When the tuition statements come from the university it shows a third party transfer for the entire tuition balance, there is not a cut off at 35K. That's the way the statements have been for the 7 years we have had sons in AROTC with scholarships. Whether some schools lower their tuition cost to the Army would be something that is dependent on the school.

      Just curious, where did you see "valued up to 35K"
      Last edited: 46 minutes ago

    • StowieJ Member
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      WAYNE said:
      It seems that the information varies depending on who you ask. We verified with the Army adjutant at USC that is is FULL coverage, but that still doesn't mean that the selection committee doesn't take cost into account when making their decision. As far as timing goes, his AI told him that it didn't matter which board he was boarded by because qualification and the OML didn't change from board to board, but many of you say differently.
      Click to expand...
      From what I know from this forum, the boards should all rate applicants on the same grounds, and no matter what board you are rated at, you will get the same OML score. But after the boards the threshold for scholarship awardees changes, which the third round typically being the lowest threshold. At the same time, first board awardees are typically receiving higher valued scholarships, (this year they were all 4 year,) whereas the later ones had 3 year AD as well as 4 year.

      Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

    • Jcleppe Member
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      StowieJ said:
      From what I know from this forum, the boards should all rate applicants on the same grounds, and no matter what board you are rated at, you will get the same OML score. But after the boards the threshold for scholarship awardees changes, which the third round typically being the lowest threshold. At the same time, first board awardees are typically receiving higher valued scholarships, (this year they were all 4 year,) whereas the later ones had 3 year AD as well as 4 year.

      Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
      Click to expand...
      Just remember, while an applicants score will remain the same for each board, their position on the OML could change for each board.

      Example:
      If an applicant does not receive an offer from the first board and they are ranked say 100 on the list of those remaining, by the time the next board comes along there will be many more new applicants. These applicants will be scored and placed on the new OML. The cadet that was at 100 may now be farther down the list depending on the scores of the newer applicants. The same will happen after the second board. By the time the third board rolls around everyone is set on the final OML.
    • [​IMG]
      Iowa 73 Miner
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      MRSOC said:
      that's why you see "valued up to $35K" HOWEVER many schools do cover the rest with additional grants/scholarships. We had that discussion with the PMS at the school my daughter interviewed. It's not a 100% golden ticket.
      Click to expand...
      Again, not correct. I have the scholarship statement from my DS school, and the Army is paying $48,093 this year.
      Proud Father

    • StowieJ Member
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      I too remember something about a 35k limit. I also remember something about schools picking up the other part. This is a vague memory, but I do remember reading it, can't say where though.

      Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
     
  2. Wilco

    Wilco Member

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    I no doubt did this wrong but attempted to create a new thread on the discussion of claims by some posters that Army ROTC has a $35,000 per year cap on tuition and costs for colleges. Old thread was under AROTC and moved it here. Hopefully some PMS or ROOs can add official knowledge. Consensus by those with first hand experience, in paying the bills at expensive private colleges, is they have never been advised or aware of any such cap; or that the schools are picking up the difference over $35,000.
     
  3. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Taken from the Goarmy.com site regarding Scholarships.

    ARMY ROTC SCHOLARSHIPS

    Whether you're a college-bound high school student or already attending a college or university, Army ROTC has scholarships available. Scholarships are awarded based on a student's merit and grades, not financial need.

    Army ROTC scholarships consist of:

    • Two-, three-, and four-year scholarship options based on the time remaining to complete your degree
    • Full-tuition scholarships
    • The option for room and board in place of tuition, if you should qualify
    • Additional allowances for books and fees

    Also:

    WHAT KINDS OF SCHOLARSHIPS ARE AVAILABLE IN ARMY ROTC? ARE ANY OF THE SCHOLARSHIPS RETROACTIVE?
    Army ROTC offers two-, three- and four-year scholarships, which pay full tuition and fees, include a separate allowance for books, and a monthly stipend of up to $5,000 a year. Army ROTC scholarships are not retroactive.
     
  4. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    This quote is from a couple years ago but still relevant to the discussion. Clarksonarmy is a current ROO.

     
  5. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    I checked the AFROTC scholarship web site, thinking the people making the $35K claims were getting the scholarships confused, but even type 1 AFROTC scholarships have no upper limits according to the site. I think someone has been misinformed but I'm confident ClarksonArmy or someone more official than I will chime in here.
     
  6. cb7893

    cb7893 Member

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    If the DoD is paying any private college $48k/yr (actual cash money) for tuition, for an ROTC Mid/Cadet, they are chumps.

    I am sure there may be some exceptions, but once you strip out the children of Chinese Government Officials, Russian Oligarchs and Arab Sheiks, about 2% of the students at the Ivies, Stanford, CalTech, MIT, etc. pay full freight. I haven't looked at a grid lately, but they all use about the same math. They'll give you 5k/year for sitting third chair bassoon in the school orchestra.
     
  7. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    That's the big issue with ROTC Scholarships, they pay the universities the Rack Rate, no discounts. My son was eligible for a program called the WUE (Western Undergraduate Exchange) it allowed students to attend out of state schools that were part of the program at a rate closer to in state tuition. When the University caught on the the Army was paying the tuition through a scholarship, they suspended the WUE and charged the Army the back tuition. So yes, the DoD does pay the entire tuition, and your right, in my mind that does make them chumps. Have you ever seen what the airline ticket costs when a cadet flys somewhere, it's scary.

    This is one thing we have all tried to stress on this board, if a cadet drops or is disenrolled from ROTC after the grace period, they will owe the ROTC program the entire tuition that was paid at the full amount, no retroactive discount or scholarships are honored. The bill can be very high if a cadet attends one of those high priced schools.
     
  8. cb7893

    cb7893 Member

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    If this is the case, any mid/cadet who receives an xROTC scholarship should immediately contact the admission office of the designated school if they haven't already been accepted. I can't imagine it would hurt. The extra $10-40/yr collected in tuition vs. another candidate has got to be worth a few points on the ACT or 8 weeks saving humanity somewhere during summer vacation or a planned major in 19th Century Haitian Surrealist Poetry.

    Do they pay OOS tuition for OOS mids/cadets?
     
  9. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Yes, they pay the Out of State Tuition for cadets and mids.

    I would imagine that thought has passed through the minds of a few admission offices.
     
  10. WAYNE

    WAYNE Member

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    My original question was misconstrued, in that my concern was not whether they paid full tuition, I verified that with the Battalion Commander long ago. My question was whether the offers were made while keeping costs in mind.... the OML may be scored blindly, but does the cost of the applicants school of choice sway the decision in any way. This is the real world, money talks, and the Army costs are rising... if they can get two really good officers for the price of one, does that come into play at this level?
     
  11. cb7893

    cb7893 Member

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    Wayne,

    Hopefully, someone more qualified than I can answer your question.

    My suspicion is that the military, in general, wants to look like the country at large using many different demographic metrics. One of those metrics would be educational background within the Officer Corps. In the general population, some college graduates come from Directional State U in Smalltown USA and some come from Masters of the Universe University in Metropolis. There is also great value in the "defenders" and "defended" understanding and appreciating one another and that can't be done without actual face time.

    Whatever the case maybe, you should have a set of backup plans. If you are STEM person, don't think for minute that Calculus or Organic Chemistry or Fluid Dynamics work any different at Stanford than at Iowa State.
     
  12. Biker

    Biker Parent of AROTC Nurse Cadet

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    Unless you are with the board at CC, I think any answer to your question would be conjecture.
     
  13. cb7893

    cb7893 Member

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    No. It is suspicion, as I said.
     
  14. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    The board doesn't make the offers. The offers are made once the board scores all the candidates. The offers are made based on the scores, the schools on the list, and to some extent the cost. I say that because when an offer is made I'm assuming that cost (or some type of estimated average cost) is deducted from the bottom line. Cadet Command can't make so many offers that it's going to break the bank. So, they make offers until the proposed budget is met. I believe they take some risk and if every scholarship winner shows up in the fall fully qualified at the most expensive school they got an offer to I think they would be in trouble. Is anyone starting to see what a complicated process this truly is???
     
  15. Biker

    Biker Parent of AROTC Nurse Cadet

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    Sorry CB, my response was to Wayne.
     
  16. Vista123

    Vista123 Member

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    Son's sticker price tuition room and board is ~$60,000 per year (this is not a typo). ROTC kicks in full tuition and books & school kicks in room and board.

    After my son's interview w/ PMS (at another school that son did not choose) the PMS came out and asked if I had any questions. I specifically asked about this (because some of the schools my son listed had extremely high tuition price and some not). The PMS told me that tuition was not a factor for his scoring.

    Out of seven schools my son listed, the three choices he was granted were the three highest tuition schools.

    I dont know if the PMS was right or wrong. All I can report to you is what I asked, what the PMS answered, and what happened to my son.
     
  17. WAYNE

    WAYNE Member

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    Out of seven schools my son listed, the three choices he was granted were the three highest tuition schools.
    I dont know if the PMS was right or wrong. All I can report to you is what I asked, what the PMS answered, and what happened to my son.[/QUOTE]

    Thank you, that is EXACTLY the type of "information from experience" answer I was looking for. My DD's choices were ALL to expensive high end schools, and I have been worried that the military might consider that a negative when making their choices... as I stated, money has to be a concern at SOME level of the process, as there is likely to be many more "qualified" applicants than there are opportunities available.
     
  18. WAYNE

    WAYNE Member

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    Is anyone here on their second attempt for a 4yr scholarship, having not been chosen their first year out of HS, or having taken a year either away from school or simply trying to improve their chances by taking some extra community college classes to improve their testing scores.
    If my DS is not chosen because his application was not complete in time for the first two boards and he did not receive an offer, is he allowed to reapply for a second bite at the apple next year, or is this a one-time only opportunity?

    Just read a post on another thread that brought something to mind... Is anyone here likely to be accepted at a school that offers a more intensive 5 yr. degree (or 4.5 yr) and if so, do they know what the military's stance is on scholarships to those schools?
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2015
  19. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    The second "bite at the apple" is when he enrolls in Army ROTC and is offered the opportunity to compete for campus based scholarships. If he takes a year away, I believe he can reapply for the 4 year high school scholarship, but once he starts taking college courses post high school he will need to be in an Army ROTC Battalion to compete for a scholarship. Although what I just said isn't technically true (some programs may consider a student transferring in from a CC or an enlisted reservist with some college credit) in the current environment if you come late to the game you have almost no chance of getting a scholarship and you may not even have a shot at a contract. If I have 10 freshmen enrolled in the class and some kid from community college that tells me he will be coming next fall who am I going to give my one additional campus based scholarship to? Probably one of the kids I've just spent a semester and a half with, and not the kid that's an unknown quantity. I can't stress enough if an applicant wants to become an Army Officer they need to show up on campus and enroll in Army ROTC these days.
     
    Vista123 likes this.
  20. WAYNE

    WAYNE Member

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    Thank you. My concern is that my DS was acting upon information obtained from his HS AI who used to be a part of the USC Army ROTC team. Some of the information was either outdated, or just simply wrong, but in either case, having not received an offer after the second board, my DS called the battalion ROO to see if there was anything else he could do, and was informed that they had no record of my DS's application to either the school or the ROTC unit. After obtaining the information needed from my DS, he stated that after looking into it, he found that some records were misplaced (or some other lame excuse) but that in any case, that my DS will certainly be looked at during this final round. Last week he contacted my DS and asked for a copy of his acceptance letter, and asked if he intended to accept the offer for admission and still join the AROTC unit, which is difficult to answer, because it depends completely on whether he receives a full tuition scholarship or not. He would like nothing better than to attend USC, but our family cannot afford it, and if he cannot go there, he may as well simply reapply at the Military Academy where he was told he is more than qualified to attend. (He only wants to stay in-state because I am extremely ill and he wants to stay close in case he is needed for a short time so as to help his mom make final decisions for my "retirement".)
     

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