Question on weight requirements deadline

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by tabuc, Oct 1, 2012.

  1. tabuc

    tabuc Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    When is the deadline for new AFROTC non-scholarship cadets to meet weight requirements?

    Son exceeeded weight requirements by32lbs before joining. We read that scholarship cadets had until end of first year of school to meet weight standards, figured that went for non-scholarship cadets as well. Lost 12 lbs over summer. Started school in August and lost 5, just told if does not lose the other 20 by December 14 he is out. What?
     
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,807
    Likes Received:
    948
    Even as a non-scholarship cadet, he is still an AFROTC cadet. He must adhere to ALL the rules set forth by the AF. Think of it this way, as a non-scholarship cadet he attends PT in AF gear right? Why doesn't he attend PT wearing whatever he chooses? He does so because as a cadet that is the requirements set forth to be in AFROTC. He can't pick and choose which part of the AFROTC program that he will follow so he has the best outcome for him, and not the best outcome for the AF.

    Before you get wrapped up in the 20lb weight loss issue, when there is a weight issue they will tape him for his BMI. As he looses weight he is also probably creating muscle mass, which weighs much more than fat. He maybe just fine.

    I understand the fear and concern, but also realize that the unit is probably setting the bar for 1 yr from now...SFT selection. SFT/EA packets will be submitted after their fall semester C200 yr. They maybe putting the fear into him for motivation, and come Dec. they may accept that he is not within standards yet, but he is getting there and is on the right track.

    Finally, remember only a minority of cadets are scholarship, maybe 20%. However, they need to train 100% for the same goal. Commissioning. 100% of AFROTC grads will go AD, including non-scholarship cadets. 100% of grads MUST attend and graduate SFT to become a POC.

    FWIW, here's my advice:
    I don't know the BMI numbers, but have him find out what they are, and have him get taped. Use that % he needs to guide him, not the lbs. He has to acknowledge he has more muscle mass now, the scale does lie when it comes to the military!

    OBTW, Bullet my DH that served 20 yrs ADAF as a WSO, was taped every yr. He never was in what they call the "Big Boy" program. His body is just designed that he is hitting their weight limit, but he is not fat, he is muscle.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
  3. tabuc

    tabuc Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you for the reply. I don't mean to come across like he can take it easy and expect special consideration. He is a 4.0 gpa student, who stands 6'2" with size 13 feet, is 238 lbs. but doesn't look overweight. We thought he would be allowed the first year of school to attain the weight requirements. But you are right, we can also look at the BMI, etc. Am looking at getting him a personal trainer to help shed the weight as 20 lbs. in 2 months is possible, but tough.

    BYW, he is not allowed to wear AF gear in PT and has to wear his own clothes. He is not allowed to get his "blues" either until he makes weight. So he stands out like a sore thumb until then.

    Thanks again.
     
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,807
    Likes Received:
    948
    Did they tape him yet?

    Our 2 boys could not be more opposite if they tried when it comes to body weight. DS 1 is 5'10 150 lbs. DS2 is 6'3 ish. He wears a size 13 shoe and weighs 240 lbs., so I get what you are saying. That is why I am asking if they have taped him yet?

    DS1's frame is built to be a swimmer/TKD aka lanky. DS2's is FB linebacker aka bulky. There is nothing either can do regarding their body frame, it's genetics. Unfortunately for your DS, my DS2 and Bullet their frame is the way it is, one that works against them for the AF stds. DS1 could gain 30 lbs all in his stomach and he would be fine according to the AF. DS2 and Bullet could lose 30lbs and still not be at the bottom of their scale.

    He needs to realize that taping might be his AFROTC future for the next 4 yrs. as a cadet, and every yr he is ADAF.

    Our DS1 was taped every semester because he was too thin. He was flat out told if he lost 3-5 lbs at SFT, he would not graduate SFT. He would be medically dis-enrolled, his scholarship would be revoked. Believe it or not they also do it on the flip side regarding weight.

    It is just the AF standards. Get him taped now, a personal trainer is a wise decision because they know how to get him to meet the BMI standards. It will be one of the 1st things they will do as a trainer...taping him. They will create a program to lower his BMI, and won't worry about his weight per se. He needs to concern himself from a physical standpoint on his BMI, not his weight. I am guessing his frame will never be able to maintain their weight standards, however, if he works out his frame will be able to maintain the BMI standards.

    Also, I would think the personal trainer is a great idea for a couple of reasons.

    1. The det will see dedication and self-motivation. They may say let's give it 1 more semester.
    2. A personal trainer will make sure his form his correct for PT. The CFC, PT instructor will notice that he is doing the right form and not the easy way.
    ~~~ CFC's, and PT instructors are his 1st line of defense. There is one thing about not meeting the weight stds., another if you are not meeting them, but your form is perfect and the weight is coming down.

    Don't worry just yet about his weight.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
  5. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,544
    Likes Received:
    1,005
    I think you may have had a misunderstanding on the "first year". I understood it to be first semester (which normally ends around the end of the calendar year which may have contributed to a miscommunication?) Good luck to your DS. It will be hard as he both needs and doesn't need to the calories, but it is do-able.

    edit: Plan green salads for Thanksgiving Dinner.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
  6. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,807
    Likes Received:
    948
    kinnem picked up on something I missed. Yes, it is 1st semester as a non-scholarship cadet, because right now AFROTC is a 1 credit college course elective from an academic perspective. From an AFROTC perspective it is not the same.

    AFROTC contracted (scholarship C100) cadets don't have a yr. either. They have 1 semester. Come Dec. if they don't meet standards they are cut loose or could be placed on probation. It is not April/May when they end their freshman yr. aka 1 yr. It is semester to semester for 8 semesters. It is not yr to yr.

    I think they are actually confusing the "out" for contracted cadets with their premise. Scholarship cadets can walk away at the end of their 1st YR. with no penalty, i.e. no time owed, no harm/no foul, but like you said kinnem, if in Dec. they don't meet stds., their scholarship is at risk.
     
  7. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2010
    Messages:
    1,699
    Likes Received:
    451
    Don't mean to stray out of my area, but if he was Army non scholarship he would have until the start of junior year to meet the standards, because that is when we would be looking to contract him (unless we want to contract him sooner for SMP or campus based scholalrship). If a scholarship cadet doesn't meet the standards they have until the last day of the semester, or loose the scholarship. If they aren't scholarship we aren't paying them, so we're cheering them on, and encouraging them to work to meet the standards, not setting artificial deadlines and not letting them wear a uniform. Sounds like your cadet is working hard, and I'm sure he will meet the standard before "the deadline".
     
  8. tabuc

    tabuc Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2012
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    clarksonarmy, thanks for the response. That is what we were thinking, he is not on scholarship, is in his freshman year, not being paid, and doesn't need to decide to commit until summer after his sophomore year. That is why we were looking for something in print that explains details like that. Why would you want to discourage an intelligent, hard working kid? He was told by his Captain that he could get a waiver from the commander if doesn't meet weight/body fat requirment by December, but it would ruin his chances for getting a scholarship, and hurt his chances for getting commissiion spot??
     
  9. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,807
    Likes Received:
    948
    tabuc,
    That is what I was saying in my first response to your post. If he gets a waiver for next semester, it may impact him regarding SFT and this fact is being used as a motivation. i.e. " I understand the fear and concern, but also realize that the unit is probably setting the bar for 1 yr from now...SFT selection."

    Leave the scholarship alone for a second, and the commissioning aspect too.
    As a C200 they meet an EA/SFT board. Their packages are submitted right after fall semester sophomore yr. He can leave May 2014, but the command is making their decision regarding support way before that. I bet my beloved Myrtle right now every AFROTC command is starting to rack and stack their C200's for SFT. It is Oct 1st. 4-6 weeks into the fall semester, but still they are now looking at them very seriously in every aspect for the boards.

    If he is not selected for SFT, there is no C300 aka POC. There is NO commissioning. Basically come May 2014 it could be over with AFROTC because he was not selected. They made the commitment decision for him. In this case he didn't make the decision.

    I get the scholarship and how it impacts your family financially, but the bigger pic is SFT selection.

    AROTC does not have that critical MUST attend SFT in the summer of their rising jr., otherwise they can be dis-enrolled. It is mixing apples with oranges. Just like AROTC does not guarantee AD and the AF does for 100% of AFROTC cadets.

    I understand he is a great student, I get your perspective, but now let's do some reality checks.

    SFT ranking is part of their OML when it comes to their career field assignments. It is a good chunk of the score, more than their cgpa.

    PT scores are part of their SFT ranking. They are awarded points for DG, top 1, 10, 20, 30, 50 and below 50% for SFT.

    They have a legitimate worry and stress this issue to him, because as I stated before our DS was told do not lose weight or they will turn you back at SFT. DS went Max6, which was @ 2 1/2 months after school ending. They are worried that when they select him, send him home for the summer, he won't be doing PT 2-3 times a week and his weight will crop up again to the pt when he hits Maxwell, he is above the weight limit and even taping him he doesn't meet the requirements. OBTW that will also be their concern come next fall if they award him a scholarship. Will he be able to contract?

    They selected him. They paid for his airfare and per diem. Gave him uniforms for SFT, etc. They have spent manpower hours regarding submitting board packages, board decisions, cutting orders, and transit, all for what? For him to be sent back the day he arrived due to his weight.

    They still have an ADAF manpower need for 16, and they are predicting their goals on SFT for AFROTC.

    Like I said Army does not mandate every cadet go through this type of program as a rising jr. They do not mandate that every AROTC cadet go ADA. They have other routes for AROTC cadets upon commissioning that AFROTC does not.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2012
  10. Oldsalt

    Oldsalt Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2012
    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    16
    Parents need to be considering this at a higher level. Why is there a weight standard and why is it being enforced at a much higher level today?
    My lens is a Navy one, but the others are probably similar. About five years ago, the Navy realized the long term medical cost of taking care of unfit sailors was extraordinary. While Tubac and Pima's DS's may not fit into this category, if your child is having a hard time meeting weight standards as a freshman in college, it will not get any easier. If they commit and fall out of standard, it is unlikely they will be given the option to meet their commitment through enlisted service.
    As a parent, you need to have a frank conversation with your child before they commit. They are not normal college students. Their mythical “permanent record” becomes a reality the day they are awarded an ROTC scholarship. Any run in with the law, school administrators, ethical lapses, lack of performance in the class room or on the PT field could, and most likely will, result in serious consequences. They are not given do-over’s. It is a hard conversation, but it is much easier than having to figure out how to pay back a scholarship.
     
  11. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,807
    Likes Received:
    948
    +1 to oldsalt.
     
  12. goaliedad

    goaliedad Parent

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,601
    Likes Received:
    35
    He definitely needs to step it up. It is about 10 weeks until weigh-in. That makes for 2 lbs. per week. That nets to a net of 1000 calories/day of output (physical work) over input (food). Very doable, but requires both change in diet (he needs to stay away from anything fried or breaded at the cafeteria as a start - think minimally prepared vegetables/fruit/meat) and exercise.

    Mind you, there may be a bit of muscle mass gained as part of ROTC participation, so overshooting the fat loss is probably necessary. Plus after an extended period of shorting the body of fuel, the metabolism has a nasty habit of slowing down (leaving you short of energy).

    If it makes you feel any better, I actually lost 25 lbs my first quarter at college. My secret - I lived 2 miles from campus, rode my bike or walked everywhere, and (because I wasn't in a dorm) fixed my own food (and actually I was/am a fairly decent cook). I never stepped in a gym. I probably walked between 8 and 10 miles total every day. Didn't ride the shuttle bus.
     

Share This Page