Questions about the U.S. Navy SEALs

I'm biting my tongue now, especially assigning a wife a rank. I think we've all had that wife roll in and give her husband's (or wife's, this is 2012 after all) rank as her own.... right up there with "Do you know who my husband is?"

I won't be tipping my cap to any wives but my own (future... she's currently a fiancee).
 
LineInTheSand said:
I'm biting my tongue now, especially assigning a wife a rank. I think we've all had that wife roll in and give her husband's (or wife's, this is 2012 after all) rank as her own.... right up there with "Do you know who my husband is?"

I won't be tipping my cap to any wives but my own (future... she's currently a fiancee).
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You're right, my bad. I was typing distracted. If I intended it as a rank I would have capitalized "Wife", of course. What I meant to say was; individual wives of individual SEAL Chiefs taken as a collective whole, understanding that not all SO Chiefs are married.

I was also wrong in using the imperative in regards to tipping the cap. I applaud your total devotion to your future wife and wouldn't want to suggest otherwise. Instead why not consider (interrogative not imperative and not you in specific,but rather the general population that may read this) a donation to the children of fallen SEALs at nswfoundation.org or some other worthy cause? I mean, everybody can agree on helping kids.

P.S. I've never actually witnessed what you described where a spouse assumes the rank of his/her spouse or says, do you know who my spouse is. That sounds awkward, no wonder you're concerned.
 
Haha, my fiancee is a pharmacist... it's generally at a clinic/hospital or in her case, the pharmacy window that "ranks" get thrown in.

I've seen "rank dropping", but not to the degree she has. And I have to agree, the cause you brought up is a very worthy one.

I've given to Coast Guard Mutual Assistance since 2006 and organized a fundraiser for the families of seven Coasties who died when their C-130 collided with a Marine Super Cobra during a SAR case. The funds raised went to the Coast Guard Foundation and were distributed to programs for the families, ended up being around $6,000.

Any time you can give to the needy it's great, but it's really nice to give to servicemembers or their families who hit hard times/lose loved ones.
 
basilrathbone said:
Gotcha. I didn't consider the 2000's because I didn't think they were called Boat Units then...
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Yup, you did. When I showed up, it SBU, when I left it was SBT. We all thought it was pretty lame, and our platoon joked that now were "Team Guys". When I'm in charge, they'll go back to Special Boat Units!
 
My apologies!

I want to clarify to everyone that I apologize if I offended anyone! That was never my intention.

In fact, I actually meant to give serious commendation to those wives that stick it out and work the FRGs and everything... They make a world of difference. And as far as the "SEAL hussies" comment (Maybe it's a Team 5 thing to call them that? I've never heard them called anything else.) lol And by that I did not mean the wives in general, but more like the girls who hang out in Danny's and McP's trying to find that "young guy" right out of SQT to have a good time with. More than one of my good friends has fallen prey and thought he was in love. lol

Now, to clarify my perspective... I'm the son of an enlisted Operator and I enlisted in the Navy as part of the SEAL program. I am in no way "tough as nails" like my buddies though, which is why I kept speaking to them. I was an idiot and went on a dive when I had "SIPE", this put a whole in my lung and I lost dive status... At this, with help from the community I ended up getting to stay around in a support role until I reached FFD again (although three different DMO's have refused to clear me for dive duty). From there I got sent to a regular Navy unit, (as per needs of the Navy) and I became a Sonar Technician Gunner...

Sometime after that, I had caught wind of West Point accepting enlisted sailors into school and I worked my butt off to receive a nomination and my letters of recommendation, nearly a year after that and here we are now! lol

My point of view is probably skewed to the younger enlisted Team Guys as almost all of my friends are in their early 20's and enlisted... I hope everyone can see that I was not meaning to disrespect or talk down about the Teams; it was the best time of my life.

When I said "normal" I meant the usual 9 to 5 job where the husband comes home everyday. lol And how the Teams are in no way like that from my time with them, we worked hard and played hard. Often, I didn't get home until late in the evening and it killed any relationship I had (maybe I just pick the wrong women :wink: ) And my friends whom I spend almost every waking moment with seem to have the same problem. lol The life is hard on a family, but worth every bit of it. And to be honest, I don't know anyone who says differently...

So, in the long run, I apologize if I upset anyone or created confusion. I will say, I would never shy anyone from the path!!! However, I can only state my experiences, and I truly appreciate anyone else's.

Very respectfully,

LofgrenCL
 
To the OP:
A good website for you to visit and read (not post) is socnet.com. It's a forum full of verified members of the Special Operations communities of all branches of the military. It is full of information that you may find useful or just plain interesting to read.
 
Pima-

Feel free to apologize to LofgrenCL at any time. As he seems to not have interest in "flaming" you, I'll kindly remind you that your comments were completely unwarranted. As is your standard practice, you made an assumption about someone's experience and perspective, pinned on your Spouse Oak Leaf, and went to town.

Turns out he has plenty of firsthand perspective, enlisted in the Navy, and is not in the Army as you assumed.

Enjoy your crow.
 
Thank You

scoutpilot said:
Pima-

Feel free to apologize to LofgrenCL at any time. As he seems to not have interest in "flaming" you, I'll kindly remind you that your comments were completely unwarranted. As is your standard practice, you made an assumption about someone's experience and perspective, pinned on your Spouse Oak Leaf, and went to town.

Turns out he has plenty of firsthand perspective, enlisted in the Navy, and is not in the Army as you assumed.

Enjoy your crow.
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Sir,

Thanks for your support.

I do have to be fair and say, that following my post and a PM, PIMA and I have made friends and apologized to one another for any misunderstanding.

I greatly respect both of you and the knowledge you share and possess (one can always use different perspectives).

Very Respectfully,

LofgrenCL
 
vxc961 said:
Yup, you did. When I showed up, it SBU, when I left it was SBT. We all thought it was pretty lame, and our platoon joked that now were "Team Guys". When I'm in charge, they'll go back to Special Boat Units!
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I read this four or five times and was completely stymied by ,”yes, you did”. (I was actually reading it as some sort of solidarity saying based on an Obama slogan, lol) But I finally had a flash of the obvious. When I wrote “gotcha” I meant it as, “ooooh, I get you now…that makes sense” not , “ha! I tricked you and you fell into my evil trap”. I want to clarify that I am a woman in her 40’s not a boy in 5th grade, although my poorly worded post probably raised some questions about that. When you gave that time frame everything else made sense including the task unit part. I had read you as much older than you are and thought you were pre-SWCC. I had melded the SBU to SBT change in with the same time frame when we had to transition to occupational-inclusive language of NSW on all of our events a few years prior to that. I will definitely send my vote your way when you’re in charge, especially if you let me add a few more name changes to your list.
 
There may be some confusion with Lofgren's clarification and hopefully Pima hasn't eaten that crow quite yet.

Lofgren described being medically dropped from the SEAL program, likely in Indoc as he explains it (a white shirt roll/drop at the very beginning of training or before they actually "phase up" as an official BUD/S class) He was actually clarifying that he was never a SEAL. Being stashed at a SEAL team temporarily gives him an extremely limited view of family life in the SEAL Teams and far from first hand experience. I read his post as him being very respectful and verifying Pima's essential point, which I'm glad they covered via PM. He wasn't saying that his dad was a SEAL but that he comes from a military background (if I'm wrong, let me know who your dad is since he'd be probably around the same BUD/S class as my husband and we likely know him, maybe he has a different last name). I don't always approve of the language they use, but SEALs from SEAL Team 5 use the same basic terms as SEALs at all the other Teams (my suspicion is that they cover such important terms in SQT).
 
Finally

As my final post here on this thread, I just wanted to put out there that I went through 23 weeks of phase I-III prior to my drop and move into support for Team 5, (earned that brown shirt! And wore it for quite a bit before losing dive lol). :smile:

But, to keep from putting too much out there, my father has the same name and is currently at JSOTF AFRICOM.

I would hope that we could all agree that every experience is different and the Teams are, even now, changing from a year ago (slowly being overrun by blue water bureaucracy).

I admire the strength and tenacity that Basil has had, and that strength is not uncommon in her generation. However, I've had this conversation with almost everyone I know from the Teams in the past few weeks, and they all agree, relationships are hard and often fail in the Teams today. Even our "old" SOCS (push-broom mustache and all) agreed; telling us we'd be stupid to get married and we should especially not have children. Although, I will say, he says that after being married for over 20 years (don't remember exactly how long) and having three daughters. Maybe it's my generation and the outlook on marriage in this country as a whole, but it seems that among those in the "Mafia" (E-5s, E-6s with time down range) marriage seems bleak to most. Find some cougar beyond immaturity and it'll all work out. :wink:

Oh, but as far as the job, there's nothing like waking up and knowing your work day consists of PT, free fall, range time, and a cold beer (optional)... Best day of your life. lol

That's my piece and experiences, I hope that looking at the different thoughts everyone will be able to see it all just depends, there are too many factors. Which I think is the important part of this thread, the OP can learn from every perspective provided.

Very respectfully,

LofgrenCL
 
LofgrenCL said:
As my final post here on this thread, I just wanted to put out there that I went through 23 weeks of phase I-III prior to my drop and move into support for Team 5, (earned that brown shirt! And wore it for quite a bit before losing dive lol). :smile:

But, to keep from putting too much out there, my father has the same name and is currently at JSOTF AFRICOM.

I would hope that we could all agree that every experience is different and the Teams are, even now, changing from a year ago (slowly being overrun by blue water bureaucracy).

I admire the strength and tenacity that Basil has had, and that strength is not uncommon in her generation. However, I've had this conversation with almost everyone I know from the Teams in the past few weeks, and they all agree, relationships are hard and often fail in the Teams today. Even our "old" SOCS (push-broom mustache and all) agreed; telling us we'd be stupid to get married and we should especially not have children. Although, I will say, he says that after being married for over 20 years (don't remember exactly how long) and having three daughters. Maybe it's my generation and the outlook on marriage in this country as a whole, but it seems that among those in the "Mafia" (E-5s, E-6s with time down range) marriage seems bleak to most. Find some cougar beyond immaturity and it'll all work out. :wink:

Oh, but as far as the job, there's nothing like waking up and knowing your work day consists of PT, free fall, range time, and a cold beer (optional)... Best day of your life. lol

That's my piece and experiences, I hope that looking at the different thoughts everyone will be able to see it all just depends, there are too many factors. Which I think is the important part of this thread, the OP can learn from every perspective provided.

Very respectfully,

LofgrenCL
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I don’t disagree with the view of your E4-E5 SEAL friends. During my husband’s first couple of tours when I was in my late teens to early 20’s, we spent virtually all of our free time with other very young SEALs. While it was crazy and a lot of fun, it was a train wreck for relationships. Infidelity seemed epidemic, the stress of him going into combat for the first time was overwhelming for me and losing SEALs was particularly hard to cope with. Several of our friends divorced and the revolving door of girlfriends was almost amusing. I didn’t know any stable SEAL families. My husband, however, loved his job and I was so young I figured we would be different. (Sometimes immaturity can be a valuable coping skill) I was in my mid twenties with 2 kids before I started engaging with any other SEAL families. I was a little amazed to find out that they had always been there, I had just never noticed.

My view after the first couple of tours (although valid at the time to my first hand experience) is very different than the view I have now after 14 tours. The vast majority of those SEALs who divorced in the early years later remarried and are raising families very successfully in the Teams. Even most of the guys with the revolving door of girlfriends eventually settled down and are great family guys now, sometimes to my great amazement. In fact, divorce is pretty rare in the later years. Marriage attrition is early in the SEAL Teams. People would be surprised how it stables out. I know I was. I’ve seen this same cycle over and over and over again. They don’t stay E5’s forever (it just seems that way).

My basic point is that I don’t think it’s fair to take a glimpse into the most unstable (relationship wise) part of a community over a very short period of time and use that sliver to make generalizations that apply to the whole. I would assume that sets up a false premise in other communities as well, in all services.

To Lofgren, I’m not dismissing your experience at BUD/S, I just don’t think it really applies to the question of whether or not a SEAL can have a successful family life. After Dive Phase is completed successfully there are still about 8 more months of training before becoming a SEAL and even starting to live day 1 of the SEAL lifestyle. Being stashed at a Team as a student while waiting for a permanent assignment to a regular Navy unit is not the same experience. It’s not that I think you don’t deserve an opinion, clearly you do and you have a unique perspective here. I just feel it’s valid to point out the limitations of your experience after the first couple of posts led people to believe that you were a SEAL and you used your own experience to make your case. If someone asks about log PT or the best technique for the Weaver I will gladly defer to you since your experience directly applies and I would only be describing what I have witnessed and heard described hundreds of times but not experienced firsthand successfully. I mean, really, start on your chest, hook your foot, flip under and flip back on top. Use your chest as momentum. I’m not even sure if that’s right. That one is a lot harder than it looks!

SEALs have always complained about the impending doom from the “blue water” Navy. I’ve heard that for 25 years. They also think BUD/S has gone soft since their class graduated, no matter when they went through. Of course, the Senior Chief with a super family tells the young guys they’ll never have a successful family life. It’s great sport for him.

As far as my generation being tougher, I absolutely don’t agree. We have just been at it longer and have the perspective of time.
 
I have yet another perspective to add...that of a mother-in-law to a Navy SEAL (USNA grad) who married DD this last summer; she is a USNA grad as well and now 1stLT USMC stationed in Camp Lejeune. They were in the same Company at USNA, keeping things very low key for a couple years and then someone blabbed and he had to get a "love chit" -:wink: - and out of company as a firstie - yikes! She is Marine - he is Navy and even when neither are deployed overseas, they only see each other on non-duty/non-training random weekends since his duty station is 4 hours north of her. She was deployed in Afghanistan all during the months preceding her wedding - except for the one just prior to The Day - leaving the planning of this to us mothers (he was in remote, can't really say where, training, I believe stateside, but who knows?? for most of the pre-wedding months). So the two Moms, we live several states apart, different time zones worked our own secret ops with wedding invitations, guest lists, we didn't even know the names of some of the guests...some invites had to be hand delivered...goodness...I best not divulge much more, hope I haven't said too much already. But that's the mother-in-law perspective. Both DD and DS I L have jobs they can't really talk about to each other and what little is discussed surely can't be passed on to family - it's a crazy way, for me anyway - a dyed-in-the-wool chatterbox to communicate...or rather NOT communicate:yllol: Oh well, they love each other, they love serving their country, they know what they've signed up for military-wise and marriage-wise - as much as two incredibly mature, wonderful mid-20 year olds can be!
 
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