Questions for CG of Cadet Command

[k2rider]

Dr. G.
I interpret your remarks as meaning that CC will pushed "harder" during the four years of AROTC, not "pushed through no matter how marginal a cadet he/she is".
Am I correct?

I read just the opposite and believe that to be the case anyway. That's the case in most facets of life nowadays. We don't want to hurt anybody feelings don't ya know.

 

[QA1517]

I read just the opposite and believe that to be the case anyway. That's the case in most facets of life nowadays. We don't want to hurt anybody feelings don't ya know.

I interpreted in the same as you. Once you're in as long as you don't screw up big time you will get pushed thru.

 

[AROTC-dad]

Thanks, K2 and QA....I appreciate your perspectives! K2, you have been through this twice! It is still my first (and only).

 

[MabryPsyD]

I interpreted in the same as you. Once you're in as long as you don't screw up big time you will get pushed thru.

Yep. That was my take away. Run the gauntlet to get your foot in the door. Keep your nose clean and meet the minimum standard (and the minimum gets less and less every year). If you're not "leadership ready" as an upperclassmen, you're going to CIET.

 

[QA1517]

Since DS started this trip the whole cadet command and changing training scenario has become extremely dis-heartening and frustrating.
We teach our kids to push themselves beyond their limits and you will see the results only to have them start their careers at the same point as the ones that just slide by...........

I cannot imagine how the experienced officers and nco's in today's military view new lt's.

I'll go back to something DS said from his observation...do away with ROTC and run everybody thru basic and OCS.

 

[MabryPsyD]

Since DS started this trip the whole cadet command and changing training scenario has become extremely dis-heartening and frustrating.
We teach our kids to push themselves beyond their limits and you will see the results only to have them start their careers at the same point as the ones that just slide by...........

I cannot imagine how the experienced officers and nco's in today's military view new lt's.

I'll go back to something DS said from his observation...do away with ROTC and run everybody thru basic and OCS.

Keep in mind, the pay off comes in many forms (Ed Delay, active duty, branch of choice, etc).

 

[AJC]

I imagine the experienced Officers ans NCOs will be able to tell who is who and what is what.
They won't have to tell the new Officers to "forget everything you have been taught up to now", because they have not been taught anything.
Perhaps the rumored new system of finding the best fit for branching will put people in a better position to be successful.
Also keep in mind the system is designed to account for attrition. If all the dead wood is cut before commissioning where does that leave the pipeline that is expecting to shed people as time progresses. Alas, some peoples's purpose in life is to serve as an example of what not to be.

 

[AROTC-dad]

Alas, some peoples's purpose in life is to serve as an example of what not to be.

Soooo true.

 

[Jcleppe]

We teach our kids to push themselves beyond their limits and you will see the results only to have them start their careers at the same point as the ones that just slide by...........

I agree with the Major, the reward for excellence comes with getting AD and a better shot at the cadet's branch of choice, of course some cadets that fall toward the bottom of the list still get their preferred branch, being higher on the list helps with a cadet's chances.

As it's been said, a lot of this is taken care of with attrition, those that don't put in the effort often leave the program. Being toward the bottom of the OML does not always equate to being an inferior officer, there are a lot of factors that can come into play. The cadets major, if it is extremely difficult can result in a lower GPA while grade inflation at certain colleges can help a cadets GPA, now a bad day with the standardized testing can have a big effect. A cadet may come from a highly competitive battalion, while they may find themselves at the bottom of their battalion OML they could have easily been toward the top at a different battalion. Looking through history there have been some pretty good officers that were toward or at the bottom of their class at WP, I'm sure the same goes for ROTC.

In my opinion, ROTC and even WP is just a pathway to a commission. Where you were on the OML is never discussed once the new LT arrives at BOLC, it's a start of a whole new ballgame. This is a place where they no longer have to balance school and ROTC, 100% of their effort is now on their branch training, this is where what type of an officer they will be starts to be molded.

Talking to my son over his last 4 years of AD, and looking back at my own experiences, how a person commissioned and how they ranked at ROTC, OCS, or an academy had little consequence toward how they performed as an officer.

Both my sons were decent students in high school, above 3.5 GPAs, they didn't have the highest ACT/SAT scores. An admissions counselor at one school told my younger son that he would have trouble in college because his ACT scores barely made a composite of 24. He graduated college with a 3.7 while doing well in ROTC and being very active in student government, branched Aviation. Sometimes the scores and rankings are not a true test of one's abilities, just as their position on the OML does not tell the whole story.

Of course all of this is just my opinion.

 

[MabryPsyD]

My ROTC experience was unique, since my entire graduating class was prior service. Back then, class ranking was VERY subjective. While I was learning Army tactics, my classmates were reviewing Army tactics. Let's just say the I wasn't top of my class. However, I still contend my overall class ranking didn't impact or predict how I would perform in the "real" Army.

 

[NavyHoops]

I can't tell you how many of my classmates that did extremely well at USNA were just mediocre officers. I have had friends who were in the lower half have command and on their path to possible future stars. The pay off for doing well is the branch, duty station, flight school date, ship someone wants. Once you get there it's up to each person to write their story.

 

[QA1517]

I guess all of the statements above maybe lead into what I was trying to say and don't disagree with any of them.

As a newbie coming into ROTC you believe it to be THE way to learn, THE way to teach you what to expect in the military and THE way to proof yoourself. Essentially for a lot of kids it's just THE way to pay for college and opens the door for you to proof yourself once you get out of college and start your military job.

We, as in DS and myself, just expected more from it. Expected the military training aspect of it to take precedence over what your major is and maybe still out weigh your GPA and other things. And maybe 7 or 8 yrs ago it was different, it seems to have changed quite a lot the past few years.

 

[KeyzCat]

My ROTC experience was unique, since my entire graduating class was prior service.

Thank you so much for your feedback. Congratulations!