Quick AFROTC Question

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Non Ducor Duco, Mar 31, 2012.

  1. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    I received a 4 yr AFROTC type-7 scholarship. I have a merit based tuition scholarship to the school I will be attending, so I should be able to use the AFROTC one to just pay for the school fees right? I remember reading a thread a couple of months ago (from years ago) asking about the same thing but I can't find it to double check.

    Also, it was my understanding that this type of scholarship only pays up to IS tuition, but in my scholarship packet it says:
    ...The offer will provide full annual tuition and fees at X school, $900 per year for textbooks, and at least a $300 monthly stipend during the school year.
    I know the tuition and fees for my school will total around $10,000-11,000 per year and that's really low, especially compared to the OOS tuition there, but does that mean I won't have to use that tuition scholarship at all? That would be great cause then I could save it for Grad school. I tried to call my scholarship technician but apparently he's out for a couple of days. I appreciate any clarification that can be provided:smile:.
     
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Basically, your school is under the 18K cap for IS, so you should be clear to go.

    The real difference between Type 2 and 7, is that 2 would allow the merit or personal funds to kick in to pay if tuition was over 18K, type 7 you cannot. That is why people convert the 4 yr 7 to a 3 yr 2.

    You should realize book and monthly allowances are:
    1. Not taxable
    2. Are paid in arrears

    Your 1st of the month check is for the days between the 15th and the 30/31st. Mid month is for days between the 1st and the 14th.

    There is a cut off date, usually about a week prior. That means your 1st paycheck will probably not be the full 150. At the end of the yr., it may not also be the full 150 for the pay period. If the last day of ROTC is the 10th, they are not going to give you the full 150, it will be a per diem for each day you were in AFROTC. School breaks, such as Thanksgiving, Winter and spring are not going to be deducted because you still are academically in school.

    You also do not get paid until you contract. I.E. 1st day of class is 8/31, but 1st day of AFROTC is 9/6, and contract date is 9/8.

    Pay starts on 9/8. Now go back to the cut off date, and if you think on the 15th you will have 150 bucks in your account, you may be really upset because you contracted after the cut off date.

    Every fall DS landed up getting a lot of deposits in Oct. before he became a 400. The portion from that contracting date, (C100/200's do not get paid yr round), book allowance, and than the actual on target allowance. C300's have wonky pay issues because their SFT is considered a TDY, but must come an report back in as now a 300 before it is paid, thus it is book allowance and FT per diem.

    Everything in the AF is paid in arrears.
     
  3. paradoxer

    paradoxer Member

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    Scholarship

    It would be highly unlikely that you could use an undergraduate scholarship during graduate school; I'd double check on that for sure.
     
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Paradoxer is correct, this is not a 18K times 4 yrs = 72K, and if it costs 50K, you can apply the difference to grad school.

    Every AD AF officer is eligible for TAP = Tuition Assistance Program.

    AF will pay for AD members to attend college at night/weekends/online, up to 75% as long as they agree to owe time back. Every base has nationally accredited universities on base, i.e. ERAU, UMD, Troy, Webster, Etc. They exist for ease regarding the military member, but you can also use it colleges in your area. Let's be real though, I doubt there is a college you would drive to from Canon AFB, or Minot, when you can just take the class on base. They offer classes even during lunch hours.

    It will run concurrent with your commitment, beware that means the last time you ask for assistance. I.E. you commission in 16, you must be in until 20. Take it in 18, you are in until 21. That is why you see some stop taking it because they have realized that due to PCS issues and commitment, allowing the AF to pay for it could result in longer commitment to the AF.

    Do not confuse TAP with ED, which also exists, but ED is very, very competitive! The AF will pay for you to go right out of college for your grad. There are many on this site who have follow ons to UPT, but got their grad degree 1st. Hornet (pH.D), Eagle and Raimius all went this route.

    You can get financial assistance through the AF as an AD member so the idea of saving for grad is moot!
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2012
  5. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    In my state we have a merit scholarship called HOPE that pays for the full tuition for any school in the state as long as you graduate high school with a 3.7 unweighted gpa in your core classes, which I have. The cap is 127 credit hours, beyond that you're on your own. So if I don't have to use it for my undergraduate degree, I could as for an AD delay and use HOPE to get my masters out of the way.

    And Pima, my tuition and fees will be so cheap that I am just taking the 4 yr type 7. In every description of that scholarship that I read it said that it only paid for instate tuition, that is why I was surprised when my letter said that it would pay for everything at X school
     
  6. FutureOfficerMom

    FutureOfficerMom Member

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    NDD--Just to be clear, the type 7 pays tuition UP TO in state tuition, plus fees, monthly stipend and a book allowance. It does not pay everything--if books are more than the allotment, you will only be reimbursed for the AFROTC allotment. There may be some fees that the scholarship does not cover. AND it does not pay for room & board. (Though some schools will provide a separate R&B scholarship for ROTC recipients.) Here is the link to the AFROTC website description: http://afrotc.com/scholarships/high-school/scholarship-types/.

    Congratulations on your award. Best of luck!
     
  7. paradoxer

    paradoxer Member

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    Hope Scholarship

    You better double check because last I knew the Hope Scholarship did not apply if you had an undergraduate degree.
     
  8. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    paradoxer, I thought HOPE was only for undergrad, I don't think we are talking about the federal tax credit, but a state program

    NDD, you may be correct that you can use it for either degree, but I would investigate it because the key word maybe up to 127 college credit hours.

    In your case as a college graduate they may say you have more than 127 credit hours, thus, they will not pay for graduate school.

    Additionally, I would investigate to see if they pay for grad what is the min cgpa you need. It would not make sense that they will pay for grad with no min cgpa from undergrad, but put a requirement on HS for undergrad.


    Future is also correct it is UP TO IS, and it only pays tuition. You will be amazed the amount of fees the schools nail students with, and AFROTC will not pay for them. I think for DD, her freshman yr it was @ 1850 dollars in BS fees.

    The way it works is the AF pays the bursar directly for the tuition portion only. If it is 10K, than they pay 10K, not a dime more. People believe that between AFROTC scholarship and merit if it goes over the school will cut a check to the student. This is not universal and if the check is cut it is not coming from the AF's pot of gold, it is coming from the college. Our DS's college has never cut a check

    In other words just because the AF will pay UP TO 18K, and your school is 8K cheaper than the UP TO limit, there will be no 8K check cut to you by the AF.

    Finally,
    I get you have this plan, and it is good to have it. Trust me, you are not the 1st nor will be the last to consider ED. DS thought about it too at your age, but once you get to your 300 yr when you have to decide if you will apply for ED, many cadets are burnt out from the academic world. The idea of 2 more yrs in a classroom, than about 2 more yrs if you go rated, you quickly realize you will be 26 before you can put the books down and stop testing constantly.

    Even for non-rated, many will go through the AF's training program, which is academic. It is not as long as UPT/UNT, but it is still classrooms. They don't just say, okay you are an Intel officer, go be an Intel officer. You go through their training and than it is more training once operational.

    The other issue is that for some the decision is based on when they want to walk out the AF's door.
    ~~~ ED means you will walk out at 28 the earliest. (22 commission, 24 AD operational, 4 yrs later 28)
    ~~~ Take TAP and you can walk at 26 1/2 (22 commission, TAP is concurrent -- 3 yrs owed, 23 1/2 at last TAP, 3 yrs 26 1/2.
    ~~~ In it for a career, take the break and do it prior to O4 board, JIC you don't get picked up, you have your Masters.

    Companies when hiring look more for the fact that you have a Master's than where it came from. NO Flaming. Yes, if it comes from a top tier college, like HYPPSM, or AF AFIT/Fellowships, than it will be a player in the equation, however, if it is from just a traditional state college, than it isn't going to get you a job any faster than someone else who has the same grad. degree. The make or break will be your work experience. I.E. why some do TAP.

    AF is willing to pay 75%, the colleges on bases vary, but most have ERAU, UMD, Troy, Webster, etc. Same par as a traditional college, but for you personally if you want 4 and the door, it could be a factor. 26 1/2 or 28.

    Also remember the way commitments work in the AF. Let's assume in both scenarios you go overseas for your 1st tour, 2- 3 yrs., you get orders with more than 1 yr left., that means they can send you back stateside, and you owe another 3 yrs. You actually are now at 28 with no ED, and close to 30 with ED.

    As you can see when you get into AFROTC and start learning about commitments owed, how the line in the sand changes, those with the desire to leave at 4, re-think really quick how this is a factor.

    Those wanting to do career, re-think because they realize that for promotion purposes the Master's is masked for over a decade. They than start to put into the equation how delaying will impact their career.

    I support ED, but I think you need to look at long term goals and how it may impact you. In the rated world, it is a very difficult position to be in, but if it is AF sponsored (AFIT/Fellowships) it is different because it tells the AD commander, they were so good, the AF was willing to pay for them to go to grad. If you go on your own with your own dime, it just says you wanted it.

    Meanwhile, that other officer who went Intel, has worked their way up in rank, and you could be reporting to him, but as far as the AF sees he is above you. Remember the grad degree is masked, they don't have a clue. All they know is the other is in charge, has more fodder compared to you.
     
  9. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    Just got off the phone with my scholarship technitian and the good news is that the letter meant exactly what it said. They will pay for my full tuition and fees at X school. Unexpected, but I'm really happy:shake:

    Bad news is that I dug a little deeper and found out that HOPE only pays up to 127 credit hours attempted regardless of whether or not they paid for the first 30 hours you've completed:scratch:. And now they only pay for graduate schools for teachers. This is disappointing, they've been making so many changes to HOPE over the years that I'm afraid it'll be gone in a couple of years. So many people rely on it. The majority of the few people I know from my school that are going to college after high school can only go BECAUSE of HOPE.

    Pima, I understand your skepticism that I would want to be in the classroom for 2 more years, but I made a promise to my father that I intend to keep. He learned later in life about the importance of education and is now working on his doctorate with a full time job with the department of homeland security. But his work schedule is heavy and he often has to fly out at a moment's notice so you can imagine how much of a toll that has on him. It would be better to get it all out of the way early. It is admirable, but I personally don't want to be 45 and still in school. He made me promise to not stop until I get my doctorate. Yes, I realize that that means that I won't get out of school until I'm at LEAST 28, but this is very important to me. If I can get a delay and get it paid for then great, if I can't and have to get my degree online while in the AF then so be it. After I finish my bachelor's i'll have been in school for 16 years, I think I should be able to handle 6 more.

    I realize that my degree won't matter much while I'm in the AF, but matters a great deal outside of it. I love the military and I want it to be a part of my life, but i realize that it will not and can not last forever. Eventually, everyone has to either get out or retire to make way for growth and change. I'm not trying to use the military as some people would accuse, however, it would be very foolish of me to believe that the AF will be my entire life and not just a part of it.

    P.S. I do NOT want to go rated. That is not to say that I wouldn't jump out of a perfectly good airplane if I was ordered to:wink:, but not everyone wants to be a pilot, at least I certainly don't.

    Edit: Oh and Pima you must have read my mind. I didn't ask about where the extra money went but I had wondered if I would get anything extra if I didn't use it all because I know you can do that will some scholarships and grants. Ah well, at least I know now.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2012
  10. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I respect your father, I respect you.

    I am not going to go any further because reading your post your decision is made regarding AD ED.

    My opinion has nothing to do with rated/non-rated. It is all about your personal drive/motivation.

    I wish you the best of the best, and hope your dreams come true
     
  11. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    Oh ok. I added that I didn't want to go rated because it seemed like some of your advice was dependent on whether I wanted to fly or not. I'm really glad you guys made me take another look at the new HOPE eligibility rules, I wouldn't have wanted to find that out later on.

    My decision has been made about the end goal(getting a doctorate), it is not entirely made up about AD ED since only time and experience can cement that. I believe that AD ED would be the IDEAL course of action for me, but of course, that just depends on whether or not I can afford it. Thank you though, you put things into a different perspective for me. I have to admit, your previous posts scared me a little lol, but I do feel more strongly now, after reconsidering everything, that spending my 20s in school will be worth it in the end. I had not been aware of such a thing as AFIT/Fellowships, but I will certainly look into it:smile:.
     
  12. Packer

    Packer Member

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    Pima's specialty.:biggrin:
     
  13. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Yes, but she achieves results! This one being a case in point. Thanks Pima!
     
  14. Packer

    Packer Member

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    :thumb:
     
  15. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    AFIT and fellowships are insanely competitive. These are ED's that the AF pays for while also paying you as an officer. It is open to AFA and AFROTC grads, not just one or the other.

    AD ED as a ROTC grad without that path it is going to be expensive because you will not be receiving a paycheck, nor TA. AFROTC commissioned officers do not get paid until they report AD, from what I understand, you would be considered on par with a traditional grad waiting to go to their 1st duty station; see quote below.

    All the AF is really saying is we will defer your RNLD to your operational base until after you get your Masters. The real issue for them is if they can defer from a manpower need.

    Since this is one of your goals, your AFSC is going to be a player in that equation. If the AFSC is a critical manned field, chances are they will say no, if it isn't chances are good.

    Here's the AFROTC perspective from their website

    Good luck.
     

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