Ranking

[MemberLG]

Its not uncommon for a class to lose 250 cadets by the time they commit. Commitment is the point of no return after their Yuk summer.

Probably not that high now. My class started with 1400 and gradutaed just for 1000. So we probably lost 250 by our cow year. The new classes have been holding around 1200 starting and about 1000 graduating.

Wonder if West Point give the same speech, look to your right and left, by time you graduate one of them won't be there?

 

[MemberLG]

I agree with you to a certain extent, but I don't think the class rank system is completely fair. I have gotten 2 B's in my entire high school career(everything else is A's), I've taken 3 AP classes and 6 honors classes, my GPA is 3.85 unweighted and 4.3 weighted yet my class rank is only 66/426, which as you probably know, is below average by service academy standards. My class rank isn't "mediocre" because I haven't worked as hard as my peers and I'm not as smart as them, but because there are A LOT of really smart people at my school. Last year, 25%, yes 25%, of our seniors scored a 30 or above on the ACT. I don't know if you understand how amazing that is, but it's really, really amazing. 25%. Last semester I got all A's(my school works on an 18 week course system) yet my class rank actually got worse, by two spots. That in my opinion is completely ridiculous. I did as well as I possibly could have done, and my class rank went down. I've basically gotten to a point where no matter how well I do, no matter how hard I work, I can't improve, and that in my opinion is wrong.

Life is not fair. Are you benefiting from attending a good school? Would you rather attend a bad school and have a higher class ranking?

Many things in life is not about how hard you try or achieving 100% of your potential ("I did as well as I possibly could have done.") Certain things in life is about being better than your competition. You don't get into West Point by just trying and doing your best. You get into West Point being better than your competition.

 

[frenzymando]

Life is not fair. Are you benefiting from attending a good school? Would you rather attend a bad school and have a higher class ranking?

Many things in life is not about how hard you try or achieving 100% of your potential ("I did as well as I possibly could have done.") Certain things in life is about being better than your competition. You don't get into West Point by just trying and doing your best. You get into West Point being better than your competition.

I think you interpreted me stating my opinion as me complaining. I wasn't trying to complain, I was simply stating my opinion. I'm aware that life isn't fair, and that even if I try my very best, there is a good chance I won't get into a service academy. I just have to make the most of the hand I'm dealt.

To answer your questions, I honestly believe going to a "good school" has not benefited me very much, if at all. I'm not sure if this is true, but it's what I think. I would rather attend the school that gives me a best chance of getting into a service academy, not sure if that would be a bad one or a good one.

 

[Socaldad2019]

In regards to frenzymando....don't focus on your class rank. Just keep the rigor of your high school classes strong and keep getting the As.

Like you said, you can't control your class rank and I know in my DS' case it wasn't what got him in.

My DS had a 4.34 weighted GPA and a 4.0 unweighted GPA, yet his weighted class rank was 57 out of 573 and he was the principle nominee in his competitive district for West Point. That being said, his SAT wasn't stellar, but he played varsity baseball, volunteered a lot of time, had leadership roles in clubs, wrote some amazing essays and did very well on his nomination interview.

Considering he's done great in school, you can't control what others are doing and focus on class rank. Like your high school, lots of kids have over a 4.5 weighted and are going to schools like Hopkins, Rice, Cal, Cornell, etc. and even one going to the Navy Academy, so just because you're not in top 5-10% in class rank....it doesn't mean you can't make it. Just keep working hard and things will fall into place. Best of luck

 

[MemberLG]

I think you interpreted me stating my opinion as me complaining. I wasn't trying to complain, I was simply stating my opinion. I'm aware that life isn't fair, and that even if I try my very best, there is a good chance I won't get into a service academy. I just have to make the most of the hand I'm dealt.

To answer your questions, I honestly believe going to a "good school" has not benefited me very much, if at all. I'm not sure if this is true, but it's what I think. I would rather attend the school that gives me a best chance of getting into a service academy, not sure if that would be a bad one or a good one.

Yes, I was interpreting. But when you stated "That in my opinion is completely ridiculous. I did as well as I possibly could have done, and my class rank went down . . . " how am I supposed to interpret your posting?

I am also allowed to express my opinion.

I would argue that you attending a good school should have benefited you as your teachers and classmates should have positively contributed to who you are. I am assuming in your school that your teachers do not spent more time trying to keep students under control than actually teaching.

 

[MomWPgirl]

The education you received at a "good school" will benefit you more in the long run. I believe you will appreciate the fact once you get to college. You may not see the upside now....but you will.

 

[frenzymando]

Yes, I was interpreting. But when you stated "That in my opinion is completely ridiculous. I did as well as I possibly could have done, and my class rank went down . . . " how am I supposed to interpret your posting?

I am also allowed to express my opinion.

I would argue that you attending a good school should have benefited you as your teachers and classmates should have positively contributed to who you are. I am assuming in your school that your teachers do not spent more time trying to keep students under control than actually teaching.

So if I say "Prohibition is completely ridiculous" I am complaining? That is my opinion, it's what I believe, it's not complaining.

I never said you can't express your opinion...

I don't think attending a good school benefited me very much, if at all. It might benefit some people, but I don't think it helped me. I learn best when I am given a problem and I just try to solve it by myself, and if I encounter problems, it helps when a person(usually the teacher) explains to me the error(s) I am making. But generally, I am able to find the errors I am making and fix them myself, so most of the time the quality of my teacher and the intelligence of my peers is not a factor. For someone that learns best when a teacher lectures the class or when he or she works in groups, it probably does benefit him or her to go to a good school. But in my case, I don't think it did.

 

[MomWPgirl]

If you had a chance to visit some of the many schools in our country that do not offer a varied curriculum, AP courses, current technology and classrooms in which intelligent discussion is minimal due to the fact there is little knowledge of current events from your peers.....I think you might think otherwise. As I said earlier, I believe you will appreciate your school a bit later in life.

 

[MemberLG]

I don't think attending a good school benefited me very much, if at all. It might benefit some people, but I don't think it helped me. I learn best when I am given a problem and I just try to solve it by myself, and if I encounter problems, it helps when a person(usually the teacher) explains to me the error(s) I am making. But generally, I am able to find the errors I am making and fix them myself, so most of the time the quality of my teacher and the intelligence of my peers is not a factor. For someone that learns best when a teacher lectures the class or when he or she works in groups, it probably does benefit him or her to go to a good school. But in my case, I don't think it did.

If so, home schooling would have been a good option for you, as your rank would have been 1 of 1 and West Point would have relied more on your SAT/ACT scores.

I suspect your attend a school where students are more interested in learning and relatively well behaved. From my personal experience, I can tell you that having classmates that are not more interested in learning can be deteriment to one's learning and more challenging to learn.

 

[frenzymando]

If you had a chance to visit some of the many schools in our country that do not offer a varied curriculum, AP courses, current technology and classrooms in which intelligent discussion is minimal due to the fact there is little knowledge of current events from your peers.....I think you might think otherwise. As I said earlier, I believe you will appreciate your school a bit later in life.

I did overlook that, my school does offer classes that many others do not. I might appreciate my school later in life, but I doubt I will.

 

[frenzymando]

If so, home schooling would have been a good option for you, as your rank would have been 1 of 1 and West Point would have relied more on your SAT/ACT scores.

I suspect your attend a school where students are more interested in learning and relatively well behaved. From my personal experience, I can tell you that having classmates that are not more interested in learning can be deteriment to one's learning and more challenging to learn.

I wouldn't call the majority of my peers "well behaved", but I see that point you are trying to make. Going to a good school probably does benefit me in certain ways. But I'm not sure if the pros of going to a good school outweigh the cons.

I don't think I would have been better off being home schooled. I never would have gotten the chance to play football, earn letters, do JROTC, join NHS, etc. I also wouldn't have teachers to give me letters of recommendation, and I'm pretty sure most of my teachers liked/like me.

 

[AlexanderOrta]

I wouldn't call the majority of my peers "well behaved", but I see that point you are trying to make. Going to a good school probably does benefit me in certain ways. But I'm not sure if the pros of going to a good school outweigh the cons.

I don't think I would have been better off being home schooled. I never would have gotten the chance to play football, earn letters, do JROTC, join NHS, etc. I also wouldn't have teachers to give me letters of recommendation, and I'm pretty sure most of my teachers liked/like me.

Just for the record, I go to the second best school in the number one county in my state (Fl). So yes, you can consider my school to be a good school and to be very competitive. I have a 4.1 Weighted GPA and a 3.6 Unweighted GPA. Class rank of 91/461. SATs just barely over the MINIUM. And I have accepted an Appointment last Monday for USMA. I may be in outlier, but I definitely pulled my weight with leadership activities, wrote strong essays, have 2 jobs, and captain of Cross Country and Track and Field. I'm not here to brag how I got in, I'm here to show you that the admissions board looks at the whole package not just the academics. Focus on what you can change, and don't worry about anything else, you'll just make it A LOT harder on yourself. Trust me, been there done that.......

 

[NewJersey2019]

as your rank would have been 1 of 1 and West Point would have relied more on your SAT/ACT scores.

In my case coming from a non-ranking school, for what it's worth, USMA used my national percentile on standardized scores as my class rank. I scored a 34 on the ACT - the 99th percentile - and thus my rank was 1/100.

 

[bookreader]

My son is homeschooled, so his situation is similar to someone from a non-ranking school.

@AlexanderOrta - you make some excellent points. Like you, my son's SAT scores were not in the top percentile. They were good but not at the top (or even all that near it), but he also blew the doors off of other areas of the application.

@NewJersey2019 - what district are you from? We are in district 7. There is another class of 2019 CC in our town. Perhaps you'll meet at the May luncheon (hosted by the West Point Parents Club of NJ).

 

[MemberLG]

Just for the record, I go to the second best school in the number one county in my state (Fl). So yes, you can consider my school to be a good school and to be very competitive. I have a 4.1 Weighted GPA and a 3.6 Unweighted GPA. Class rank of 91/461. SATs just barely over the MINIUM. And I have accepted an Appointment last Monday for USMA. I may be in outlier, but I definitely pulled my weight with leadership activities, wrote strong essays, have 2 jobs, and captain of Cross Country and Track and Field. I'm not here to brag how I got in, I'm here to show you that the admissions board looks at the whole package not just the academics. Focus on what you can change, and don't worry about anything else, you'll just make it A LOT harder on yourself. Trust me, been there done that.......

Congrautlations on your appointment.

We have no idea what your other qualification/accomplishment are, so my question is what don't we know about you or you did not disclose. There could be other "reasons" (i.e. once a life time event that no one from your Congressisonal district wanted to attend West Point other than you; no double nomination pratice by your Congressman where better candidates before you might have senatorial and/or Presidential nomination so they didn't get the Congressional nomination; different nomination category (i.e. SDAV), and etc) why you got an appointment with "91/461" or "SATs just barely over the MINIMUM" than your "whole package." There are many factors that could make the difference between appointment or no appointment, but just to make a statement that "the admissions board looks at the whole package" is a stretch.

 

[NewJersey2019]

@NewJersey2019 - what district are you from? We are in district 7. There is another class of 2019 CC in our town. Perhaps you'll meet at the May luncheon (hosted by the West Point Parents Club of NJ).

I'm from NJ-11. Yes, I'm pretty sure I'll be there but I'm not positive. I will definitely be at the West Point Society dinner this Saturday - what about you?

 

[bookreader]

No, we won't be at the dinner this Saturday. That one is too big of an ouch on the pocketbook.

 

[FalconsRock]

I agree with you to a certain extent, but I don't think the class rank system is completely fair. I have gotten 2 B's in my entire high school career(everything else is A's), I've taken 3 AP classes and 6 honors classes, my GPA is 3.85 unweighted and 4.3 weighted yet my class rank is only 66/426, which as you probably know, is below average by service academy standards. My class rank isn't "mediocre" because I haven't worked as hard as my peers and I'm not as smart as them, but because there are A LOT of really smart people at my school. Last year, 25%, yes 25%, of our seniors scored a 30 or above on the ACT. I don't know if you understand how amazing that is, but it's really, really amazing. 25%. Last semester I got all A's(my school works on an 18 week course system) yet my class rank actually got worse, by two spots. That in my opinion is completely ridiculous. I did as well as I possibly could have done, and my class rank went down. I've basically gotten to a point where no matter how well I do, no matter how hard I work, I can't improve, and that in my opinion is wrong.

Sorry if it looked like I was ranting, wasn't my intention. I wasn't trying to insult your opinion either, just stating my point of view. And I don't want to sound arrogant or anything, but I honestly believe if I went to an average high school, educational wise, I would live up to the service academy's standards when it comes to class rank. But I don't, and I can play the if game as much as I want and it won't change anything. My class rank is going to be below par, and there's nothing I can do to change it. Which as I said earlier, is wrong in my opinion.

frenzymando, I feel your pain. My DD has a 3.98 GPA with a weighted GPA of 4.85 and her class rank is 8/44 which puts her in the 18% of her class, not the top 1, 3, or even 10%. She happens to go to a school where all the kids are extremely smart. No matter how hard she works, she will most likely stay ranked #8. She only has 2 A minuses and all the rest As. But, I don't think you should worry, because they look at a lot more than just academics and they will also have your school profile and they will know how tough the curriculum is. It sounds like you are doing all the right things.

 

[frenzymando]

In my case coming from a non-ranking school, for what it's worth, USMA used my national percentile on standardized scores as my class rank. I scored a 34 on the ACT - the 99th percentile - and thus my rank was 1/100.

Anyone know if I will receive a bump in my class rank because of my school's profile?

Profile 2014-15:

438 seniors
18 National Merit Finalists
2 National achievement scholars
15 National Merit commended
7 Presidential scholar candidates
1 Presidential scholar finalist
126(29%) of seniors with a 30 or above on the ACT
Nationally 5% of people score a 30 or above on the ACT
Average ACT composite: 24.6
National average ACT composite: 20.6
Average SAT math: 583
Average SAT reading: 582

26 AP courses offered
28 Honors courses offered
173 Total AP awards
95 AP scholars
35 AP scholars with honors
43 AP scholars with distinction
8 AP national scholars

69% of seniors going to 4 year universities
25% of seniors going to 2 year community colleges
340 seniors received scholarships
985 total scholarship offers reported
3% going to military
3% workforce/undecided

 

[jculligan]

Anyone know if I will receive a bump in my class rank because of my school's profile?

Profile 2014-15:

438 seniors
18 National Merit Finalists
2 National achievement scholars
15 National Merit commended
7 Presidential scholar candidates
1 Presidential scholar finalist
126(29%) of seniors with a 30 or above on the ACT
Nationally 5% of people score a 30 or above on the ACT
Average ACT composite: 24.6
National average ACT composite: 20.6
Average SAT math: 583
Average SAT reading: 582

26 AP courses offered
28 Honors courses offered
173 Total AP awards
95 AP scholars
35 AP scholars with honors
43 AP scholars with distinction
8 AP national scholars

69% of seniors going to 4 year universities
25% of seniors going to 2 year community colleges
340 seniors received scholarships
985 total scholarship offers reported
3% going to military
3% workforce/undecided

You probably will, but be aware that there are always schools that are more competitive. The high school I go to has a 28.8 average ACT score and 99% attend 4-year colleges or universities. 21 National Merit Finalists, more than half are state scholars and AP scholars. For a class of 300, thats not too shabby. I know that the service academies will look positively at my schools stats, and they will for yours too. I also know that being challenged academically everyday has helped me in the long run. Don't worry so much. Your high school's stats are impossible for you to control.