Rat Mom

We had a guy our graduation week. My take was - he finally got caught because there just seemed no way that you can suddenly make that kind of an error at the end of it all.
Regardless- - it's a very depressing feeling when you watch the honor court roll out in the middle of the night and hear that name read off. But there isn't anyone there for more than a couple of weeks who doesn't understand that the honor code is a one shot deal and you don't play games with honor issues.

Just how does a cadet go home and try and explain that one. Abject humiliation. It is hard not to visualize that pain. Still, them are the rules and a First, above all, knows them. Frankly, the single sanction system is one of the big reasons my DS picked VMI. Sometimes, bright lines are the only thing that will suffice.
 
I heard about this too--apparently happened this past weekend. Definitely made an impression and my DS said the beating of the drum would be something he will always remember for sure...very eerie
 
What is a 'breach of certification?'

VMI Cadets certify that they got back on time to barracks, that they are where they are supposed to be, etc. If they don't or aren't (e.g., didn't make it back from leave on time) they are supposed to "bone" (self report) themselves.
 
Ah, thank you. I wasn't sure if it was strictly an offence related to academics or could be something broader.
 
DS received his first 5 days confinement. 5 demerits and some penalty tours to match planned this weekend I guess. DH stopped in and our DS was approved a permit to dine. DS failed to read it completely and didn't notice that you must be off Post within 15 min of when you sign out.(Parents may want to note this in case your Rat doesn't read everything either) His 4 and 6 yr old nephews wanted to watch them fire the cannon and he stayed on Post too long to do that and someone noticed. I have no idea how but they did.
He is taking it in stride at this point. His Dad is upset with himself because he asked DS if it was okay to stay and let the boys watch as they fire the cannon. DS had no issue with it because he failed to pay attention to everything in the permit. Its hard watching them make him responsible for himself and teaching him the importance of paying attention to details. It seems like a minor thing, yet I realize the lessons learned are invaluable and won't be forgotten. I am proud of how he is handling it. He said it was his own fault and he has it coming... it will be over with in a week. He doesn't think it's a big deal. Only regret is he can't go with his host family on Sunday after church. Amazing how a bad thing like that happens and he is good with it all really. I can see how he is changing his thinking after only a month. No whining or excuses.
As many have posted previously...The drum out really impacted his perspective on life at VMI. I think it's a great source of pride when you REALLY live by the honor code and it's not something that is in the books but not enforced. They are told and told and told some more about the consequences, but seeing it was "surreal" according to DS. He said that after ward the Honor Court members talked to the "Rats" about what had just happened and all his BR's had the same astonished look on their faces. It was something that he will never forget.
 
Darn, sorry to hear that! Sounds like he took it well, owned up to it and will get through it just fine tho!
 
Not to sweat- he will see a lot more than this before he is thru. One unnamed cadet of my intimate acquaintance had around 60 pts last semester alone. When I asked if he doesn't get kind of tired of the routine- he replied that actually he has gotten kind of used to it and he now looks at it as a chance to think about random stuff!
At anyrate- confinement and pts are just another part of the adventure.
 
So when do they do the PTs? Doesn't it cut into study time?

DS did 1 yesterday and is going to knock out 3 more today hopefully and the final one next Saturday. He said they aren't that bad. He can schedule them when its convenient to not interfere. He is the type of kid that can only study for about an hour or so at a time and needs to get away form it and take a break. He will study..do a tour..study..do a tour...so for him it will be fine. Once they get the RDC training out of the way weekends aren't that busy and can be "boring" once the brass is shined and the homework is done. He is not as overwhelmed as he was 3 weeks ago that is certain:thumb:
 
DS did 1 yesterday and is going to knock out 3 more today hopefully and the final one next Saturday. He said they aren't that bad. He can schedule them when its convenient to not interfere. He is the type of kid that can only study for about an hour or so at a time and needs to get away form it and take a break. He will study..do a tour..study..do a tour...so for him it will be fine. Once they get the RDC training out of the way weekends aren't that busy and can be "boring" once the brass is shined and the homework is done. He is not as overwhelmed as he was 3 weeks ago that is certain:thumb:

Sounds like he is handling it well. I didn't realize that they could pick their own times. My DS is still sounding very time pressured
 
Mine seems to vary day by day, mood by mood as to whether a time crunch, if he is totally stressed he has NO TIME (although it was pointed out to him that he maybe had too much time if he kept emailing me every 10 seconds)
Had a prestrain on Friday and saw part of the movies in the barracks so got a little downtime.

....appeared to be more relaxed yesterday after 2 hours of something with the Cadre...DS was stressing out pretty bad about it (apparently PT or something) but he sent an email as soon as they were done and he was pretty excited to have made it through. He described the 'euphoria of having 400 rats come marching back to barracks, running through the gate and chanting Brother Rats' the whole time...apparently wanted to make sure everyone knew they were back :shake: I said he was probably glad to get it over with and he said yeah, it definitely built up brother rat spirit and he didn't want to quit and be 'that guy'....so hopefully he at least peaked around the corner to see that he just might make it through :wink:
 
Mine seems to vary day by day, mood by mood as to whether a time crunch, if he is totally stressed he has NO TIME (although it was pointed out to him that he maybe had too much time if he kept emailing me every 10 seconds)
Had a prestrain on Friday and saw part of the movies in the barracks so got a little downtime.

....appeared to be more relaxed yesterday after 2 hours of something with the Cadre...DS was stressing out pretty bad about it (apparently PT or something) but he sent an email as soon as they were done and he was pretty excited to have made it through. He described the 'euphoria of having 400 rats come marching back to barracks, running through the gate and chanting Brother Rats' the whole time...apparently wanted to make sure everyone knew they were back :shake: I said he was probably glad to get it over with and he said yeah, it definitely built up brother rat spirit and he didn't want to quit and be 'that guy'....so hopefully he at least peaked around the corner to see that he just might make it through :wink:

I think there is a lot of pressure on these kids not to quit and "be that guy" and thus let their BRs down. On balance, its a good thing, as it allows them to get through the next day. It becomes a point of pride. It's still a culture shock, but they're learning fast. They have now been there a whole month plus 5 days. The ones who were going to quit on the first adversity have done so -- they have lost 35 so far. The remainder are still working on it. I think parents have to let their kids know how proud they are and keep sending cookies and whatever else they need to make life a little easier. My kid wanted me to send him a hot plate so make coffee/tea until I pointed out to him that hot plates were prohibited in barracks. He got cookies instead. :thumb:
 
DS did 1 yesterday and is going to knock out 3 more today hopefully and the final one next Saturday. He said they aren't that bad. He can schedule them when its convenient to not interfere. He is the type of kid that can only study for about an hour or so at a time and needs to get away form it and take a break. He will study..do a tour..study..do a tour...so for him it will be fine. Once they get the RDC training out of the way weekends aren't that busy and can be "boring" once the brass is shined and the homework is done. He is not as overwhelmed as he was 3 weeks ago that is certain:thumb:

Now you can schedule your own PTs? :eek:

I understand that "PT details" exist during the week to help get rid of them, but when I was there that was limited to a few every week. Tours were marched on Saturday and Sunday in the afternoon (assuming no football game, which counted as three tours). Effectively, that meant you couldn't leave post that weekend (which is why they did it that way).

As a Rat, marching a PT isn't that big of a deal. It's not like you're going anywhere anyway. It only sucks when you are a First, have a car, and have a place to go.

My grades were good enough to "merit off" a few errant PTs which came my way as a Second and First. Still, I have also spent time marching them. My advice is to get NCO and officer rank the last two years so as to have a saber instead of a rifle. It makes the walk easier. :shake:
 
Now you can schedule your own PTs? :eek:
I was wondering the same thing! There has to be a built-in mechanism for accountability somewhere, other than the fact that you can't leave Post if you have an outstanding PT balance (even if you aren't on confinement).

As long as there's an accountability mechanism (like a minimum requirement for PTs marched in a week), I'm cool with it. But the primary deterrant for me was that I didn't have time to waste six hours on a weekend, since that was my best time for getting stuff done. Especially by the time I hit First Class year.

I understand that "PT details" exist during the week to help get rid of them, but when I was there that was limited to a few every week. Tours were marched on Saturday and Sunday in the afternoon (assuming no football game, which counted as three tours). Effectively, that meant you couldn't leave post that weekend (which is why they did it that way).
I think it was my Second Class year (2007-2008) when they completely revised the way PTs work. No PT details for anyone with under 20 PTs. The guys who get #5's (10 demerits, six weeks confinement, 30 PTs + loss of rank or other Corps leadership position) and above can do details in addition to regularly scheduled PT sessions (two on Wednesday afternoon, three on Saturday, three on Sunday), but once you hit that Magic #20, you're marching the rest off.

On the flip side, we were allowed to rack up 20 demos per demerit period before getting excess demerit PTs for the next period, instead of the 15 demerit limit during my first two years. The logic behind this was that the cut off for conduct probation was 75 demerits in one semester, so you could get excess demerits each period and still not end up on con pro. That policy makes a ton of sense, and we all appreciated the extra freebie unauthorized haydown. :thumb:

Jackie M. Briski '09
First Class PVT (Ret.)
 
I was wondering the same thing! There has to be a built-in mechanism for accountability somewhere, other than the fact that you can't leave Post if you have an outstanding PT balance (even if you aren't on confinement).

As long as there's an accountability mechanism (like a minimum requirement for PTs marched in a week), I'm cool with it. But the primary deterrant for me was that I didn't have time to waste six hours on a weekend, since that was my best time for getting stuff done. Especially by the time I hit First Class year.


I think it was my Second Class year (2007-2008) when they completely revised the way PTs work. No PT details for anyone with under 20 PTs. The guys who get #5's (10 demerits, six weeks confinement, 30 PTs + loss of rank or other Corps leadership position) and above can do details in addition to regularly scheduled PT sessions (two on Wednesday afternoon, three on Saturday, three on Sunday), but once you hit that Magic #20, you're marching the rest off.

On the flip side, we were allowed to rack up 20 demos per demerit period before getting excess demerit PTs for the next period, instead of the 15 demerit limit during my first two years. The logic behind this was that the cut off for conduct probation was 75 demerits in one semester, so you could get excess demerits each period and still not end up on con pro. That policy makes a ton of sense, and we all appreciated the extra freebie unauthorized haydown. :thumb:

Jackie M. Briski '09
First Class PVT (Ret.)

I don't think that the information is correct about scheduling your own PTs- not sure where that came from. I think Jackie has the current practice correct. My contact seems to have zero flexibility (he's walked about 100 of these in the last year so I am pretty sure he has figured out the most effective way to get around them!) - his Sat/ Sunday and Wed afternoon are pretty much reserved for PTs, and as Jackie has mentioned- he hasn't had many opportunities to skate on PTs by working details (which was a common practice back in the "olden days". )
 
and as Jackie has mentioned- he hasn't had many opportunities to skate on PTs by working details (which was a common practice back in the "olden days". )

That wasn't just common back in the Old Corps. As a rat and a Third, I used to get a 5-1-5 on Monday afternoon, and have all 5 PT's worked off through PT details before the Wednesday afternoon PT session formed up. :shake:
 
I was wondering the same thing! There has to be a built-in mechanism for accountability somewhere, other than the fact that you can't leave Post if you have an outstanding PT balance (even if you aren't on confinement).

As long as there's an accountability mechanism (like a minimum requirement for PTs marched in a week), I'm cool with it. But the primary deterrant for me was that I didn't have time to waste six hours on a weekend, since that was my best time for getting stuff done. Especially by the time I hit First Class year.


I think it was my Second Class year (2007-2008) when they completely revised the way PTs work. No PT details for anyone with under 20 PTs. The guys who get #5's (10 demerits, six weeks confinement, 30 PTs + loss of rank or other Corps leadership position) and above can do details in addition to regularly scheduled PT sessions (two on Wednesday afternoon, three on Saturday, three on Sunday), but once you hit that Magic #20, you're marching the rest off.

On the flip side, we were allowed to rack up 20 demos per demerit period before getting excess demerit PTs for the next period, instead of the 15 demerit limit during my first two years. The logic behind this was that the cut off for conduct probation was 75 demerits in one semester, so you could get excess demerits each period and still not end up on con pro. That policy makes a ton of sense, and we all appreciated the extra freebie unauthorized haydown. :thumb:

Jackie M. Briski '09
First Class PVT (Ret.)


I like that you get 20 demos per period.

Can you still use merits to get rid of PTs? Or if it's under 20, do you still have to march?

When I was a First, I had a few TACs who didn't want to climb the steps, and it seemed I got dinged on room inspection a hell of a lot more that last year than in the previous three. I went excess once or twice and sucked up a couple of PTs.

The worst was the "Room not in MI Order" Bone. I sucked up two 5-1-5 penalties (one as a Second, one as a First) because of it being my turn to be room orderly. My roommates never got nailed for that!!!:thumbdown:

Ah, fun memories. There's nothing like walking in a circle for hours on the weekend. :shake:
 
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