Reapplying - HELP ASAP

[mjm]

@jct95

I have read through all of the posts on this thread and if you re -read the sticky and the posts on your own thread you will see that all of your questions have been answered. In my humble opinion I feel that you are looking for affirmation ... which no one can give you . Every case is different .. not only in SA admissions but in civilian college admissions as well. There are NO guarantees.

You should continue to stay in shape,improve your SAT scores, take the classes prescribed by the moderators, and re-apply for your MOC nom.

 

[mjm]

I just thought I woul dcopy and paste what was the first post in the sticky that talks about re-applying



Reapplying -- What To Do

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UDPATED
You got the TWE this year and are considering reapplying for next year. Now what?

First, USNA looks favorably on those who reapply. They like the persistence and the maturity of post h.s. candidates. And, remember, about 1/3 of each entering class has a year of post h.s. education. However, you have to address your "weakness" from your original application.

Second, CONTACT CGO. I suggest waiting until late May or June, when things are a bit slower. Call your Regional Director and ask what kept you from getting an appt this year (unless it's a nom). They will know. You may also want to talk to your BGO. Don't guess. Don't assume. If you don't know what held you back, you can't "fix" it and, until you do, your chances of admission don't increase.

Third, enroll at a 4-yr college -- not a community college unless this is all you can financially afford to do, in which case make sure USNA knows this is the reason. For those who need additional academic preparation, a "prep school" such as those included in the Foundation program, may be a great option. The college itself isn't all that important. Take the following courses -- Calc, Chem w/lab, English, History and, if possible Physics. Get As or high Bs. I cannot emphasize this enough. Taking and doing well in these plebe courses demonstrates more than anything that you can handle the load at USNA. Take other courses or get low Bs and below and it's unlikely your status with USNA will change. Just being honest here.

Fourth, with respect to leadership, sports and ECAs . . . USNA realizes there are limits on what freshman can do, especially at large universities. However, you should look for ways to make yourself stand out. For example, do something productive during the summer, such as getting a job or helping at a non-profit. Once at college, find a small project (i.e., fundraiser) that you can lead or take a large role in leading. Play organized sports (intramurals, club sports, etc.). Your grades are still of PRIMARY importance so don't go so overboard with activities that your grades slip. But at the same time, try to do some things that show USNA you can handle academics AND the other stuff that USNA will throw at you.

Fifth, ask for a new BGO. The reason is that you want another BGO to say that you're great. Your current BGO is unlikely to change his/her opinion of you and a fresh perspective is always a good thing; if you liked your first BGO, you can always keep in contact. A second great rec helps. If you're assigned the same BGO, ask the Area Coordinator for someone else.

Sixth, check with your RD about retaking SATs/ACTs. USNA considers standardized tests to be a predictor of college success. The better predictor is how well you actually do in college "plebe" courses. Thus, focus on your grades in college vs. practicing to retake tests. However, if your SATs were low, ask your RD whether you should retake them because, in some cases, it might help.

Seventh, you do NOT need to do a college prep school. Enroll in college. That way, if your USNA plans don't succeed or you change your mind, you have a full year at a real college. There is no evidence of which I'm aware that a post-h.s. prep school helps more than a real college.

Doing all the above is not a guarantee of an appointment. But, for those who remain determined, it's the best path.

Best of luck to all of you!

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Last edited by usna1985; 13th December 2012 at 03:42 PM. Reason: Modified some recommendations

 

[kinnem]

Understood, I can't tell you how much I appreciate all your help - again thanks.

I just have several questions for you, I hope I'm asking the right questions...

- unfortunately, my view on attaining an appointment was a bit flawed, to state the obvious I'm competing for a nomination - against the people in my area. I know you can't talk for other MOC's and local representatives, but in your experience do they look favorably upon re applicants? Do they admire the determination? And for the re applicants you've helped, have the vast majority received nominations?

- as I stated earlier, I'm retaking the SAT's in June - and I plan on taking them again in September, November. In order to be competitive for a nomination, I'd need a high sat score coupled with a solid GPA. In regards to the Academy, I know you've stated that College/plebe level courses are most important - academics wise...and I understand that there is no concrete, definitive GPA/score. But is college level GPA the single most important aspect as to being deemed academically qualified? (The Academy, not MOC's).

- Ninnem, and other posters have hammered the point home that it all matters...which it does. But in the reapplication thread, you mentioned that the USNA understands that freshman can't do much. In regards to ECA'S and sports, how much of an impact could they make? I got the impression that provided I still want to attend the USNA next year, I should focus on my grades, then my grades, and strictly my grades. Correct? And provided one (for a lack of a better word) "destroys" the CFA (100+ push-ups, 100+ sit-ups, 20+ pull-ups, 6:00 min mile) could that have a huge effect on ones application? (I get it that it all matters, but is it dramatic?)

- and lastly, I read through the reapplication thread several times. I noticed that several people mentioned that they reapplied (twice in some cases!) but were turned down, upon further discovery I found out that they weren't taking plebe level courses (the courses varied, and one poster who managed to take those courses got C's). I understand this is a broad generalization, but in all your years - provided one does take plebe level courses and does well in them, how are there chances? In other words, have you seen many college freshman/sophomore re applicants receive appointments or is it few and far between (provided they follow your instructions, and do well)?

Thanks again, your advice is great. Have a nice day.

I certainly can't answer all these questions but would at least like to give my opinion on ECs and sports. Keep in mind this is just my opinion.

I think the statement in the sticky that you can't do much as a freshman was with respect to leadership roles in ECs. Obviously the more formal leadership roles will be filled by upperclassmen.

In some sense, ECs and sports are marginally important and may, in fact, put you over the top... which is perhaps another way of saying they're important too, but grades come first.

There is generally plenty of opportunity to participate in ECs and sports in college. Many schools have intramural and club teams. NROTC even grants a ribbon for participation in intramural sports - so you know the academies will care about it. There will also be plenty of opportunities for community service, or participating on a "green" council and maybe even leading some small project, or one of the teams on a small project. In addition to the athleticism and civic mindedness, the boards are looking to see that you can multi-task and handle a variety of simultaneous obligations and commitments beyond your studies. After all, thats exactly what you will be required to do at an academy, especially the participation in sports.

If you do participate in these things, be sure to pick things you're interested in and not just to get a check in a box. It makes it a lot more fun and easier to accomplish while maintaining those good grades.

 

[MemberLG]

- unfortunately, my view on attaining an appointment was a bit flawed, to state the obvious I'm competing for a nomination - against the people in my area. I know you can't talk for other MOC's and local representatives, but in your experience do they look favorably upon re applicants? Do they admire the determination? And for the re applicants you've helped, have the vast majority received nominations?

I think I understand why you are asking all thsse questions. My recommendation is to stop as you are not focusing on right things. Perhaps you are tryng to talk yourself into reapplying or not reapplying based untangiable things.

The questions you should be asking is how do I become more competitive candidate with factors that are within your control.

I served on several nomination boards. From my experience, we looked favorablyy upon reapplicants, we admire their determination, and vast majority received nominations. However, rarely being a reapplicant was the main reason why a candidate got the nomination. In theory, with two similiarly qualified candidates, usually a reapplicant will win the tie breaker. But rarely, there are two similiarly qualiifed candidates that the only difference is how many times they applied.

 

[jct95]

I think I understand why you are asking all thsse questions. My recommendation is to stop as you are not focusing on right things. Perhaps you are tryng to talk yourself into reapplying or not reapplying based untangiable things.

The questions you should be asking is how do I become more competitive candidate with factors that are within your control.

I served on several nomination boards. From my experience, we looked favorablyy upon reapplicants, we admire their determination, and vast majority received nominations. However, rarely being a reapplicant was the main reason why a candidate got the nomination. In theory, with two similiarly qualified candidates, usually a reapplicant will win the tie breaker. But rarely, there are two similiarly qualiifed candidates that the only difference is how many times they applied.

Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely re-applying - without a doubt. I apolgize if I'm coming off as being annoying (I probably am, I apologize). Being that you were on an admissions board, what would you advise a reapplicant to do? (ECA's, sports, SAT's)

 

[MemberLG]

Don't get me wrong, I'm definitely re-applying - without a doubt. I apolgize if I'm coming off as being annoying (I probably am, I apologize). Being that you were on an admissions board, what would you advise a reapplicant to do? (ECA's, sports, SAT's)

Perhaps improving your reading skills. I am half kidding. My post specifically stated "nomination" not "admissions." Sometimes, I think it's a generation gap as we, older folks, think differently from younger folks. In a way, regardless what your intention is, keep asking questions that has been answered or ignoring the answers given is annoying. But I think most of us want to help you achieve your goal, that's why some of us keep replying to your "annoying" questions. I also worked with an "annoying" candidate, but he was a good kid and he ended up getting an appointment.

My advice is pretty much same as most of other posters. Three things I will add are that my personal opinion is that SAT/ACT scores are still important to reapplicants (I provide my rational on a previous post), learning more about Navy/Marines, and applying to the SAs. Getting straight As at your college is great, but at a regular college you have free time, whereas at a SA you don't. In my mind, someone getting As at a good college doesn't mean he or she will get same grades at a SA. We haven't discussed why you want to attend Naval Academy. The reason should be serving our country/becoming a Naval or Marine Corps officer. I think this was a line from a movie, something along the line of "I want to join the Marine Corps because it's best of the best of the best." Sounds okay, but does it really make sense? You might be surprised but many candidates initially give good answers on why they want to attend a SA. Typical answer starts with great school, visited, someone I know attended, and etc. In my mind, these are okay reasons, but not good. Lastly, why only Naval Academy if your desire is to serve our country. Why can't you serve our country as an Army, Air Force, or Coast Guard officer?

Good luck. I do like your persistance.

 

[jct95]

Perhaps improving your reading skills. I am half kidding. My post specifically stated "nomination" not "admissions." Sometimes, I think it's a generation gap as we, older folks, think differently from younger folks. In a way, regardless what your intention is, keep asking questions that has been answered or ignoring the answers given is annoying. But I think most of us want to help you achieve your goal, that's why some of us keep replying to your "annoying" questions. I also worked with an "annoying" candidate, but he was a good kid and he ended up getting an appointment.

My advice is pretty much same as most of other posters. Three things I will add are that my personal opinion is that SAT/ACT scores are still important to reapplicants (I provide my rational on a previous post), learning more about Navy/Marines, and applying to the SAs. Getting straight As at your college is great, but at a regular college you have free time, whereas at a SA you don't. In my mind, someone getting As at a good college doesn't mean he or she will get same grades at a SA. We haven't discussed why you want to attend Naval Academy. The reason should be serving our country/becoming a Naval or Marine Corps officer. I think this was a line from a movie, something along the line of "I want to join the Marine Corps because it's best of the best of the best." Sounds okay, but does it really make sense? You might be surprised but many candidates initially give good answers on why they want to attend a SA. Typical answer starts with great school, visited, someone I know attended, and etc. In my mind, these are okay reasons, but not good. Lastly, why only Naval Academy if your desire is to serve our country. Why can't you serve our country as an Army, Air Force, or Coast Guard officer?

Good luck. I do like your persistance.

Understood. Again I apologize for any inconveniences, I truly do appreciate the advice.

To expand upon serving, I want to serve as a SEAL OIC. It's my dream, it always has been - and I'm not afraid to talk about it.

 

[jct95]

And for Kinnem, MemberLG, usna, what ECA's would you recommend for a college student/reapplicant? What sort of activities would an MOC look upon favorably? Thanks.

 

[usna1985]

And for Kinnem, MemberLG, usna, what ECA's would you recommend for a college student/reapplicant? What sort of activities would an MOC look upon favorably? Thanks.

You're kind of missing the point. You should participate in those activities that interest you. Successful applicants bring all sorts of activities and interests to the table -- art, music, journalism, athletics, Scouting, drama, and on and on.

In h.s., the keys are that you maintain continuity in at least some activities and that you find ways to lead. It need not be as an officer of an organization. For example, your community needs someone to organize an activity -- a fair, a fundraiser, an animal adoption day, Special Olympics day, etc. You take charge of the project, or a portion of the project, and drive it to a successful conclusion.

As a college freshman, you may not have the time or opportunity to lead as much as you did in h.s. Pick an activity you enjoy -- maybe one you also pursued in h.s. -- and continue it. So, for example, if you were Editor-in-Chief of your h.s. newspaper or yearbook, you might continue to work in journalism in college -- perhaps as a reporter or writer or photographer. You're not expected to run the college newspaper as a freshman. However, if you're burned out in journalism, maybe you can run an event for Big Brothers/Big Sisters if that activity interests you. Or organize an outing to visit people in a nursing home.

Trust me, if you're passionate about an ECA, that will come out in your interviews, etc. and if you're not . . . it won't. It's not simply about checking boxes.

 

[jct95]

You're kind of missing the point. You should participate in those activities that interest you. Successful applicants bring all sorts of activities and interests to the table -- art, music, journalism, athletics, Scouting, drama, and on and on.

In h.s., the keys are that you maintain continuity in at least some activities and that you find ways to lead. It need not be as an officer of an organization. For example, your community needs someone to organize an activity -- a fair, a fundraiser, an animal adoption day, Special Olympics day, etc. You take charge of the project, or a portion of the project, and drive it to a successful conclusion.

As a college freshman, you may not have the time or opportunity to lead as much as you did in h.s. Pick an activity you enjoy -- maybe one you also pursued in h.s. -- and continue it. So, for example, if you were Editor-in-Chief of your h.s. newspaper or yearbook, you might continue to work in journalism in college -- perhaps as a reporter or writer or photographer. You're not expected to run the college newspaper as a freshman. However, if you're burned out in journalism, maybe you can run an event for Big Brothers/Big Sisters if that activity interests you. Or organize an outing to visit people in a nursing home.

Trust me, if you're passionate about an ECA, that will come out in your interviews, etc. and if you're not . . . it won't. It's not simply about checking boxes.

Understood, I asked this before if you could be so kind to answer it I would appreciate it.
- and lastly, I read through the reapplication thread several times. I noticed that several people mentioned that they reapplied (twice in some cases!) but were turned down, upon further discovery I found out that they weren't taking plebe level courses (the courses varied, and one poster who managed to take those courses got C's). I understand this is a broad generalization, but in all your years provided one does take plebe level courses and does well in them, how are there chances? In other words, have you seen many college freshman/sophomore re applicants receive appointments or is it few and far between (provided they follow your instructions, and do well)?

 

[jct95]

*To caveat that with I understand you can't give concrete details or facts

 

[MemberLG]

Hindsight is 20\20 as a reapplicant I didn't do most of things I am telling you to do. I did not retake SAT or ACT, but my ACT was pretty high, didn't do any ECA other than ROTC, and my college was pass fail first semester freshman year.

I was lucky. I usually joke that if I was applying now I wouldn't have gotten in.

 

[jct95]

My final question for a while but USNA 1985, not to be a pest, but how many college reapplicants have you seen receive appointments? Is if few and far between? Thanks.

 

[usna1985]

In more than a dozen years, I've had 2 candidates complete the reapplication process -- both within the past 5 years. One was admitted; one was not.

I wasn't their BGO during the second application cycle b/c (per my suggestion in the sticky) I facilitated their getting a new BGO. However, both kept me informed of their progress.

Both attended 4-year civilian colleges. I don't know specifics of their college year. IOW, I don't know the courses they took, how well they did, what ECAs they were involved in, etc.

For privacy reasons, I can't -- and won't -- give more specifics about either of them than what is posted above.

 

[jct95]

In more than a dozen years, I've had 2 candidates complete the reapplication process -- both within the past 5 years. One was admitted; one was not.

I wasn't their BGO during the second application cycle b/c (per my suggestion in the sticky) I facilitated their getting a new BGO. However, both kept me informed of their progress.

Both attended 4-year civilian colleges. I don't know specifics of their college year. IOW, I don't know the courses they took, how well they did, what ECAs they were involved in, etc.

For privacy reasons, I can't -- and won't -- give more specifics about either of them than what is posted above.

Stupid question; please ignore

 

[GoSox]

Understood.

I'm assuming its imperative that I demand a new BGO, which I will. Do you by chance know he they weren't admitted the first time Around? Did they not receive a nomination, etc, etc?

Jct95, you are asking so many repetitive questions that this almost seems like a spoof thread. On the chance this is real, do you understand that hearing details about the original packages of two re-applicants from one BGO gives you no meaningful information?

Your SAT scores are fairly low, you need to bring them up. In college you should try for all As and nobody can tell you if one B will keep you out or all As will get you in. Anybody who has been to an SA knows a bunch of people who got in after 1-2 years at college, so it's clearly possible. What YOUR chances are, nobody can say. If you are in a less competitive district or are in a group (eg under-represented minority) that the Navy is interested in, that might help -- but we can't say how much because that can't be known. Intelligence types sometimes talk about secrets and mysteries. Secrets can be uncovered, mysteries can't be. How your package will be regarded is a mystery because (1) we don't know all the variables; and (2) we can't predict the future.

If you want this, study your a-- off for SATs and in college and re-apply and then cross your fingers.

good luck.

 

[jct95]

Jct95, you are asking so many repetitive questions that this almost seems like a spoof thread. On the chance this is real, do you understand that hearing details about the original packages of two re-applicants from one BGO gives you no meaningful information?

Your SAT scores are fairly low, you need to bring them up. In college you should try for all As and nobody can tell you if one B will keep you out or all As will get you in. Anybody who has been to an SA knows a bunch of people who got in after 1-2 years at college, so it's clearly possible. What YOUR chances are, nobody can say. If you are in a less competitive district or are in a group (eg under-represented minority) that the Navy is interested in, that might help -- but we can't say how much because that can't be known. Intelligence types sometimes talk about secrets and mysteries. Secrets can be uncovered, mysteries can't be. How your package will be regarded is a mystery because (1) we don't know all the variables; and (2) we can't predict the future.

If you want this, study your a-- off for SATs and in college and re-apply and then cross your fingers.

good luck.

Understood.

 

[jct95]

Final question for a long time, but regarding the info in the reapplying sticky - is that what the USNA advises? Or is that based off of your experience usna1985?

Anyway, thanks for all the help thus far (I apologize for any inconveniences), and I'll do my best to receive an appointment

 

[Vista123]

Jct95, you are asking so many repetitive questions that this almost seems like a spoof thread.

I thought the same thing.

 

[GoSox]

Understood.

Again, good luck. It's good you are fired up, remember there are many roads to a commission and commanding troops or sailors or Marines or airmen is what it's all about in the end.