Recruiters

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Get used to the calls......you will continue to get calls for your son/daughter while they are at the Academy. My parents got calls throughout most of my years at Kings Point. They would tell the guys that I was at a service academy and they would still continue to call. It becomes amusing...

I must say those guys do some of the hardest day to day work this side of combat though, so I'll give them some credit.

Yup! My parents still get calls for me. My mother enjoys talking to the AF recruiters, they think its cool I'm at USAFA.
 
A marines recruiter called and gave me the same speech rattling off the same questions as always and when i told him i was going to be in the armed forces anyway (applicant to USNA, got 4 year NROTC scholarship), he was at a loss for words, first of all, he didnt even really know what the naval academy was, nor did he believe that i would be able to be a marine if i attended. I fully respect the recruiters and appreciate what they do and have no hostilaty towards them in any way, but i think that they should know a little more about the SA's, because that was not the first time a recruiter either didnt know what the naval academy was, or tried to talk me out of it.

Its a little bit frustrating
 
...I told him my son had been accepted to the air force academy. He said that if my son chose to join the army, they would help him pay for college??? I was sure that he didn't understand what I said. I repeated; "you did understand I said that my son has received an appointment to the air force academy; right?" He said he understood; but if my son would prefer to go to an "ACCREDITED SCHOOL" and have the Army pay for most of it, to make sure I have my son call him. Of course, all I could do was giggle and say; "That sounds great, I'll make sure he calls you."

Sorry for you Army supporters, but that goes beyond B.S.; this Army recruiter was a stupid moron. Anyway; take what they say with a grain of salt.

I think the same guy called us as well. After being told that my son had received an appointment to the USAFA, he asked "Well what is he going to do for college?"

After telling him that the academy was in fact one of the top colleges in the USA, he asked "Do they have a good AROTC program there?"
 
I doubt it was the same guy. A Marine recruiter would have asked about NROTC.

Anyhow, keep in mind that right after boot camp, many Pvt's and Pfc's go home on leave and work with their recruiter to help them make calls and such.

Many of these young men and women don't much if any knowledge of the SA's. Most of them have just finished 3 months of boot camp and have not received any further training, or experience yet.

So it's not uncommon for them to not know much about the SA's. Folks go into the enlisted corps for many reasons. Sometimes it's that they feel they would prefer to be part of the back bone of the Corps instead of the officers. Sometimes it's economics. Sometimes it's academics, college wasn't an option so they spent no time researching colleges or SA's.

I guess my point is this.... don't be frustrated or dissappointed if the person calling from a recruiting office doesn't know much about the SA's. They are patriots like the rest of us, and are just looking for the opportunity to tell you about the branch of service that they are in.

jb
 
JB; I might give some slack to the 18 year old enlisted who is "helping" out. But when the actual recruiter calls, there is not reason in the world they shouldn't know about academies. Even the basics; like it's a "COLLEGE" and that you come out as an officer. If the army recruiter knows that the army will pay for college; and has heard of ROTC; there's no excuse (Other than not really knowing their job) that they shouldn't know what the academies are.
 
Adding to what ChristCorp said, I don't think that there really is any constructive reason for convincing someone to turn down a Service Academy and enlist. Especially when they are told by the people they call what the Academies' goals are. I'm not saying enlisting is bad, but if the academies are pushing out military officers, what constructive difference does it make for our country to convince someone otherwise? Especially when the facts are skewed purposely.
 
Folks - You guys are living in a bubble. You are living in a military/service academy bubble. Most of you have probably already figured out that most of "mainstream" America (whatever that is) has very little knowledge of Service Academies.
I am willing to bet that the 'average' American who has heard of West Point doesn't know that it's a service academy or what service academies are.
Many people don't even connect West Point with USMA or the United States Military Academy.
In middle America - they know what Police Academies and Fire academies are but not so much on the service academies.

Recruiters come from mainstream America. They only know what they know. Most young enlisted (pvt's etc) probably have never heard of West Point or what West Point is. The likelyhood that a young Army recruiter has never heard of or knows what the Air Force Academy is pretty good and certainly not out of the realm of possibilities.

Being a recruiter can be a thankless job. In the Army most are young Sgt's home between deployments and combat veterans. They go from doing their job to a frustrating experience of trying to meet quotas, trying to talk to young adults and their parents in a time of war. There is a lot of pressure.
Additionally, recruiters are and have to be looking out for themselves. They have a job to do and quota's to meet. If they can sign you then they are doing their job.

Call a recruiter uninformed or not as well trained as you would prefer but please refrain from calling them "morons". This is disresectful to our men and women in uniform.
Morons they are not. These are men and women who have most likely been risking their lives for their country. Now they are in a position of asking you to bless your child's decision to risk their lives for your country.

If you are called by a recruiter who seems 'clueless' then simply take a minute to explain about which branch of service of rotc or academy you have chosen. Give our men and women in uniform a break.
 
I agree, do not call them MORONS...they are military members, by insinuating that they are, you are degrading your branch. You are saying that the military would prefer an a**hole than a hole!

The problem for recuiters is they have goals, and are reviewed upon meeting them.

I also agree mainstream America doesn't know about our SAs. When Bullet went to Ft Leavenworth for CGSC as a sister service, I recall seeing spouses wearing USMA tee-shirts. As a AF spouse, I never connected USMA to WP...always thought of it as only WP...it took me a few seconds for the connection to transmit in my mind...USMA=United States Military Academy...oh...OKAY that is WP! We have family members that attended the USNA, so I always knew Annapolis as the SA for USNA. As for the AFA, if AF members jokingly call it the little engineering school in the Rockies, it should be no shock that Americans view the AFA as an engineering college that sends all graduates into the AFA...akin to Citadel and VMI. I bet the avg American believes the Citadel is equivalent to WP. That Embry Riddle is on the same level as the AFA. Notre Dame is equivalent to the Navy. CGA is a vocational college for the Navy.

SInce Bullet and I moved we no longer receive the calls, but we did receive weekly calls from an Army recruit up until we moved. We just politely stated DS is going AF and has no desire to change his mind. They were all professional and thanked him for serving.

IMHO the true problem is that due to budget reasons, the military does not train the recruiters enough. If the military recruiters were sent to a 3 day course they would be more proficient, and understand the finesse of how to recruit. This is not occurring which actually causes the costs to raise and creates a poor image. My only analogy is the plastic bags that we get at stores...the stores keep buying cheaper and cheaper products, meanwhile, people like me realize the poor quality and demand that they are double bagged...thus wasting time and money when bagging. Not educating the recruiters properly hurts everybody...poor morale in the military...poor image in the mainstream.

I am going to take a leap in assumption, but I view being a recruiter for a military member is equivalent to being an ALO/MALO(not the SA) for the officer. They take the assignment for the follow on and are just doing time!
 
I'm not sure if it's the same today. But when I was in, I had a number of buddies who got assigned to Recruiter duty.

It was not an actual MOS, but rather a duty for a period of time, usually as a reward for excelling.

I had one buddy who was a DI, and was rewarded with 18 months of recruiter duty. I had two other buddies, moved from Recon to Recruiting for about the same, I think it was around 18 months.

JB
 
It is rare, if ever, that a Pvt or Airman is going to be a recruiter. They might be a recruiter's assistance on special duty, but they aren't a recruiter. You've got to have a wee bit more time in the service to be a recruiter, DI, etc...

These people have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing what a military academy is. At least, that it's an Accredited University that trains people to become officers. ANY army personnel that doesn't know that "West Point" is the same as the U.S. Military Academy; probably shouldn't be a recruiter or in any position to interact with the public. Same with a Navy person not knowing that Annapolis is the U.S. Naval Academy.

Now; while calling such a person who didn't know a moron is probably too harsh; I'll concede that. But then, I have to say that any military recruiter who "acts" the way they did to me/my son and many others who have mentioned similar encounters; is either A) Lying out their teeth with the goal of misleading the person and trying to satisfy his own self serving goals that he is expected to meet; B) Is extremely ignorant about the military that he serves; and shouldn't be in that position or job; or C) Under control of a group, division, wing, or whatever who is doing a lousy job at TRAINING these recruiters. These recruiters didn't just raise their hand one day and decide to go down town and become a recruiter. They are screened and trained to be a recruiter.
 
In the Army West Point is called West Point. It is not called the United States Military Academy in general conversation.
I can't think of any special reason why an Army Sgt. would necessarily know anything about the Air Force Academy.

An Army recruiter is going to be an NCO. Honestly, after a couple of tours in combat moving up to an E-5 or E-6 can happen pretty quickly - only 6 or 7 years. Some of these guys are in their mid to late 20's.
Typically, after a couple of tours of combat - they are weary, the family is weary. The offer is made - he gets a year or two in or near his hometown recruiting - then reality sets in.

From this article:
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/ap_recruitersuicides_092708/

Recruiting is considered a tough job in the military. Recruiters face pressure to sign at least two “prospects” a month, which is more difficult during war. If they don’t “make mission,” recruiters can be punished with longer duty hours and threatened with losing rank or receiving bad evaluations, veterans advocates said.
“The situation you’re placed in, the expectations you are given, are lose-lose,” said Staff Sgt. Jonathan L. Heinrich, a recruiter with the battalion’s Tyler Company. “You can talk to as many people as you want to, but if people don’t want to join the Army, there’s nothing you can do.”
Many recruiters from the Houston battalion said they regularly work 12- to 14-hour days, six or seven days a week, and have long commutes to small stations far from a military base.

We all should walk a mile in another guys shoes before trash talking.
The bottom line is this - high school kids are going to get called. Bright kids are in high demand and there will be an interest in you.
It is fruitless to comment on specific conversations but every conversation has two sides. Like any organization - there are good ones and there are bad ones and there are stressed out ones.
IMO - show the recruiters who call some respect, regardless of how idiotic they sound or you think they are.
 
JAM, you too like in the bubble. They SHOULD have the training to know what these institutions are. I worked an event yesterday with many regional directors of CG recruiting, and frankly, our recruiters know this stuff. They're not morons. They really should understand what options are out there. If they don't, they haven't been properly trained. I hope your soldiers are getting the training that recruiting warrants.
 
I have to agree with LITS...

IF these guys are calling they must know everything that the services offer so they have something to backup and explain why they have something better..

After all the military recruiters are meeting their goals right now.
 
I believe that Just A Mom has summed this up about as well as anyone could possibly do. It is pretty important to put a few things in perspective- chief among them- they are trying to recruit soldiers into an Army at War. Next year at this time their recruits are going to have a very strong chance of spending the next year in a war zone instead of the comfort of a free college dorm in Colorado or New York or Connecticut or Maryland (and whether you like it or not that's what the academy is). These Soldiers deserve to be treated with a lot of respect because they are trying to do a hard job and they do it pretty well -perhaps not perfectly but pretty well. The whole idea that these troopers- who daily knock themselves against a brick wall of pampered middle class moms and dads and suburban high schools all of whom are convinced that their kids are too valuable to be soldiers- would have to endure that same condescending treatment from the parents of kids on this site is sad.
So what if an Army recruiter doesn't know what the Air Force Academy is? Should they? Probably but in the scheme of things that they have to worry about - it's pretty low. How many kids is he going to run into where that will present him with a problem? Your kid took the ASVAB- he is on the list to be contacted by a recruiter. It seems to me that if the kid is bright enough to go to the academy then they ought to be articulate enough to explain that they are already contracted to the airforce in a paid college commissioning program and surely their parents must be capable of doing the same.
 
I would expect ANY recruiter in ANY branch of the military to understand the concept of an "ACADEMY". And if an Army member doesn't know that "West Point" is the ARMY's Academy, then they....... "Have Issues". I could understand not knowing the NAME of the other service's "ACADEMIES", but to not know the other branches HAVE AN ACADEMY, is inexcusable. If nothing else, to know that if the ARMY has a "College to make officers"; then the Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, Merchant Marines ALSO have a "College to make Officers". And instead of the word COLLEGE, they should be able to understand the word "ACADEMY".

I understand that for almost 2 decades, the Air Force was the only one that had an Accredited School for enlisted personnel. (They still might be the only branch of service with a college accredited school); That just about every Air Force enlisted Airmen graduating from basic and technical schools received College Credit. The Community College of the Air Force even granted Associate In Applied Science degrees; and is an accredited college. I can understand the army recruiter not knowing this. But if they don't know that each branch of the service has an academy (College); then they need a "New Job".
 
I believe that Just A Mom has summed this up about as well as anyone could possibly do. It is pretty important to put a few things in perspective- chief among them- they are trying to recruit soldiers into an Army at War. Next year at this time their recruits are going to have a very strong chance of spending the next year in a war zone instead of the comfort of a free college dorm in Colorado or New York or Connecticut or Maryland (and whether you like it or not that's what the academy is). These Soldiers deserve to be treated with a lot of respect because they are trying to do a hard job and they do it pretty well -perhaps not perfectly but pretty well. The whole idea that these troopers- who daily knock themselves against a brick wall of pampered middle class moms and dads and suburban high schools all of whom are convinced that their kids are too valuable to be soldiers- would have to endure that same condescending treatment from the parents of kids on this site is sad.
So what if an Army recruiter doesn't know what the Air Force Academy is? Should they? Probably but in the scheme of things that they have to worry about - it's pretty low. How many kids is he going to run into where that will present him with a problem? Your kid took the ASVAB- he is on the list to be contacted by a recruiter. It seems to me that if the kid is bright enough to go to the academy then they ought to be articulate enough to explain that they are already contracted to the airforce in a paid college commissioning program and surely their parents must be capable of doing the same.

sorry JAM & BRUNO, I have to disagree.
What kind of poppy-kock is this?
I keep hearing how we need to "play nice" to the poor recruiter because of all he has possibly done or not done and what he may or may not have been through. BULL! What should be of paramount concern is the poor 17 or 18 year old kifd that is trusting the recruiter to be honest AND know what he is talking about in searching out answers regarding the options before making what may agruably be the biggest decision of the kids life. There is NO excuse for not knowing at least the basics as has been mentioned in this thread. Time to get off the pitty party for the recruiters and hold them accountable for their actions
 
Want to put money down on the things that the AF recruiter doesn't know or doesn't mention about the Army? Does an AF recruiter know or mention what an 11B enlistment bonus is to a kid he's trying to recruit? Does a Coast Guard or Navy recruiter with a hot prospect suggest that his rescue diver prospect might also consider going Army SF since they have Divers and a $40,000 enlistment bonus for special ops soldiers? Shouldn't they know that in the interest of an informed client? Not even. The recruiters job in any service is to bring a kid into his branch under his quota- even Private Benjamin learned that they are not really guidance counsellors in greenor blue. As far as what they know and what they tell parents and prospects? The soldiers on temporary assignment tell them pretty much what is on the script for a cold call and then based on those conversations refer them for further contacts by the SSG and SFCs who make up the bulk of the recruiting force. Given that they are still making mission they seem to be pretty successful at sizing up their prospects and then signing them up.
 
You're missing the point. No one is suggesting that a recruiter recruit for other branches or tell them about all of their opportunities in the entire military. No, once these recruiters are told that the person has plans, then it is not in anyone's best interest for those recruiters to talk them out of it. After they are told "No I'm heading to USNA, West Point, AFA, etc..." that should be enough.
 
sorry JAM & BRUNO, I have to disagree.
What kind of poppy-kock is this?
I keep hearing how we need to "play nice" to the poor recruiter because of all he has possibly done or not done and what he may or may not have been through. BULL! What should be of paramount concern is the poor 17 or 18 year old kifd that is trusting the recruiter to be honest AND know what he is talking about in searching out answers regarding the options before making what may agruably be the biggest decision of the kids life. There is NO excuse for not knowing at least the basics as has been mentioned in this thread. Time to get off the pitty party for the recruiters and hold them accountable for their actions

This pretty much summed up what I was thinking. They are LYING to your sons and daughters about what is good for them. How would you feel if your daughter/son decided to follow the recruiter's advice because he told her/him that they can still do all the things they can do (like they told me- good chances of flying planes and JETS in the ARMY) if they enlist? How would you feel if your daughter/son turned down their appointment and gave the guy over the phone their name and number so that they could follow up on the recruit? To tell you the truth- I would feel pretty sh--ty. You can call your s/d moron or whatever for believing it, but ultimately who's fault is it?

I still agree with CC that they should get more training on trying to find out what the academies are...Especially when your conversations sounds like this: "I'm pursuing the Air Force Academy instead...It is an academy for the Air Force...IT's like West Point, but for the Air Force...No, I don't care if they pay my "full" tuition for college since the Air Force Academy is a college"....etc ad nauseam.

I'm starting to think that they really do not care about you what your reasons are for not enlisting as long as they finally get you to sign up and receive their commission...
 
ANY recruiter, regardless of his branch, who doesn't know that ANY Service Academy is a college (and a highly regarded, highly competitive, and highly selective one at that) has no business being a recruiter.

No need to sugar coat it.

There is NO excuse for such incompetence.

I don't even want to address the half-truths or outright lies that sometimes make their way into their pitch. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and blame incompetence instead of a lack of integrity.
 
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