Reinstating the draft?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by BeatNavy, Dec 9, 2009.

  1. BeatNavy

    BeatNavy USMA Cadet

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    It has crossed my mind a couple of times, and honestly I think we would be a better society for it, but I worry if it would negatively effect the military, due to people who don't want to be in. Any opinions, thoughts, considerations?
     
  2. USMAalltheway

    USMAalltheway Member

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    YAh I agree it would better in some ways. It would make a lot of our teens healthy, and it would give them a patriotic feeling of fighting to their country. Then however, there's those people who are too much of cowards too even fight for their country. I still think that if a war was big enough, the draft should come up again.

    USMAalltheway
     
  3. goaliedad

    goaliedad Parent

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    Not going to happen.

    Recruiting is meeting all goals (especially with the economy in the dumps). Not a thing to get a MOC re-elected.

    I agree that some sort of required national service (trust me there are many kids who I wouldn't want holding an m16 and would rather have in the peace corps) would be beneficial as young people these days really need an adult grow up experience to transition into the world effectively.
     
  4. BeatNavy

    BeatNavy USMA Cadet

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    Yeah, I definatley agree. I think that we have lost a lot of the maturation that typically occurred in the late teens, early twenties. Nowadays, college seems like a descent into more immaturity, and I think most kids at age 22 are way, way less mature and responsible than in generations past, and I think military service, or at least national service, could help solve a lot of this and teach a lot of valuable lessons. It could just be a two year thing, and then everyone goes to college as we do now. Also, since the draft went away, I think there is a huge disconnect between the military and the rest of society. Most people have no knowledge or insight into how the armed services operate, and in a country where the military is controlled by civilians, this is not a great thing. But I also agree it won't happen. Here is an interesting poll: http://www.gallup.com/poll/9727/public-support-military-draft-low.aspx
     
  5. nick4060

    nick4060 Member

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    One thing is for sure. With a draft, the service's wouldn't have to spend so much money on recruiting ads, bonuses, educational incentives, etc. That's alot of money freed up for things like research and acquisitions.

    Still, I think it would hinder the military's effectiveness in the long run. I can only see it happening if the military was stretched so thin that it became necessary just to have more bodies in uniform.
     
  6. America's Finest

    America's Finest USMA Cadet

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    I disagree. While it "may" help in someone's perfect picture of society, I believe in the freedom protected by our Constitution. Drafts are only enacted when our nation is in danger. It is not something to be done to keep self control and teach immature kids a lesson. If we were to think that way, we might as well become a dictatorship where the head of state directs all our social behavior and tells us what we can and can't say and do seeing as some people want to force others to join a specific career when it is not necessary. We can't force our beliefs of maturity or morals onto others. They have the right to be a <insert derogatory word here> if they wish so long as they do not break the law or infringe on other's rights.

    By joining the military, I will be protecting people's rights to not fight and find their own path in life. I will fight so others don't have to.
     
  7. caroline

    caroline Member

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    I'm sure most of you are aware that the "radical left":eek: think reinstating the draft is the only way that college students and others will go out in large numbers to protest and in effect end the war in Afghanistan. They're also for a draft with no deferments for college or other special circumstances. None. It's all over those evil blogs, though I haven't heard it mentioned on Hannity or Beck.:rolleyes:
     
  8. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    IMHO (and the official stance of the Libertarian Party) the draft or any other form of compulsory national service is prohibited by the 13th Amendment as involuntary servitude.
     
  9. SteveHolt243

    SteveHolt243 Member

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    The Supreme Court strongly disagrees.
     
  10. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    As they often do, even when they are wrong.

    A belief that the SCOTUS is infallible is dangerous.

    See also, Plessey v Ferguson, Dred Scott v Sandford, et al.

    :cool:
     
  11. Maximus

    Maximus Member

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    Oh I'm aware, Tax Cheat Charlie Rangel (D-NY) has been talking about this very issue since 2002. He believes that it will even out the Military in a number of ways, he feels it's only poor minorities fighting Americas wars and it's time for rich non minorities to support this country.

    http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/07/rangel.draft/

    This, of course, has been disproved many times and clearly shows what a moron he and his ilk are is:

    http://www.heritage.org/research/nationalsecurity/cda05-08.cfm
     
  12. SteveHolt243

    SteveHolt243 Member

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    I don't hold an infallible belief in the Supreme Court, and had to fire that off while I headed out quickly. Without getting real in depth off this side track, I do agree with the Supreme Court in this case; the 13th amendment pretty clearly was never meant to apply to compulsory military service, but purely to slavery and servitude designed to act as slavery as understood by Americans at the time. Not to mention it was passed at a time when we had a draft. The Supreme Court has dealt with the draft far more thoroughly than that, but I think the 13th amendment argument is not very strong, especially if we discuss a wartime draft (I think there is a bit more of a leg to standon with a peacetime draft, especially since the degree to which the Supreme Court has ruled on this is pretty questionable).
     
  13. sprog

    sprog Member

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    Most constitutionality questions surrounding the actions of the military are not reviewed by SCOTUS. It's a standing issue more than anything. They call it a "political question" and don't address it. I, personally, feel that some of the provisions of the UCMJ are unconstitutional with regards to the rights of the accused; but, that's another matter and I need not get into it. The draft, though, has been upheld by the Court as constitutional since WWI.

    My problem with the draft really goes back to how it operated in the Vietnam era. There were so many ways to get a deferment, it really seemed to disproportionaltely affect guys who were from a lower place on the socio-economic scale. The guys who couldn't go to college ended up drafted, while the more affluent kids could get deferred. So it was an unfair system, generally. WWII was a bit different, as it involved a total immersion of the nation in war, and military service did not cut through class lines at all. Someone mentioned that the draft would bring better awareness of the military. Unfortunately, if Vietnam is an example, I think it would only bring resentment. The all-volunteer force is the best way to go.

    This opinion is not meant to diminish the service of those who were drafted. Many conscripted servicemen have been highly decorated, and all veterans are worthy of my respect, whether entering the military was a voluntary choice or not.
     
  14. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    ^^^^:thumb:
    As a Vietnam Vet I couldn't agree more. Without getting too political just take a look at the military service of the last two Presidents that were old / young enough to serve during the last draft. The draft is an unfair system and those with affluent families will find way to dodge serving and still get elected to office.
     
  15. AF6872

    AF6872 Member

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    Luigi59:beer1: Got to go with Goaliedad on this one. Been there done that. I remember the draft and how it effected the military. I don't want some moron on full rock and roll with a M16 or M60 going nuts in a combat situation or screwing up the rear because they didn't want to be there and couldn't care less. It would also be nice if they could read the face of the M18A1 Claymore where it says "THIS SIDE TOWARD ENEMY". Service is a good idea but military draft I don't think so. Also Viet Vet. By the way you didn't have to be affluent to get a deferment. Colleges accepted almost everyone in those days and that was an automatic student deferrment. If I remember correctly you got into CCNY if you graduated from a NY High School. And they gave no grades because you had to maintain a 3.0 to maintain your deferred status. Ergo Colleges started giving "Pas/Fail".
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2009
  16. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    Did the colleges offer free admission or was the financial aid so generous and college costs so low that almost anyone could attend? I honestly don't remember. I do recall that the costs was too high for me and that the GI Bill was one of the reasons I joined.
     
  17. AF6872

    AF6872 Member

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    It was almost free for State Colleges. No financial aid but we got Veteran's Tuition. I think $100 a semester if you lived off campus. Had to pay for your books and housing. I actually made money on the GI Bill. Used it half way through my MBA. What a deal. I rember Macnamara's 100,000 while I was in. A lot of pavement maintenace specialists.
     
  18. sprog

    sprog Member

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    My Dad would probably roll over in his grave for sharing this, but, he didn't get accepted to his in-state college (University of Rhode Island) because he failed French three times. He had to attend a private college in Ohio that was affiliated with his church. It was a big deal because it cost $1,000 a year (tuition and room and board I believe). My, how times change. After all of that, the poor guy still got drafted because he was pre-lottery (graduated in 1967) and the draft board in his small town in RI didn't have too many eligible men to put on active duty. So 23 years old, with a college degree, he still got inducted. He was, I think, the exception rather than the rule though. He was never the luckiest guy in the world, so it was fitting. The degree did save him from having to be sent to Vietnam, though...he was trained as a computer programmer (back when one computer was three trailers long) and that helped him out when he separated. A silver cloud to every lining.
     
  19. sprog

    sprog Member

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    "the silver cloud to every lining" bit is an intentional attempt at humorous wordplay (that is, i recognize it is "a silver lining to every cloud.") I meant to add that my intent with the previous message wasn't to cast any bad vibes on the guys who did get sent to Vietnam because of the draft. Rather, to strengthen my earlier point about its unfairness. Seems to me, even in the Army, there was a stratification during those times. My dad had one deferment to finish college, and that allowed him a cushier job on active duty.
     
  20. caroline

    caroline Member

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    I completely agree that Rangel is a moron; however, all of his "ilk" .... not all of them.:rolleyes:
     

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