RIP Joe Pa

bruno said:
Folks- I will reiterate what I posted earlier (which was promptly ignored) and suggest that you let this thread go to bed. When you are talking about each other's choices the thread shows every likelihood of getting out of control rapidly.
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Motion seconded.
 
Third.

Seriously?

Are we at this point now? We can't even wish peace to his family? A family lost a husband, a father, a grandfather.
 
If not, what else could he have done?
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Gone to the County Police, the State police, ANY police until it was clear that someone would not brush it off -- cover it up, protect the university, protect the football program, etc --

He didn't want to "interfere with their weekend"?

Are you kidding me? That was his excuse?

Fail. Ultimate fail.

Ask the victims how their weekend plans went. :rolleyes:
 
Though Sprog can add more to question, going to the press about an alleged crime is neither slanderous nor libelous per se. Both require that you make statements which you know to be false.

Tpg, I know you were an officer long enough to know that when unsavory things get handled "boss to boss" it's because they want to keep things out of the common channels. It seems to me that the general procedure for reporting a suspected crime is not to chat with the police commissioner about it...unless you want to discuss its sensitive handling.

I think Bruno is probably right. With as many good questions as you've asked, we probably need to let this die.
 
Gone to the County Police, the State police, ANY police until it was clear that someone would not brush it off -- cover it up, protect the university, protect the football program, etc --
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Not the "county police". State police, maybe. They probably would have referred it back to PSU police. Remember they did not have a victim.
I am not sure that any media outlet would have printed Paterno's claim without it being verified. The Patriot News got flack for just printing that Sandusky was being investigated.

What he should have done was take Mc Q with him and go to the Centre County Office of Children and Youth Services and filed a complaint.
He should not have trusted that Curley and Shultz would do so - even though they did tell Paterno that they would comply with the law.

Filing a complaint would have opened an investigation and this would have flagged his Child abuse clearance. Thus he would not have been allowed to volunteer as a football coach in a high school. Even if he had not been charged or had a trial.
 
tpg said:
Scout-
You are correct. We should probably drop this subject.

But allow me one last thought. First I probably should have waited until this morning to write my comments. Last night I had just returned from a social event with the incoming dean and I was tired.

Second, I am beyond Paterno being fired and as an educator, I am focusing on using this issue as a teaching tool.

I teach an org theory class and this case is a wonderful event to teach. Because it is so fresh in people’s minds, and people have such strong emotions surrounding it, I have found that it is a great tool to teach my students how to ask tough questions and apply the answers to the many theories we are studying. It has been complicated at times, but It has been very engaging.

More importantly, I am finding that this event is teaching students how to create a matrix that can effect change in an organization. It has been so effective that these students have actually suggested policy changes here at the college and some in their actual places of employment.
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I have been in favor of closing this thread, but given the nature of your inquiry (educational learning from organizational failure) I think I can step back from the specifics of the failings and the individuals involved to address how you might look at this as an academic lesson. When you talk about the matrix, please explain what you are looking for.
 
tpg said:
Goaliedad – I am more than a bit overloaded at the moment. Currently I have six grading spreadsheets open on my computer so that I can input grades when I need a break from my actual work tonight , I am working on a project for our accreditation and I am coordinating my divisions fall class schedule which seems to be changing every other hour. So if this explanation seems to be confusing, just keep the above in mind…

This is a foundation course for both an MBA and MPA. These students are all first year Grad students. They range in age from 23 -48. This course is an overview of Org Theory. To best describe what I am doing is to focus on next week’s assignment, Organizational Learning.

Organizations that want to still be relevant and thrive, learning better and faster is critically important. Most apply quick fixes based upon technology that in the end, turn out to be a futile attempt to create organization change. But in order to keep the learning sustainable they really need to understand what is driving it.

Edit: yes, this class is a work in progress in a way.....I am just trying to take something relavent and use it in the class room. While that has been a bit difficult, I have found this topic to have their attention in ways that many others do not.

Since I have 20 students, I have divided them into five groups of four. I have assigned them one BROAD question that I want them to focus on answering in our learning matrix. The Matrix is nothing more than a table that has the question topics on the left and which group they should ask the questions of at the top.

Basically, across the top of the table, are the following groups:
Board of Trustees; the College President; the Campus Police; the Athletic Director; the Football Coach

Going down on the left hand side, I have the following Question topics that I want them to form questions for each group at the top. They include:
Self-Actualization; Self Development; Social Acceptation; Shared Vision; Transformational Leadership

Hope that helps you understand the matrix that we are using in this foundation class.
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I'm not sure if the PSU situation and the characters you have selected present the best platform to demonstrate the implementation of transactional vs. transformational leadership, although crisis management (where this is an excellent discussion topic) does reveal where the significant differences in management maturity existed.

In some of your columns you focus on the individuals who your students might analyze as to their leadership characteristics. I would argue that the characteristics to be discussed exist within a relationship that might exist in a department or organization. The board of trustees behaviors can be analyzed in how they are led (assuming a chairman who has a legal role other than as titular head) and what characteristics they exhibit. The athletic department (as opposed to the athletic director) could be analyzed in the same way. The Police Department (including the leader who was involved in the reporting of the alleged crime) might not be a good discussion here as it appears that the person involved pretty much insulated his subordinates from the situation. The football team (and extended player community) may be a good place to examine the traits that you want to discuss. Finally, the school administration (President on down) is also another place to identify the behaviors that differentiate the management traits.

Perhaps I am a bit picky about how you identify the participants, but most of the participants you identified participate as both a leader and a subordinate in the various relationships. Focusing on the relationhip instead of the leader, may keep your discussion more focused. My $.02.

Personally, my thoughts on educating leaders on implementing transformational leadership is more about understanding where the subordinates are focused in terms of Maslow and getting them moved up the pyramid. For example at my institution, we have lower level employees (including police officers) who qualify for food stamps, some job tasks (like custodial work) which have been back and forth between in-sourced and out-sourced. If you are the manager of houskeeping for student housing, do you spend your time talking to your employees about the vision of attracting top students by providing the facilities they want to stay in while the administration is talking about out-sourcing your employees jobs again?

While it is nice to talk about how wonderful transformational leadership is, when you take it to its logical extremes, it is ultimately limited (getting lost in the weeds as you go further out the extended org chart). As a tactical way of getting a defined subset of employees to work together more effectively establishing a cohesive bond where everyone is lifted up higher on the pyramid is a very effective way to effect organization change. The success is very much determined by the leaders ability to control his/her boundaries. The department director can lead to his/her boundary, the university president to his, the governer to his, the president to his. If the university's success is at the cost of the department or the state, with competing interests, do I focus on the president's vision? Point here is that agreement from top to bottom on a vision is almost impossible for most organizations as at any level the leader must also be a follower. And of course the various involved parties are at differnt levels of personal achievement.

Of course, if everyone is on board of looking upward in a purely hierarchical relationship for their vision, we can have very effective transformative leadership. And as long as the top leader's vision is moral (remember, the structure is amoral) a strong hierarchical leadership focus can be a good thing. Unfortunately, when we select out top leaders, often we miss some fatal character flaws that lead organizations off a cliff.

I'm probably babbling on now looking at the time. I'm sure this has gotton way off the subject as well. I'm glad to see you use this story as a departure point for teaching managment theory. Maybe I'm a cynic, but not everyone who enters an MBA program (or even a ROTC program) can become an effective leader because they lack the ability to develop enough social skills (reading and understanding others) to really communicate effectively with others. I have just finished a period of time working for what many of my workers have called a sociopath as a CIO. Works fine with others who have his world outlook. Kills the jobs of those who can't figure out that they have to play along or are just doing something that isn't viewed as critical to his vision.

Best of luck. Someday I'd love to have a couple drinks :beer1: and talk shop.
 
tpg - good to see you are willing to tackle this mess. I predict this entire tragedy/scandal/spectacle will be studied in B schools, law schools and ethic classes for decades.

Here is another tidbit for you:
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/02/penn_state_legal_counsel_cynth.html

In a nutshell, there is *confusion* as to whether Curley and Schultz had or thought they were represented by legal counsel during their testimony.
Frightening.
 
I would have thought that Cynthia Baldwin was indeed PSU counsel and not theirs because if they did perjure their selves on the stand that would be on them, not PSU.

She was there to protect PSU, not them.

I do agree this will be in colleges everywhere and will range from ethics to legal constraints. I could also see this in human resource classes since these employees are legally contracted which plays them close to being in a union, and for unions there are only 7 causes to fire a person.
 
Cynthia Baldwin, yes was Penn State's counsel. That being said any statements made by both Curley and Schultz under the employment of Penn State are represented by counsel for Penn State. Curley is on adminstrative leave from the university and is getting paid and getting benefits, as well. He was not fired, as some think or some say he was fired. Schultz retired out, when all this came to a head. Also, this may become a moot point, since Coach Paterno is now dead, because there are some in the legal community saying now. There is no witness, to what was said to Curley and Schultz. So, the charges could be dropped. I don't believe this is true because of the Grand Jury testimony. Then, there is Mike McQuery, the whistle blower has he is now classified by Penn State, who is also getting paid with full benefits, too. Once, this is all said for him, he will be history.

RGK
 
rkrosnar said:
Cynthia Baldwin, yes was Penn State's counsel. That being said any statements made by both Curley and Schultz under the employment of Penn State are represented by counsel for Penn State. Curley is on adminstrative leave from the university and is getting paid and getting benefits, as well. He was not fired, as some think or some say he was fired. Schultz retired out, when all this came to a head. Also, this may become a moot point, since Coach Paterno is now dead, because there are some in the legal community saying now. There is no witness, to what was said to Curley and Schultz. So, the charges could be dropped. I don't believe this is true because of the Grand Jury testimony. Then, there is Mike McQuery, the whistle blower has he is now classified by Penn State, who is also getting paid with full benefits, too. Once, this is all said for him, he will be history.

RGK
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BTW, the prosecution cannot use grand jury testimony in its case -- defense counsel are not allowed in there and there is no right of cross-examination. It can use that testimony to impeach a witness who did testify....
 
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