ROTC and MOS

AG -- I get your drift but let's be careful not to confuse position on the OML with being "a mediocre cadet". I'm sure you did not mean it that way, but a grade or position does not a person make. Some are naturally more athletic than others, some are naturally more academically inclined, and even though a person is lower on the OML does not mean they did not give 100% and do their best with the tools that God gave them. It just means they received mediocre scores in the specific measurements that compose the OMS. What it really means, stepping back and looking at it in perspective, is that the cadet is still prepared to be a better leader than 98% of the population... just not top 1%, if you follow me. which reminds me of the old joke: "What do you call a doctor who finished last in his/her class in Medical School?" you still call them "Doctor!"

Well relative to this discussion "mediocre" pertains to the OML. However in ROTC there are plenty of mediocre/sub-par cadets (either because they just don't have it or don't care) in general. It wasn't meant to be offensive, just a way to denote average or mediocre cadets and their OML branching/listing respectively.


Oh and if you intend to branch reserves then the OML is pretty much not a factor in your branching. It has to be with nearby units and if there is a 2LT slot available.
 
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Well relative to this discussion "mediocre" pertains to the OML. However in ROTC there are plenty of mediocre/sub-par cadets (either because they just don't have it or don't care) in general. It wasn't meant to be offensive, just a way to denote average or mediocre cadets and their OML branching/listing respectively.


Oh and if you intend to branch reserves then the OML is pretty much not a factor in your branching. It has to be with nearby units and if there is a 2LT slot available.

So since I'll be doing my initial time in the Reserves (then after IRR I assume?), I'll pretty much fill any slot needed then go for that schooling? I don't mind this as long as I'm still serving my country.
 
@Armyguard24, lots of times (atleast for Guard) you can select your unit, your job and your position so long as there is a slot available. I know of some MS4's that have chosen to go Guard and have the ability to choose just about any job they want (including Aviation).
 
@Armyguard24, lots of times (atleast for Guard) you can select your unit, your job and your position so long as there is a slot available. I know of some MS4's that have chosen to go Guard and have the ability to choose just about any job they want (including Aviation).

Guard aviation slots can be very hard to get. Also, be aware that you can't choose your airframe.
 
Scout, I thought you were USMA commissioned AD, just asking how do you know that about Guard compared to Bull who is in the system for AROTC?
 
Scout, I thought you were USMA commissioned AD, just asking how do you know that about Guard compared to Bull who is in the system for AROTC?

I have also heard that guard/reserve aviation as well as other branches such as MI and IN can still be hard to get. As for air-frame, one of my TACs at LDAC who was an Apache pilot said they did a mini OML at BOLC to determine what they would each be flying. Not 100% on this but he seemed to know the process well.

It all comes down to slots in your area and if the unit will accept you. Getting your preferred branch might require moving or some decent travel time. In my are MS and MI slots are hard to come.
 
Guard aviation slots can be very hard to get. Also, be aware that you can't choose your airframe.

I should of clarified this, sir. I also should add for Armyguard24 that right now, after talking to an MS4 who spoke with a Aviation Guardsman at LDAC that Guard Aviation BOLC dates are ~2 years out from commissioning.

PIMA, regardless of commissioning source, I think everyone has a general understanding for the Guard. I just know a very slim bit about the Guard because a good portion of my BN is SMP.
 
Scout, I thought you were USMA commissioned AD, just asking how do you know that about Guard compared to Bull who is in the system for AROTC?

Because he is an Aviation officer in the Army.

I think he might know just A BIT (i.e. he knows a lot) about the interplay of active duty, guard, and reserve aviation forces.
 
Scout, I thought you were USMA commissioned AD, just asking how do you know that about Guard compared to Bull who is in the system for AROTC?

Aglahad said:
I have also heard that guard/reserve aviation as well as other branches such as MI and IN can still be hard to get. As for air-frame, one of my TACs at LDAC who was an Apache pilot said they did a mini OML at BOLC to determine what they would each be flying. Not 100% on this but he seemed to know the process well.

I know this because RA, RC, and NG officers all go to the same flight school at Fort Rucker, AL. Incidentally, Air Force helicopter pilots train there too.

The difference between RA and NG officers when it comes to aircraft selection is simple. RA officers are assigned to Fort Rucker for training, and can be assigned to any flying unit thereafter. They can therefore be trained on any airframe and sent to a corresponding unit thereafter. Thus the Army conducts a simple OML "dream sheet" aircraft selection for the active duty personnel, who choose their airframe from the list of those available. The RC and NG officers do not take part in this.

NG officers join a unit first, and are then sent to flight school by that unit. As a result, they know which airframe they'll be flying, because their unit sends them to flight school to fill a vacant MTOE slot for a pilot. There can be a long delay in getting to flight school for NG officers. On the plus side, they tend to move through flight school with fewer delays since their state's guard money is paying for their active duty training. So while an active duty officer might go to flight school wanting to fly UH-60s, he can change his mind 15 times before choosing his airframe. NG officers don't have that luxury, as they're sent to learn one airframe so they can fill a vacant pilot slot for that airframe at the unit to which they already belong.

To answer your thinly veiled barb directly, Pima, I guess that somehow in almost 8 years of aviation service I've managed to learn more about my branch than the average college-age ROTC cadet. Beginner's luck, I suppose.
 
I know this because RA, RC, and NG officers all go to the same flight school at Fort Rucker, AL. Incidentally, Air Force helicopter pilots train there too.

The difference between RA and NG officers when it comes to aircraft selection is simple. RA officers are assigned to Fort Rucker for training, and can be assigned to any flying unit thereafter. They can therefore be trained on any airframe and sent to a corresponding unit thereafter. Thus the Army conducts a simple OML "dream sheet" aircraft selection for the active duty personnel, who choose their airframe from the list of those available. The RC and NG officers do not take part in this.

NG officers join a unit first, and are then sent to flight school by that unit. As a result, they know which airframe they'll be flying, because their unit sends them to flight school to fill a vacant MTOE slot for a pilot. There can be a long delay in getting to flight school for NG officers. On the plus side, they tend to move through flight school with fewer delays since their state's guard money is paying for their active duty training. So while an active duty officer might go to flight school wanting to fly UH-60s, he can change his mind 15 times before choosing his airframe. NG officers don't have that luxury, as they're sent to learn one airframe so they can fill a vacant pilot slot for that airframe at the unit to which they already belong.

To answer your thinly veiled barb directly, Pima, I guess that somehow in almost 8 years of aviation service I've managed to learn more about my branch than the average college-age ROTC cadet. Beginner's luck, I suppose.

That could have been straight out of the Aviation Recruitment Pamphlet.

At my son's school this year there are 2 cadets that have been accepted to NG Aviation, My son is hoping for AD Aviation. Both NG cadets have talked endlessly about the process and explained it exactly as you have. The joke they have with my son is that he would probably complete training and flight school before they even get to school, they said the wait was sometimes 2 years.

If things go well for my son I will have to get him to come on this board and pick your brain a bit.
 
I know this because RA, RC, and NG officers all go to the same flight school at Fort Rucker, AL. Incidentally, Air Force helicopter pilots train there too.

The difference between RA and NG officers when it comes to aircraft selection is simple. RA officers are assigned to Fort Rucker for training, and can be assigned to any flying unit thereafter. They can therefore be trained on any airframe and sent to a corresponding unit thereafter. Thus the Army conducts a simple OML "dream sheet" aircraft selection for the active duty personnel, who choose their airframe from the list of those available. The RC and NG officers do not take part in this.

NG officers join a unit first, and are then sent to flight school by that unit. As a result, they know which airframe they'll be flying, because their unit sends them to flight school to fill a vacant MTOE slot for a pilot. There can be a long delay in getting to flight school for NG officers. On the plus side, they tend to move through flight school with fewer delays since their state's guard money is paying for their active duty training. So while an active duty officer might go to flight school wanting to fly UH-60s, he can change his mind 15 times before choosing his airframe. NG officers don't have that luxury, as they're sent to learn one airframe so they can fill a vacant pilot slot for that airframe at the unit to which they already belong.

To answer your thinly veiled barb directly, Pima, I guess that somehow in almost 8 years of aviation service I've managed to learn more about my branch than the average college-age ROTC cadet. Beginner's luck, I suppose.

Interesting, I didn't know the process for airframe selection was that different between AD/NG/RC. However, couldn't you alleviate the guessing by just joining an all apache unit if it is nearby? Or are most NG aviation units pretty mixed when it comes to airframes?
 
That could have been straight out of the Aviation Recruitment Pamphlet.

At my son's school this year there are 2 cadets that have been accepted to NG Aviation, My son is hoping for AD Aviation. Both NG cadets have talked endlessly about the process and explained it exactly as you have. The joke they have with my son is that he would probably complete training and flight school before they even get to school, they said the wait was sometimes 2 years.

If things go well for my son I will have to get him to come on this board and pick your brain a bit.

I should caveat what I said with the countervailing viewpoint: sometimes being locked into an airframe is a luxury. If you're sure it's the one you want, you don't have to sweat not getting it. Make sense?

The other caveat to THAT point is that we always say that "no one knows what they want to fly...they just think they know what they want to fly."
 
Interesting, I didn't know the process for airframe selection was that different between AD/NG/RC. However, couldn't you alleviate the guessing by just joining an all apache unit if it is nearby? Or are most NG aviation units pretty mixed when it comes to airframes?

Very few are mixed. Those that are tend to be a mix of Hawks and Hookers, not a complete mix.

The issue is that units in a state are often only one type. For example, the Kansas Guard has no Apaches, etc. You'd need to go to a different state.
 
http://www.apd.army.mil/jw2/xmldemo/r611_110/main.asp

Army Regulation 611-110 (probably outdated) states:

The ARNG members will apply through channels to Chief, National Guard Bureau (NGR 611-110).

So does a current ROTC cadet who wants ARNG Aviation find a unit and apply through the unit or do they get accepted for aviation in general through the Chief, National Guard Bureau and then find a unit to fund their flight school?
 
Thanks for all of your responses and isnight. I know I keep asking questions but I feel this is the right place to ask them. I was not awarded a scholarship (currently in college). After I am commissioned, will I owe 3 or 4 years of Reserve/Active? And after the initial 3 or 4 years in most likely the Reserves, will I complete the remaing 4 or 5 years in the IRR? And if so, what is the IRR exactly? Such as deployments and activation. I've heard bits and pieces of it. Thanks for all of your help!
 
Thanks for all of your responses and isnight. I know I keep asking questions but I feel this is the right place to ask them. I was not awarded a scholarship (currently in college). After I am commissioned, will I owe 3 or 4 years of Reserve/Active? And after the initial 3 or 4 years in most likely the Reserves, will I complete the remaing 4 or 5 years in the IRR? And if so, what is the IRR exactly? Such as deployments and activation. I've heard bits and pieces of it. Thanks for all of your help!

Your total commitment is 8 years, that can be split AD and IRR. I believe it is correct that if you complete ROTC without a scholarship your AD if you choose to go that route is 3 years. You can also choose to go Reserves or National Guard, if you go that route you would do 8 years Reserves and no IRR. You will drill once a month and 2 weeks a year and are available for deployments if your unit is ordered to deploy, you will do this for 8 years if you commission into the reserves or National Guard. If you complete the 3 years of AD then you would complete your commitment with 5 years of IRR.

With IRR you would not have any pay or benefits or ID from the military. You would not be required to attend drill or perform any duties. Basically you are a civilian, grow your hair, a beard, get a job. IRR means the Army can call you back to service if there is a need. This happened to some IRR's after the start of the Iraq War. If nothing happens that requires you being called back you will almost forget about it until one day you realize that your time on IRR is done.
 
Your total commitment is 8 years, that can be split AD and IRR. I believe it is correct that if you complete ROTC without a scholarship your AD if you choose to go that route is 3 years. You can also choose to go Reserves or National Guard, if you go that route you would do 8 years Reserves and no IRR. You will drill once a month and 2 weeks a year and are available for deployments if your unit is ordered to deploy, you will do this for 8 years if you commission into the reserves or National Guard. If you complete the 3 years of AD then you would complete your commitment with 5 years of IRR.

With IRR you would not have any pay or benefits or ID from the military. You would not be required to attend drill or perform any duties. Basically you are a civilian, grow your hair, a beard, get a job. IRR means the Army can call you back to service if there is a need. This happened to some IRR's after the start of the Iraq War. If nothing happens that requires you being called back you will almost forget about it until one day you realize that your time on IRR is done.

Thanks for this explanation! This definitly makes the choice (if it becomes possible) between Active and Reserves difficult. I know with Reserves you can establish a civilian career, but besdies that is there any real advantage to this? I know Active you will be relocatded, receive better pay, and promote quicker. Sorry for these questions. The answers I'm getting here are better than anywhere else.
 
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