ROTC Changes on the Way

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Jcc123, Sep 12, 2013.

  1. Jcc123

    Jcc123 Member

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    No mention of what exactly the changes are or when they will go into effect, but my guess is the additional 3 days tagged on to LDAC will begin next summer, since it was mentioned in conjunction with the move to Ft. Knox.

    http://www.forthoodsentinel.com/story.php?id=12040
     
  2. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

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    Hopefully it just isn't just more check the box type of training...
     
  3. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Interesting read.

    Just curious if the DOD budget does get cut again this yr as it has been projected, how will they fund the additional 3 days if the ROTC budget does not increase at best, or decreases at worst?

    3 days doesn't seem like a lot, but I would assume (we all know what that means) it would equate into more costs since it is thousands of cadets going every yr., even nominal means money has to be shifted from somewhere in the Army ROTC budget. I.E. more trainers = more cost, more time there = more per diem per cadet on TDY, MRE's are cheap, but they still cost money,

    I also giggled a little at the getting away from Power Point....look at the upper echelon, that is how they live! I am not sure that can ever happen.

    The cynic in me is thinking the same thing as Aglahad, hopefully this isn't just checking a box issue.
     
  4. Jcc123

    Jcc123 Member

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    I like that it appears to recognize the need for some practical "how to 2LT" skills like running a range, and perhaps even some hand-receipt / inventory type training and even Army organizational information that would be useful.

    DS is an MSIII, so probably won't get much of the new training unfortunately, unless they roll this out pretty quickly.
     
  5. AscoreD

    AscoreD Member

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    When we had our in-brief with our new PMS, he mentioned of changes coming in the upcoming years such as a new program for all cadets called the Cadet Initial Entry Program which would take place between their 1 and 2 year for all cadets I believe. The other was to extend LDAC to be 7-8 weeks long in order to place more emphasis on the learning and development aspect.
     
  6. QA1517

    QA1517 Member

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    When at sons LTC graduation this summer, they mentioned that they were working towards making LTC for everyone. That may be the program between MSI and MSII that you mention.
     
  7. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I love learning, so I have to ask.

    What is LTC? Did QA mean LDAC? LTC in AF world = Lt. Col.

    Now, Devil's advocate questions.

    1. If I am correct the Army has to do a lot of personnel cutting in the next few yrs. The reason I have come to understand is due to the fact that they are returning back home at a higher rate than sister services.
    ~~~~ I.E. AF is down to @a 2.3% cut because they started cuts back in 10 for officers. They are now at attrition due to separation and retirement.
    ~~~~ They also cut AFA class sizes inn 10, cut AFROTC scholarships in 09 (?), cancelled OCS boards, and RIF/SERB in 10/11.

    2. Cadet Initial Program
    ~~~~ Is that the AFROTC equivalent of SFT (Summer Field Training). If not selected, the chances of staying in AFROTC is @1%. It is held the summer of their rising jr. yr.; or IOTW that 2nd yr.

    If I understand the AROTC proram correctly. there is no board selection like AFROTC SFT.

    Is this their way to now implement that selection process?
    ~~~ I.E. Can they cut using the Cadet Initial Entry Program? If so, than would be wrong to assume that the LDAC group would be smaller in size,hence the can extend it by 3 days without creating any budget issues?

    The fact is the DOD has a budget. Each branch has a budget. ROTC is part of that budget. I doubt they will take from AD before they take from ROTC.

    The question is since in the article it states 78% officers commission from a ROTC source, how can they cut ROTC? Yet, if they are over the numbers for personnel, how can they keep producing Army officers at the same rate they have in the past?

    Chicken or the Egg?
     
  8. QA1517

    QA1517 Member

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    LTC

    Leadership Training Course

    It is a course for those who did not take ROTC their freshman or sophomore year but want to join as a Junior (MSIII).

    Not a direct replacement for their MSI and MSII years but covers most of the stuff covered and then some.

    Having read what LDAC is, LTC is LDAC Light. They do a lot of the same things but in more of an instructional atmosphere.
     
  9. QA1517

    QA1517 Member

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    Again, as on another thread, I am going to play the skeptic. I don't believe you are going to see a huge cut back in ROTC since they just announced that this year was the first year they have reached their goal for officers.

    OTC is the first place the Army cuts officers, Then they reduce West Point to their target number of students (1100 to 1200) instead of running at 1400 like they did for a few years. (ball park numbers)

    I think you have and will see ROTC having higher entrance requirements and rewarding more STEM majors.

    We were told at LTC that scholarship recipients gpa would raise over the next couple of years.

    You will also see more ROTC going to reserves and National guard instead of active duty. From what we were told they have never met the needs of the guard for 2nd LTs.
     
  10. Aglahad

    Aglahad Member

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    All that stuff is what BOLC is for, LDAC is still primarily an evaluation course.

    7-8 weeks and do what? I don't see the value in holding over cadre and training for learning and development thats done en mass. I think a lot of people on here do not remember BOLC II which was in between ROTC and branch specific BOLC. It's purpose was to get everyone on the same level learning/leadership wise and it was deemed rather useless and tedious. I have seen the LTC curriculum and I don't think it would have benefited me at all by the time I was an MSII. I just see it as a huge money waster especially if cadets choose not to return prior to the start of the MSII year.
     
  11. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Like QA stated, LTC is for those that have missed the first two years of ROTC and will start the program as a MS3.

    LTC is like a combination of BCT and LDAC, a little more rigid then LDAC. LDAC has been more of an assesment course, now it seems to be shifting to both assesment and instruction combined.

    I highly doubt that the new Cadet Initial Program will be like SFT, meaning cadets will not have to meet a board to attend. Whether there will be a certain score they have to achieve during this program, well I'm sure that's still on the drawing board. There is no board selection like AFROTC's SFT.

    So far the army has not really slowed down on the number of commissions, this year will tell a lot once the numbers come out. Close to that same number of scholarships were given out this year, less 4yr but nowhere near the decrease people had anticipated.

    I can't speak for other battalions but so far there has not been a decrease in things like summer training slots or CULP selections at my son's battalion, in fact they had a few more slots last year. This year they had more scholarship cadets then in previous years. The battalion budget is lower, no cash reward for Superior cadet, no incentive dollars for recruiting, less money for battalion t-shirts, small things like that.
     
  12. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    I have to agree with Aglahad on this one. This CIEP taking place between the MS1 and MS2 year seems a little strange. There are a huge number of non scholarship, non contracted cadets that do not commit until the start of their junior year. To send every cadet to training before a majority have contracted seems like big risk, considering these cadets can still opt out of the program with no obligation.

    Sounds like they're not looking at an extention of LDAC to 7 or 8 weeks anymore since they just announced LDAC will be extended 3 days.
     
  13. QA1517

    QA1517 Member

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    Although I am still relatively new to all this, I would have to agree. In order to change things too drastically they would have to revamp the entire ROTC program from MSI up and that seems like a pretty drastic undertaking.

    Maybe they need to make sure that all ROTC battalions teach the same and the opportunities are presented to everyone. To me that seems like the biggest variable in the system, the in-consistency in what is taught. Some teach more land nav. etc.

    And by MSI and MSII classes being opening to anyone, maybe they will leave the classes open to anyone but require cadets to contract after their MSI year before they went to any schools.
     
  14. sheriff3

    sheriff3 Member

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    Just curious , any idea if this new Cadet Initial Entry Program will take place for the summer of 2014? If there is going to be some sort of obligation on the cadets part for the summer between MSI and MSII, ( which there was none before), they will need to notify them ASAP. I cannot imagine the Army being that nimble as to be able to pull this off by May/June 2014.
     
  15. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Not to be challenging, but desiring to make a few points:

    1. I suspect any differences in training currently are due to the differences in facilities available to the unit. Not all colleges are near a base where Land Nav training becomes radically easier to accomplish, etc. They could easily accomplish more standardized training simply by edicting it if, in fact, there are really any differences.

    2. I strongly doubt they'll contract kids after their MSI year. That would mean paying the stipend and that entails large dollars. I could see them making a summer training available between MSI and MSII, but only for already contracted cadets. That's how Navy handles it and it sounds much more reasonable to me.
     
  16. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Good Lord! I certainly hope our Army is nimble enough to accomplish that. They can certainly accomplish more difficult tasks in less time, provided they put the proper resources on it.
     
  17. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    I would tend to agree with you on this one.

    Following both my son's through ROTC for 5 plus years now, it's amazing how many changes there have been, some quick and some over time. It seems with every Change of Command there comes a whole new slate of changes.
     
  18. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    One would think.

    Of course you just have to look at how long they debated a revision to the APFT and then in the end left it as is.

    Don't even get me started on the time it has taken to come up with new ACU's

    They have been working on moving LDAC for a couple years before that finally happened.

    There are times it seems the Army Star is laminated on the back of a Tortoise.
     
  19. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Regardless of the organization - private, federal, or military - the new guy always has to make his or her mark on it, regardless of size. :rolleyes:
     
  20. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    Yep, the old "Change for the sake of Change" motto.
     

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