ROTC scholarship - Dual status US Citizen

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by justamum, Sep 16, 2014.

  1. justamum

    justamum Member

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    I have searched the ROTC forum and not found anything on this that is recent. My DS was offered and accepted a 4year Army ROTC and has just started college this fall.

    He is a US citizen by birth and a dual status citizen of a US allied country that was his fathers country of birth. He has both passports currently, and we lived abroad for one year when he was 11.

    When he applied for the ROTC scholarship he was told that he would have to renounce the other non US citizenship at commissioning, which he understood and agrees to do. Now he is being told he has to do it before contracting....which he is also willing to do...but I don't see anywhere how exactly that is to be done? Or if that is actually correct?

    I did read the Army regulation 145-1...and it seems to me that the only requirement is that he be a US citizen by birth. He is. Is the problem that that requirement only extends to participation in ROTC but to contract he must renounce?

    Help! Obviously the contracting part plays big in the finances in the coming months!!! It cant be that each Battalion or Company handles this as they see fit....so there must be more specific information somewhere?

    Thanks in advance for any direction or suggestions on where we/DS go for definitive information on how to move forward.
     
  2. Azmomm

    Azmomm Member

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    The problem is he will need to complete paperwork for his security clearance. He can't get the required clearance with Dual Citizenship
     
  3. justamum

    justamum Member

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    Yes we can see that he does have to get the renouncing done sooner rather than later....my questions are that the security clearance is way down the road....the contracting business is right now.

    Ripping up your passport does not undo your citizenship....so there must be a process that is recognized and accepted....but there doenst seem to be any readily available information on what the Army would like to see or is required.

    Thanks for the quick reply!
     
  4. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    I wish I could help you about the citizenship, have you tried the State Department or Immigration.

    As far as the security clearance, 4 year scholarship cadets complete the forms their freshman year, I have heard of some doing it very early.
     
  5. USMCGrunt

    USMCGrunt Member

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    Justamum: you advised your DS is a scholarship student in a ROTC unit. It seems that this is a great question for his PMS or whatever the Officer instructors are called in Army ROTC.

    You will get advice here but most will be anecdotal or opinion.
     
  6. AROTC Parent

    AROTC Parent Member

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    justamum,

    I recommend two actions simultaneously. 1) Cadet schedules an appointment with the PMS or HRA. 2) Contact the closest embassy or consulate for the country of citizenship you will renounce. Start gathering necessary documents immediately.

    Google - How to renounce citizenship of xxxx. Follow the path to the country's official website.
     
  7. justamum

    justamum Member

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    USMCgrunt....thanks...yes I know most is anecdotal...I was hoping someone might have been through this recently and be able to point to regulation....which there must be somewhere!

    AROTCparent....yes working it from the consulate end now....I am sure it is mostly a paperwork exercise...just wanted to know if there is required paperwork on the US side after the other country is satisfied.

    Thank you both for taking the time.
     
  8. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    I have contracted a bunch of dual citizens and never asked one to renounce.

    Here is what CC Pam 145-4 says about dual citizenship:

    a. Citizenship criteria apply to all contracted Cadets, both scholarship and Non-Scholarship. This is a statutory requirement. No waivers/exceptions are authorized. Cadets who hold dual citizenship must be advised that, when requested, they will be required to provide a statement to the OPM investigator, or the adjudicative authority, expressing their willingness to renounce dual citizenship. Failure to do so may result in denial of a security clearance, which is a prerequisite for commissioning, and will result in disenrollment.

    The way I read that is that you don't have to renounce, just agree that if you ever are asked to renounce that you will. I have met a few officers that are currently dual citizens. I'm never going to require that a Cadet renounce citizenship.
     
  9. BAMA ROTC

    BAMA ROTC Member

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    Clarkson is spot on!
     
  10. VB DAD

    VB DAD Member

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    The old passport question must be September. Clarkson speaks wise words. My I also add that at my sons collage, a D/C will keep their passports but the PMS will render the alien one useless (paper punch).

    Please ask your cadet to travel on a US passport only if he keeps both, for OPM is a question of Loyalty should the thumb screws come out.
     
  11. afrotc16

    afrotc16 Member

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    My friend in ROTC had to give up his dual citizenship before he contracted. This was AFROTC, but I think the Army works the same way.
     
  12. BAMA ROTC

    BAMA ROTC Member

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    As previously stated, there is no such requirement.
     
  13. BigBillNY

    BigBillNY Member

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    Dual Citizenship

    So folks, let me contribute my two cents here and hope to sort it out.

    First off, I am a supervisory immigration official for DHS and I have a background in immigration law.

    The US recognizes dual citizenship but does not encourage it.

    Furthermore, under the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), the US does not recognize dual citizenship; however, many people can claim dual citizenship. Confused? Let me explain.

    Let's say you are born in a foreign country and ultimately naturalize as a US citizen. As part of the Oath of Allegiance, you must renounce any allegiance to a foreign state. So, you have sworn to a US official you will only be loyal to the US. The US considers you to only be a citizen of the US. So, does this mean you lost the citizenship to your birth country? Well, it depends on where you are from. The UK, Canada, Ireland, Italy, and most EU nations do NOT take away your citizenship. So, technically, you are still a citizen of two countries. Other nations; such as, Germany, China, India, and Russia do take away your birth citizenship once they become aware you naturalized in the US.

    So, for people who still maintain "dual" citizenship, certain issues can arise. First, you must always enter and leave the US using your US passport only. Once you get to a foreign country, we don't care what passport you show.

    Another issue that can impact a dual national is the military. Many nations still have a draft. A dual national may be required to serve in the military of his birthplace. This is the main reason, I suspect, the US military requires you to renounce any dual citizenship. The military does not want to compete for loyalty.
     
  14. sheriff3

    sheriff3 Member

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    Clarkson and Bama, I sent you both a PM. Thanks.
     
  15. justamum

    justamum Member

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    Well in DS's case his citizenship in both countries was a birthright...not a choice. He meets the "test" of being a citizen of the USA by birth and parental citizenship and is willing to attest his loyatlies.

    I know that the process of renouncing and getting the paperwork requested is going to be time consuming...and we are already 30 days into the school year....tuition is due. Its upsetting, but I dont see anyway around it but trying to meet the CO's request...wrong though it is. My son doesnt want to rock the boat or go around the chain of command. At this point, until someone asks me to pull out a check book....I dont really have much to say....but if that day comes, I will call the CO.

    Still waiting to hear from the Embassy as to the process. Sigh.
     
  16. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    Didn't Senator Ted Cruz just renounce his Canadian citizenship?
    The unit should be able to tell your Cadet what they want to fulfill "the requirement". They probably haven't because there is nothing in the regulations. I would suggest an Army Memorandum that says your Cadet is willing to renounce his citizenship if required in accordance with CC Reg 145-1.
     

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