ROTC scholarship for Jr in Highschool + RSP split ship program = Guaranteed Officer?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by GuardGun, Jan 20, 2014.

  1. GuardGun

    GuardGun New Member

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    Ok I've got a question, my girlfriend is a JR in high school(I'm senior btw).

    She is in Army jrotc in school. Apparently she will join the Army RSP program, ship out to basic at 17, this summer after she finishes her JR year of HS, then finish her senior year, go to AIT summer of 2015, and then go to college for 4 years on the ROTC scholarship and commission as an officer. She is joining as National Guard and doing the monthly drill meets until then.

    She said her recruiter has a slot for Air Defense Artillery Officer. Supposedly thats the job she will get after she goes to Meps this week.

    My question is, is she actually guaranteed an officer after 4 years college, or even the 4 year scholarship? or is there a chance she will just be enlisted going to ROTC?

    Is she even guaranteed this scholarship yet or is the recruiter just trying to get her to sign papers and tell her what she wants to hear to recruit her quickly? I believe she would be likely to fall for that as she is very naive.

    I'm wondering how she can be guaranteed this 4 year scholarship with the average gpa, no colleges picked out or SAT/ACT scores...?
    She has not yet taken the SAT/ACT tests, made a 54 on the asvab and has a hs gpa of above 3.0(a/b and at least 1 c but shes taking honors classes) and almost 3 years of JROTC, this year she should have ROTC honors because she is in leadership. is this all even competitive for an Army scholarship lol?

    She is:
    Junior in High School
    5'4 female, 120 lbs

    HS GPA 3.0+

    Leadership in Army ROTC this year
    Participated in Air Force jrotc cadet leadership course 2013

    Classes
    honors: English, Algebra 2, Anatomy and Physiology, JROTC

    PFT
    8:30 mile
    30~ situps
    20+ push ups

    Joining Army National Guard on 4 year contract(8)
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2014
  2. Ohio2015Parent

    Ohio2015Parent Member

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    I would be skeptical of this recruiter's promises. He can guarantee her split option BCT/AIT but everything else, from my limited experiences as a parent of a AROTC cadet, is beyond his control.

    MEPS will only medically qualify her for the National Guard position she signs her contract for (mostly based on her ASVAB score and the needs of the guard at this time). In order to sign a ROTC contract(scholarship or no) she would need to go through a more rigorous medical check called DoDMERB.

    The scholarship is a Cadet Command/School decision - recruiters have no input. The same thing is true of a different type of AROTC contract to commission known as SMP(Simultaneous Membership Program). Cadet Command, the school and a NG/Reserve unit are all involved in that decision.
    My DS's recruiters knew of his desire to use the SMP program to contract and did set up his NG contract with this in mind, however, it did NOT guarantee him anything until his school had a contract to offer him(earliest these can be offered are sophomore year of college and typically after BCT and a year of ROTC participation in college). AIT maybe attended prior to contracting if the cadet wants to earn additional money towards college.

    As to promising her a particular officer position....that is way beyond his control. That decision is made after the junior year of college, based on multifactoral information from GPA, school input via the professor of military science(PMS) and the cadets performance at a training/evaluation course you hear referred to here as LDAC. Plus of course, the needs of the Army at the time of her commissioning(graduation from college).

    Have her do more research. Enlisting and serving as a member of the National Guard, assigned to an Air Defense unit, would not be a horrible thing to do, but it sounds like she is being promised a lot more than that. Many NG members do have access to money to help pay for school through various NG scholarships and GI Kicker money programs, so it can be a great way to serve in the military, get training and assistance with your college expenses.
     
  3. QA1517

    QA1517 Member

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    I'm assuming it's the same for all states, but if she is going into National Guard, then yes she can pick her branch as long as there is an opening. And at least in my state the recruiter is aware of these openings and fills them.
     
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Sure, but how does a recruiter know what officer slots will be in 5 YEARS?

    The girl is a junior in high school.

    I am with Ohio on this one.

    I would have her talk to the ROTC units for her college choices, or at the very least pm clarkson and have her talk to him privately.
     
  5. QA1517

    QA1517 Member

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    It sounds to me like she will be doing SMP while participating in ROTC, probably on a GRFD scholarship. If that is the case then she will be drilling with that unit as a cadet officer her freshman year.

    Not a full blown officer opening but a SMP cadet opening.
     
  6. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    Even then she has to get to the ROTC Advanced Course which is perhaps likely but certainly not guaranteed.
     
  7. Strength and Honor

    Strength and Honor Member

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    I stopped when I saw him guaranteeing her an ADA Officer slot as a junior in high school. There is no way that can happen.

    Being in the Guard is a good gig if she's sure that's what she wants, but she has to be realistic with herself in that she will only be given an enlisted MOS when she enlists, she may not ever qualify for SMP, and she might just have to serve her time in the Guard as an enlisted soldier. If she enlists in the Guard, she's not guaranteed anything but a trip to BCT and AIT for her MOS.
     
  8. QA1517

    QA1517 Member

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    I believe doing the split option (from what i have read) as stated qualifies one for the advanced rotc courses (MSIII and MSIV). This in turn qualifies you to do SMP and drill with a unit as a cadet officer in training.

    There are lots of programs involved in this scenario so my all means double check everything with everyone involved.

    I believe what the op has stated can be done with the exception of a 4 yr ROTC scholarship, it more than likely will be a GRFD scholarship.
     
  9. mbitr

    mbitr Member

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    Your girlfriend is putting the cart before the horse if she wants to be an officer. She needs to speak to the Recruiting Operations Officer for the ROTC battalion at the college she wants to attend before she enlists. The recruiter's job is to put bodies in the National Guard, not to make them officers. The ROO is the only one that can give her advice that isn't biased by a personal agenda.

    It sounds like he's enlisting her into an ADA MOS. This does not guarantee that she will be an ADA officer. It doesn't guarantee that she'll be an officer period. She's enlisting to be a NG enlisted soldier, that's it. As others have pointed out, she won't be a "real" Cadet during this time. She will be deployable like any other soldier. She will not be SMP until she contracts with ROTC. If she does not secure a contract with ROTC by her Junior year, then her commitment to the NG does not go away. She will be required to finish out her 6 years as a Guardsman.

    What exactly did the recruiter tell her about a scholarship? Unless I'm mistaken, recruiters have nothing to do with ROTC scholarships. If she gets offered a GRFD scholarship down the road, it will be from ROTC. Then she's locked into the National Guard when she commissions and cannot compete for active duty. If this is not what she wants, then she needs to seriously rethink enlisting until she talks to an ROO. She will not be able to receive an on-campus "regular" scholarship (the one that lets her go active duty) if she is in the National Guard.
     
  10. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    And when you talk to said girlfriend, remind her there is nor rush to sign on the dotted line regardless of what the recruiter tells her. In fact if he pushes her to sign it a good indication that he's running his agenda and not hers. She has plenty of time to thoroughly investigate what everyone here is saying.
     
  11. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Actually, since she is a junior in high school, don't the folks have to agree too since she is a minor? Maybe they need to do some research too.
     
  12. mbitr

    mbitr Member

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    To stress this point, you only get one bite at the apple when it comes to your military career. Once you've joined a certain branch in a certain MOS, you don't get a do-over. If she joins the National Guard and changes her mind about commissioning down the road, it is extremely, extremely difficult to transfer to the regular Army. Even if you pull it off, you will not get a wide selection of MOSs to choose from if the one you hold is not on the list of ones they need. When I went from USAR to active duty, I got three options. Two of those three were 11X and 18X. The Army is not something you want to rush in to, even if you're dead set on serving.
     
  13. ABF

    ABF Member

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    The Army Guard is a different animal. It's quite possible she is being earmarked by her state's ARNG for a local ADA unit (as an enlisted, delayed / split entry soldier). It may also be possible they assign her to one of the vacant ADA company grade officer slots for SMP (and later send her to appropriate branch school to fill that slot upon completion of MS III and MSIV year). It doesn't sound unrealistic. Now, that being said... she needs to do well in college / ROTC, or all bets are off!

    When I was in AROTC, we had lots of cadets (in fall of their MSIII year) go to local ARNG units looking to reserve their pilot slots. Several of the cadets did, in-fact, reserve pilot jobs with Guard units. The Guard was willing to take them on as SMP cadets and slotted them as (future) pilots. They wanted to be guaranteed pilots more than they wanted to be Regular Army officers (and maybe not a pilot).
     
  14. Ohio2015Parent

    Ohio2015Parent Member

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    Yes, under 18, Mom AND Dad must both sign.

    Split option to go to basic between junior/senior year of high school seems odd to me. DS had a friend do this and it worked out okay, but while DS attended BCT (after his freshman year of college) he was really taken back by how many 17 year old rising high school seniors were not at all ready for the reality of BCT. He saw almost half of them "fail" BCT by either physical injury due to not being in shape or emotionally not able to handle it. A few graduated, but most will either repeat it or were discharged. Not commenting on OP's girlfriend's readiness, just a personal observation on split op for high schoolers.

    The NG will vary by state on a lot of practices and proceedures, but as PIMA also pointed out -- who honestly can predict what the NGs much less the Army will need in 5 years? Who can predict what branching will look like in 5 years?

    IF my son's recruiter had made these promises to my DS I'd have called BS on him. Hope her parents can help with the research before she raises her right hand.
     
  15. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    If her end goal is to be a commissioned officer, she needs to tell that recruiter to go pound sand immediately and go find a local ROO. If her goal is to serve as an enlisted solider in the National Guard, she should continue on. The recruiter, unless he is the officer recruiter for that state guard, will NOT provide her with the best info. It's not his job (unless he's the officer recruiter, but then he wouldn't be talking to her anyways).

    Once again, if the recruiter has an ADA slot for her, she should tell him to go pound sand. I bet he sees that the state has an open ADA O slot and is using that to recruit her, but she won't even be filling that slot for over 5 years, so that is irrelevant. And MEPS isn't the qualifying source for O's.

    Last, but not least, if she's joining the Guard and getting ready to take state money, she needs to really look into the ramifications of that and this "ROTC Scholarship". If it's a national scholarship, she's about to find out some problems, and if she's hoping to go AD, she most likely won't be able to take state money. This recruiter is NOT the best source of info for this, the local ROO would be.

    A lot of 17 year olds rush into this without looking into everything because they just want to wear the uniform and figure the nitty-gritty out later. She needs to take the time now to square herself away before it's too late and she ends up unhappy. The ONLY thing she is guaranteed is what is written in that contract. Nothing else. No matter what that recruiter tells her, if it is not written in that contract, it DOES NOT exist. Can't stress that enough. I talked to soldiers when I was a PL during CTLT that were unhappy because they found out they weren't going to airborne or air assault (or whatever other school/course) because they found out ole Sarn't Recruiter Guy stretched the truth and didn't guarantee me a spot at BAC or AASLT, just meant I have the opportunity to go if my unit sent me, and now I'm just a leg logistician when I really wanna be a airborne Ranger. It happens, as unfortunate as it is.

    If you don't like what the contract says, don't sign it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2014
  16. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I am with both Ohio and Bull.

    I just don't get how anyone can promise a definitive career field 5 years out as a military member with a straight face knowing the budget cuts, on top of what happens academically in college. I mean that honestly. I am doing the bwahahaha are you sheeting me? You actually believe an E 7 can promise you come May 2019 that the Air Defense Artillery Officer position will be available? I doubt an O-10 can promise that, let alone a recruiter.

    Bullet in HS was gun ho AF, he dragged his folks to the recruiter. The recruiter wanted him to enlist. His folks said NO. He went AFROTC scholarship.

    A couple of things, at least from my anecdotal experience which is AF is this:
    1. Recruiters are enlisted, and typically have no clue about the officer path.

    2. They have recruitment goals for their job, signing on that dotted line equates to one more closer to his quota for the month.

    I hope the OP reads all of these posts, because from my perspective it seems like the recruiter might as well throw in the guarantee of being stationed in Hawaii too on top of her guaranteed career as an officer. I also forgot to say that they will guartee she will never be deployed.

    OBTW, if she goes to her recruiter, and feels the pound sand or bwahaha comment is off base. Have her hand him this website. I am more than happy to eat crow and be set straight. However, if as a recruiter he doesn't chime in to set my beliefs/opinion straight, that should be the biggest signal to her the bill of goods he is trying to sell.

    You are new here, but other posters will tell you I never take offense and always respect the facts.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2014
  17. GuardGun

    GuardGun New Member

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    Thanks for all your input guys, yes her father did sign to give consent. He will not tell his own daughter no, though neither one of them have done their research.

    I've tried to talk to her about it, she will not budge. She is dead set on this being the way for her to join 'as early as possible', thinking she will automatically be guaranteed an officer commission...

    Seems like she is getting screwed on the officer part, but this was expected as the recruiters need to fill NG slots, not certain positions.

    Just so you guys know, I'm well aware of the BS the recruiters pull, now I just need a message I can send her that will convince her to at least look more into this.
    With this RSP and split ship stuff, she sees it as an easy, quick way into the military.

    Can someone compile a post with the most valid points so I can email it to her? or something I can read off to her?
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2014
  18. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    If she hasn't signed anything yet, tell her to come here.

    If she still won't budge, it's her life. But know that she will most likely be disappointed, or learn to love her NG enlisted life (which is nothing to knock, they serve honorably as well).

    Wanting to serve as soon as possible is commendable, but holding out for a few months to research options is much better, the contract lasts for 8 years. I'd trade a few months for a happier 8 years any day of the week.
     
  19. GuardGun

    GuardGun New Member

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    You made a lot of good points, I just need to figure a way to compile the most important parts into a paragraph and send it to her to really read it. I can talk to her but reading drills it into her head more. I'm wanting to serve as well, just not how she is.
     
  20. -Bull-

    -Bull- Member

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    I've talked to some recruiters that I put in the same boat as Car Salesmen....they're that bad. lol :shake:

    Caveat- Not a knock on recruiters at all, they serve their purpose. I've also met some stellar recruiters, and one that tried for years to put me in the Guard ended up helping me on my path to ROTC (though he's now a officer recruiter for the state guard).
     

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